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There is no duty we so much underrate as... being
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A while back we learned that, apparently, Dolph Ziggler is to be given a new theme. Which is curious because if he continues on as a heel, his current theme is very suitable and it's difficult to see why he would need a change. Meanwhile, MVP has a new theme and judging by last night's Smackdown is being given a renewed push back to the heart of Smackdown's midcard, chasing the Intercontinental Championship. The announcers spoke of how MVP "needs this match" last night and that he needed to get himself back into the thick of things.

But much more important than the new theme and rumored new theme for each guy, is this Ziggler/Kaitlyn/Vickie triangle. Unless they pull some weak anticlimactic conclusion out, something's gotta give by the end of this storyline. And ever since August during the Kofi feud, they've been subtly giving Ziggler reasons for not exactly loving the way Vickie has aided him. In that one countout loss to Kofi, Ziggler seemed to want to conclude the match on his own terms, not understanding what Vickie was up to, and only belatedly celebrated once he realized what Vickie was doing. There's an obvious story to be told with Vickie claiming practically all credit for Ziggler's rise in Smackdown's midcard as Intercontinental Champion and Ziggler growing to resent it.

At the same time, MVP could truly use a facelift. The new music, the renewed push, the probable Survivor Series match with Ziggler are all good first steps but his face character ran dry last winter following his feud with The Miz. It may be time for him to go back to his roots as a heel.

So, the solution would be for Dolph and MVP to "double turn" in the near future, with Vickie's jealousy giving MVP an in to beating Ziggler (Vickie costs Ziggler the match to MVP). After the match, MVP and Vickie shake hands, perhaps MVP gives her a hug as he holds his Intercontinental Championship, and Kaitlyn runs down to check on Dolph. Suddenly, you've given everyone involved something of a fresh start.

Anyway, just wondered what others thought. There's a good chance none of this happens but there are some red flags popping up that say it just might. Perhaps.
 

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Celestial Messiah
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I like it. I could see this happening. The crowd really warmed up to Ziggler after his series with Danielson. plus MVP always excels as a heel.
 

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Thats not a bad idea, if only to turn MVP heel once again. I think Dolph could do quite well in the face role as his moveset is somewhat flashy and could get over in the face-in-peril role too.

Something like a double turn though has to be handled carefully as most of the viewing audience nowadays are kids and I'm not sure if they would quite get it straight away. With Austin and Bret, it was more organic and building for quite sometime before the eventual double turn.

MVP definitely needs something drastic now as I feel another year wasting away in obscurity with his current character will forever leave him as a.....what if?

Nonetheless, your idea would breathe some much needed life in MVP's character and give Dolph some direction with the IC title. I like.
 

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Asuka
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Ziggler doesn't have enough charisma to pull off a face turn. He's also the most irrelevant IC champion since Santino, there's no reason to care about him, so you might as well keep him heel, where it'll be easier for him. If he turns face, he's finished...like Eric Escobar, bar the release.

MVP could use a heel turn though. We all know that's where he's at his best.
 

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Kaityln turns Ziggler face while MVP goes heel on him would be a real interesting thing. Then we have more unique feuds on SD.

Things like Ziggler-Swagger could work and MVP-Mysterio or something else.
 

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There is no duty we so much underrate as... being
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Discussion Starter #7
I like it. I could see this happening. The crowd really warmed up to Ziggler after his series with Danielson. plus MVP always excels as a heel.
Thanks. I think his series with Bryan earned him a lot of fan support, too. He's more over right now than he's ever been before, judging by the recent PPV and TV crowds as well as recent house show reports.

Kaityln turns Ziggler face while MVP goes heel on him would be a real interesting thing. Then we have more unique feuds on SD.

Things like Ziggler-Swagger could work and MVP-Mysterio or something else.
This was something else I meant to get to in my original post. Smackdown in general needs a breath of fresh air in the midcard (and to an extent the main event as well!), and this would give us a bevy of "new" match-ups like MVP/Mysterio, MVP/Kofi, MVP/Chris Masters, MVP/Kaval, and Ziggler/Swagger, Ziggler/McIntyre, Ziggler/Rhodes, Ziggler/Del Rio and a bunch more.
 

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You're better than that Cole.
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So, the solution would be for Dolph and MVP to "double turn" in the near future, with Vickie's jealousy giving MVP an in to beating Ziggler (Vickie costs Ziggler the match to MVP). After the match, MVP and Vickie shake hands, perhaps MVP gives her a hug as he holds his Intercontinental Championship, and Kaitlyn runs down to check on Dolph. Suddenly, you've given everyone involved something of a fresh start.

Anyway, just wondered what others thought. There's a good chance none of this happens but there are some red flags popping up that say it just might. Perhaps.

This is an excellent thread and interesting, they should go to this route (more so of the MVP Heel turn) and personally I do see Ziggler probably can pull off a good face. He would be like John Morrison is now with the flashy moves to get the crowd on the edge of their seats etc. However I don't hope for a MVP/Vickie relationship, MVP don't need someone as his crutch to get booed out of the building as he proven that in 06-08 in his epic Heel run. But then again, people started to jump on Porter's side due to his awesome charisma and character so he probably would need Vickie for a short while.

Good thread, hope this Double Turn really does happen in reality.
 

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pretending to be nice
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There's nothing to lose.. neither are super-over in their current roles, might as well roll the dice and see what happens. Vickie is the key component in the turn. They could have an IC match in Survivor Series in which Vickie screws Ziggler and in the end celebrates with MVP. This would automatically make the crowd boo MVP, but I don't think they'll cheer Ziggler. That's why the feud needs to continue, and Ziggler needs to go against MVP and most importantly Vickie on his side, because that's who the crowd really hates.
 

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I like me
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Ziggler doesn't have enough charisma to pull off a face turn. He's also the most irrelevant IC champion since Santino, there's no reason to care about him, so you might as well keep him heel, where it'll be easier for him. If he turns face, he's finished...like Eric Escobar, bar the release.

MVP could use a heel turn though. We all know that's where he's at his best.
Problem is, if MVP was to go heel SOMEONE on the Smackdown roster would need to go face to maintain the balance. Especially with Undertaker and Mysterio (sort of) out, the active Smackdown face division at the moment consists of Edge, Big Show, Kofi Kingston and MVP in terms of guys who are somewhat relevant. Yeah, they are sort of building something with Kaval (albeit via losing streak, although who knows where it is going), Chris Masters is being used more in the absence of top faces and you have JTG as enhancement talent, but it's not enough. Ziggler doesn't have the charisma to work as a face, but could you also see Cody, Drew, Swagger, Del Rio or Reks doing it any better? If not, then as stale as he is, it is probably better to keep MVP face until at least Christian or Mysterio return to full wrestling schedules. Or mega push Curt Hawkins as a top face.
 

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Childish Gambino Is #1
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Love it. But agree with some others, that I don't know if Ziggler is ready to be a face.
But I'm definitely ready for MVP to turn. You bring up MVP's theme but is his new theme heelish?
It just doesn't feel heelish to me. It's in a lower pitch and everything, but the theme is saying that everyone's "ballin'".
 

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I must away and tend to my ravens
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This was something else I meant to get to in my original post. Smackdown in general needs a breath of fresh air in the midcard (and to an extent the main event as well!), and this would give us a bevy of "new" match-ups like MVP/Mysterio, MVP/Kofi, MVP/Chris Masters, MVP/Kaval, and Ziggler/Swagger, Ziggler/McIntyre, Ziggler/Rhodes, Ziggler/Del Rio and a bunch more.
Yet another thing you failed to note is how well placed Ziggler is for a credible face turn. As we all know, faces are brave, play fair, win clean and don't back down from a challenge whereas heels are always the opposite, in WWE at least. Dolph has, as a heel, gone after Batista and Kane (before he was booked as a world title contender again of course) and didn't back down from The Great Khali, their feud began from an open challenge into which Dolph brought a steel chair. Sure, not exactly kosher but hardly the act of a coward either, laying down and taking the loss would've been far more appropriate in those circumstances. He later beat Khali clean with the Sleeper.

What I'm getting at is that Dolph, if and when he eventually turns face, will not have to change everything about his style in order to make it work because he's already been shown the required face attitude. The way he was with Maria also adds to this although that probably won't be used due to her release.
 

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Keeping the red flag flying high
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Ziggler doesn't have enough charisma to pull off a face turn. He's also the most irrelevant IC champion since Santino, there's no reason to care about him, so you might as well keep him heel, where it'll be easier for him. If he turns face, he's finished...like Eric Escobar, bar the release.

MVP could use a heel turn though. We all know that's where he's at his best.
Pretty much agree, as much as I like Dolph currently, I don't really think he has the necessary charisma to pull of a succesful face turn yet. Although by the way they are booking this situatuion it looks almost certain that Ziggler will be getting the turn sooner rather than later unfortunately.

As for MVP i'm 110% behind him having a heel turn and reverting back to MVP of 2007/8.
 

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The User Without Fear
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Pyro™;9020641 said:
He's also the most irrelevant IC champion since Santino, there's no reason to care about him, so you might as well keep him heel, where it'll be easier for him. If he turns face, he's finished...like Eric Escobar, bar the release.
At least he's involved in an actual storyline unlike past IC champions, so he's not as irrelevant as you want to think.
 

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I've been saying MVP should go heel for about half a year and this sounds like a great way to do it. I can picture it in my head and I think MVP would get great heat if he sided with Vickie, not in any kind boyfriend-girlfriend situation, but just business. Perhaps some mixed tag matches with Dolph and MPV doing most of the work.
 

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Student of the game? I am the f***in' Game!!
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Thats 50/50. You can paint the scenario of Vickie as a liability to Ziggler but bottom line Vickie did help him win it after numerous chances at the IC title before. To have him cheat and abandon her for a younger associate, is a pretty low blow even for heel standards let alone for a coming of age face wrestler. This is more like Wolf eating wolf.

I do hope he does get a face run down the line but this just isn't a good scenario for it to happen. Relying solely on Vickies heat to get him over isn't good enough. Ask Eric Escobar(although was never given a chance to pan out). Especially the fact Ziggler has very little substance and depth to his character, admittedly and been portrayed as nothing more than foot note in the wwe. Its very hard to get by even WITH depth as a face in the WWE as is.

Given the situation, Ziggler would need a pivotal moment to signify change and let people know of a true strong coming of age for Dolph Ziggler. I suggest Dolph Ziggler forfeiting his IC title to Vickie to truly cleanse himself. We all saw what that title meant for him so to see a conflicted Dolph Ziggler voluntarily handing it over, would be a very sad crushing image all the while a huge leap in necessary character development.
 

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Ziggler doesn't have enough charisma to pull off a face turn. He's also the most irrelevant IC champion since Santino, there's no reason to care about him, so you might as well keep him heel, where it'll be easier for him. If he turns face, he's finished...like Eric Escobar, bar the release.

MVP could use a heel turn though. We all know that's where he's at his best.
Did you really just compare Ziggler to Eric Escobar? Good Lord. How about breaking away from Vickie being something that the fans care about and could get behind in a heartbeat?

I love the scenario the OP laid out. MVP is way overdue for a heel turn and I think Ziggler could be a very good face if he's given an opportunity to build to it a little bit instead of just coming out against heels to try and establish the turn.
 

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I won't even realize that Ziggler is a heel had he not been paired with Vickie. I know he's supposed to be heel but he doesn't send the message well enough. Turning him face might be good idea though, his movesets are so cheers-worthy. MVP turning heel will do wonders for him, though i don't mind either if he stays as a face.
 
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