[Sbatenney]

Agree. Also, the problem is when it comes to attendance and ratings is the booking. When a company is struggling in those two aspects, it always comes down to the booking.

It's one thing for the product to be praised by the diehard fans of the company. Being praised by the diehards of your particular company is not difficult. WWE from 2010-2019 was mostly universally panned. However, even that era of WWE had some of it's diehards praising it (somehow, lol). But the casuals who left after the Attitude Era and even the Ruthless Aggression Era did not feel the same way as the diehards, and stayed away from WWE. Very similar to AEW now, where the fans that were watching a couple years ago, still have not come back because the current product is still not connecting with them. If it was, they'd be back.

AEW absolutely has the same problem right now that WWE had in the 2010's. The diehards (or 'sicko's as TK dubbed them) love the product, and that's great. But there's NO question it's not connecting with anyone else. It's not connecting with the casual fan. It's not connecting with the mainstream fan. It's not even connecting with the AEW fans who left and that used to watch every week when Dynamite was routinely doing 1 million or more. Those fans that were watching AEW 2-3 years ago have NOT come back. That is fact. We see it in the ratings every week because we're at the point that when they do 700K it's considered a "good" week. We see it in attendance as well. They did 1800 for their first Dynamite after All In, which is AEW's version of their 'Raw after WrestleMania.' That is SCARY bad for any company.

They need to stop worrying about the 'workrate' for a minute and zone in on the Creative in a big, big way.

I would argue that AEW's problems go deeper then the diehard fans from the WWE in the 2010s because at least they weren't as bad as some AEW diehards by acting like anyone saying anything bad about the product is just a hater and if they don't like it then they should watch it which is the problem with AEW, people don't like it and have stopped watching but the diehard refuse to see the problems and think everything Khan does is epic because he "saved" wrestling.

 

[Saintpat]

I would argue that AEW's problems go deeper then the diehard fans from the WWE in the 2010s because at least they weren't as bad as some AEW diehards by acting like anyone saying anything bad about the product is just a hater and if they don't like it then they should watch it which is the problem with AEW, people don't like it and have stopped watching but the diehard refuse to see the problems and think everything Khan does is epic because he "saved" wrestling.

Someone needs to start a promotion to offer an alternative to AEW. A challenger brand for No. 2 in NA.

Problem is, Tony knew ROH might still be a problem (leaching hardcore fans from his vanity project) even after he poached most of the talent with any value, so he bought it and took itout to deep sea and sunk it.

Hopefully GCW or MLW or someone can gather a bit of momentum and make a run.

 

[JacobHester9999]

Someone needs to start a promotion to offer an alternative to AEW. A challenger brand for No. 2 in NA.

That’s already NXT. Once NXT started to get close to AEW in the ratings, and even NXT doing some decent crowds starting off on CW- that’s where AEW should have saw that and changed their strategy.

I just don’t think there’s enough fans to support what Tony’s vision of AEW is. There has never been a demand for a big budget Indy/International style wrestling company. NJPW doesn’t even draw in Japan. Stardom doesn’t. So thinking these Japanese talents will make a difference in the US seems odd to me when their attendance in their home countries are low. Various Indys in the US are all mostly small (GCW, MLW, PWG, DEFY). CMLL is a mainstay in Mexico, but there’s not a demand for Lucha in the US.

I think the “Buffet of wrestling” idea that the Elite/Tony started AEW with just isn’t feasible long term. There aren’t enough wrestling fans. AEW got hot bc a lot of NXT Black and Gold fans switched to AEW. But that seems to have worn off. The lapsed fan that gave AEW a chance is either there to stay, or left. Where else are any new fans coming from?

Tony should absolutely lower ticket prices to nothing and see what that does for attendance. I think he’s in denial and doesn’t want to do it bc if he does and there’s still little uptick then he will have to admit nobody wants what he’s selling at any price

 

[Saintpat]

That’s already NXT. Once NXT started to get close to AEW in the ratings, and even NXT doing some decent crowds starting off on CW- that’s where AEW should have saw that and changed their strategy.

I just don’t think there’s enough fans to support what Tony’s vision of AEW is. There has never been a demand for a big budget Indy/International style wrestling company. NJPW doesn’t even draw in Japan. Stardom doesn’t. So thinking these Japanese talents will make a difference in the US seems odd to me when their attendance in their home countries are low. Various Indys in the US are all mostly small (GCW, MLW, PWG, DEFY). CMLL is a mainstay in Mexico, but there’s not a demand for Lucha in the US.

I think the “Buffet of wrestling” idea that the Elite/Tony started AEW with just isn’t feasible long term. There aren’t enough wrestling fans. AEW got hot bc a lot of NXT Black and Gold fans switched to AEW. But that seems to have worn off. The lapsed fan that gave AEW a chance is either there to stay, or left. Where else are any new fans coming from?

Tony should absolutely lower ticket prices to nothing and see what that does for attendance. I think he’s in denial and doesn’t want to do it bc if he does and there’s still little uptick then he will have to admit nobody wants what he’s selling at any price

Competition, they say, is good for everyone.

It was good for WWE when AEW came along. Made changes in booking to develop storylines that got people invested, Roman turned heel and the Bloodline saga was born, embraced Cody and Punk to bring them back ‘home‘ and strapped rockets to them and put them at the forefront, AEW got away from the indie-riffic Black and Gold to make it a true developmental where everyone has a character and something to do (or else they aren’t taking up screen time for someone who does), etc.

But when WWE got better, AEW didn’t rise to the competition. Stuck with the same playbook with heatless bangers, booking huge arenas for small shows, talent put on ice if they started to get over out of turn (and disappeared), hiring of lame WWE leftovers, embrace of New Japan and foreign ’stars’ most fans have never heard of, raising ticket prices to run off loyal fans, putting the spotlight on the Bucks/Perry even though they tank ratings every time they show up on TV … just digging in and doubling down on things that mostly aren’t working.

Competition is only good for everyone if all sides strive to improve. Tony books for the sickos and should plainly see there aren’t enough of them, but just leans farther into it like Jericho and the Bucks leaning into go-away heat.

 

[Sbatenney]

Someone needs to start a promotion to offer an alternative to AEW. A challenger brand for No. 2 in NA.

Problem is, Tony knew ROH might still be a problem (leaching hardcore fans from his vanity project) even after he poached most of the talent with any value, so he bought it and took itout to deep sea and sunk it.

Hopefully GCW or MLW or someone can gather a bit of momentum and make a run.

There is one that funnily enough WWE is helping build, it's TNA. Look at the last few PLEs that TNA have put on and the crowds have been packed. They have gained a lot of momentum and WWE has shine a spotlight on some of their stars too like Joe Hendry, Jordynn Grace and Zachary Wentz with wins on their shows and even the ones that haven't won, were made to look equal to NXT talent. Yes WWE are likely going to take Grace and Hendry before the end of next year but they have gotten a bump from the partnership.

 

[BillyGOAT]

Is this a private haters party or can anyone join in?

 

[Saintpat]

There is one that funnily enough WWE is helping build, it's TNA. Look at the last few PLEs that TNA have put on and the crowds have been packed. They have gained a lot of momentum and WWE has shine a spotlight on some of their stars too like Joe Hendry, Jordynn Grace and Zachary Wentz with wins on their shows and even the ones that haven't won, were made to look equal to NXT talent. Yes WWE are likely going to take Grace and Hendry before the end of next year but they have gotten a bump from the partnership.

Tony should hire whoever books venues for TNA because they seem to have the right size venues for what they’re doing.

At this point, with AEW still announcing 12K+ seat arenas for Dynamite and Collision/Rampage even in some cases, you have to wonder if Tony is saying ‘keep booking the big arenas’ for several months out because he somehow believes AEW is going to be hot enough to start filling them (or coming way closer than is reality right now). Otherwise, this is just insanity.

 

[Saintpat]

Is this a private haters party or can anyone join in?

We’ve clearly overbooked too large a thread for the number of posters, just like AEW. We need to lower the cost of admission to this topic to let the poors start posting again.

 

[Sbatenney]

Tony should hire whoever books venues for TNA because they seem to have the right size venues for what they’re doing.

At this point, with AEW still announcing 12K+ seat arenas for Dynamite and Collision/Rampage even in some cases, you have to wonder if Tony is saying ‘keep booking the big arenas’ for several months out because he somehow believes AEW is going to be hot enough to start filling them (or coming way closer than is reality right now). Otherwise, this is just insanity.

That would hurt his ego, it's the only reason why I see him still trying to book out some bigger arenas for the tv show. Hell Collision looked so much better when it had it stint in Texas, smaller arenas could really help in turning around AEW a lot.

The fact is though that booking smaller arenas would kinda be admitting that they aren't on the WWE's level, which to some diehards would be something they can't do. Not even talking about the ones here as they are tame compare to those on both sides on Twitter.

Before anyone says I am just shitting on AEW, no shit they aren't on WWE's level who has had over forty years to get to that level, it's not a bad thing really to admit, WWE is really too big to fail nowadays.

 

[Sbatenney]

We’ve clearly overbooked too large a thread for the number of posters, just like AEW. We need to lower the cost of admission to this topic to let the poors start posting again.

I would just ignore him, simply put anyone who he doesn't agree with is a "hater of AEW"

 

[BillyGOAT]

I would just ignore him, simply put anyone who he doesn't agree with is a "hater of AEW"

Not true at all 🥱

There’s a difference between criticising AEW as a fan of the product (which I do all of the time) and just hating on it. Are you a fan of AEW? Doesn’t seem like it from your post history.

 

[fabi1982]

Not true at all 🥱

There’s a difference between criticising AEW as a fan of the product (which I do all of the time) and just hating on it. Are you a fan of AEW? Doesn’t seem like it from your post history.

There is also the portion who critizise because AEW failed to deliver but still this portion wants to have a second promotion but also wants them to do better.

Your description of „hater“ is just not correct, young man.

 

[Sbatenney]

Not true at all 🥱

There’s a difference between criticising AEW as a fan of the product (which I do all of the time) and just hating on it. Are you a fan of AEW? Doesn’t seem like it from your post history.

Here's the thing, I am a fan of pro wrestling, I like things from all sides of pro wrestling. I just don't kiss AEW's ass and calls out stupid shit when I feel it happens. Currently AEW's product is meh at best to me, I was a fan of them during 2019-2022 but what I really dislike is the double standards, for example I have seen a number of people here shit on WWE for what they defend AEW do. I dislike the fanboys of AEW which they are many of here. I also hate the idea that some fanboys act like you can't like both AEW and WWE which has been pushed by the fucking owner of AEW of all people, Tony Khan.

 

[BillyGOAT]

There is also the portion who critizise because AEW failed to deliver but still this portion wants to have a second promotion but also wants them to do better.

Your description of „hater“ is just not correct, young man.

You’re right, there are no haters on this forum.

Here's the thing, I am a fan of pro wrestling, I like things from all sides of pro wrestling. I just don't kiss AEW's ass and calls out stupid shit when I feel it happens. Currently AEW's product is meh at best to me, I was a fan of them during 2019-2022 but what I really dislike is the double standards, for example I have seen a number of people here shit on WWE for what they defend AEW do. I dislike the fanboys of AEW which they are many of here. I also hate the idea that some fanboys act like you can't like both AEW and WWE which has been pushed by the fucking owner of AEW of all people, Tony Khan.

Yes or no will do, are you an AEW fan?

 

[Sbatenney]

Yes or no will do, are you an AEW fan?

I don't call myself a AEW, WWE, TNA etc fan, I am just a pro wrestling fan. They are parts of AEW that I like(for example, Timeless Toni Storm was great and Mariah May has carried that on, The Outrunners are awesome, I like the House of Black as well etc etc) and they are parts of AEW that I dislike.

 

[Saintpat]

I would just ignore him, simply put anyone who he doesn't agree with is a "hater of AEW"

Nah, @rich110991 is a good poster. He has a bit of a gimmick as the ‘everything AEW is great’ guy and he commits to that gimmick, but he’s also got a sense of humor and stirs the pot without going full troll.

Think of him as Daniel Garcia. It’s easy to focus on the dance and say he’s just a cheap-pop guy, but there’s more to him if you pay attention. He’s engaging and adds to the discussion. (Even if he is a sicko.)

 

[BillyGOAT]

Nah, @rich110991 is a good poster. He has a bit of a gimmick as the ‘everything AEW is great’ guy and he commits to that gimmick, but he’s also got a sense of humor and stirs the pot without going full troll.

Think of him as Daniel Garcia. It’s easy to focus on the dance and say he’s just a cheap-pop guy, but there’s more to him if you pay attention. He’s engaging and adds to the discussion. (Even if he is a sicko.)

Aha, I’ll take it but I’ve just got to point out that I definitely do not think “everything is great” in AEW. It’s just my preferred company - and yes, before some dweeb points it out, you can like both.

 

[LordPerucho]

Tony should hire whoever books venues for TNA because they seem to have the right size venues for what they’re doing.

At this point, with AEW still announcing 12K+ seat arenas for Dynamite and Collision/Rampage even in some cases, you have to wonder if Tony is saying ‘keep booking the big arenas’ for several months out because he somehow believes AEW is going to be hot enough to start filling them (or coming way closer than is reality right now). Otherwise, this is just insanity.

ECW sign guy Lou?

 

[D Z]

Good things about AEW losing lots of fans over time is less dysgenic mutants in the crowds and smarkery dying out.

 

[Saintpat]

Aha, I’ll take it but I’ve just got to point out that I definitely do not think “everything is great” in AEW. It’s just my preferred company - and yes, before some dweeb points it out, you can like both.

Oh, I realize that. I just said that it’s kind of your gimmick — from my perspective, it seems you will sometimes post from a very ‘everything is great’ point of view to get a rise out of the non-sickos, but your posts taken as a whole reveal you do find fault in things AEW/Tony does from time to time and say so.

So by the gimmick part, I was trying to say you come off that way sometimes and deliberately so, but you are a good poster who contributes beyond that. I just didn’t make my point very well.

Honestly, I do value you here and am glad you post. Nothing wrong with liking AEW, haha. I like some of it myself.