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Here's another way of putting it:

I don't believe that the old woman in Chris Jericho's video heading into Full Gear was actually his aunt's friend from church. Jericho put together a silly video and paid an actress to say he's going to beat the shit out of Cody.

That's silly, but it's not offensive and doesn't hurt your show's credibility.

Orange Cassidy is really supposed to be a wrestler that doesn't care.
 

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And when does Orange Cassidy no-sell his ass beatings? He plays the too cool for this shit guy, then he gets his ass kicked. It isn’t like he’s pulling his Indy schtick out there fully. He tries, gets his ass kicked, and is done for the night.

I’ve not seen the Orange Cassidy that popped on my FaceBook timeline 2-3 years ago and pissed me off.
 

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Fair enough. It’s a matter of threshold. You believe Orange Cassidy is too much, but Golddust and Piper making out center stage of WrestleMania isn’t enough to draw away fans, because hindsight is 20/20 and Austin and Rock became stars in spite of all the shit around them.

Stop speaking in absolute truths. It’s off putting even for someone like me who understands and mostly agrees with you in principle. Nothing is set in stone.
 

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I love this response! You are actually getting worked by modern indy wrestlers and their new promotions and gimmicks, whilst actually agreeing with Jim Cornette/WWE/AE crowd that modern indy wrestlers are scum because they have abandoned or perverted true wrestling. The Buck’s, Joey Ryan etc are making you old school types into dumb marks and you don’t know it! GENIUS!
But when they leave twitter and make their precious BTE all about the fans who have criticisms, does that mean they've been worked by the fans?
 

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Cornette’s entire philosophical view is based on protecting kayfabe. It would be akin to Copperfield screaming and yelling at anyone and everyone that he does REAL magic, denouncing every magician who says the words “sleight of hand”, and crying about every America’s Got Talent magician who wins, claiming they’re shit for the business. They get viewers, but they aren’t billionaires like Copperfield. They should just stop performing “their way”, huh?

It’s not real, and no one has believed it to be real for decades. Kayfabe is dead, and with it, a lot of the “magic” of wrestling is dead with it. That’s why Cornette’s ideas won’t work in this day and age. Vince killed kayfabe knowing he had a monopoly on the biggest circus act in the game. Expose it as “entertainment”, and no one will dare waste their time on the lesser acts, no matter how “real” it may look.

I’d love to go back to when kayfabe was alive and well. Believing Hall and Nash just showed up to invade WCW, that Austin was legit getting one over on his boss week-in and weekend-out til he was forced to give him a chance at the title, that Mick Foley was genuinely crazy, etc.

It’s dead. There’s a reason the selling has died and most of it is spot-monkey, flip fests. You can’t unscramble the egg no matter how loud or often you scream it.
Kayfabe might be dead but one of the most entertaining performers in AEW is MJF who embrases Kayfabe constantly. Maybe he's onto something?
 

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Who said anyone wanted kayfabe to die? Read again, sparky. It’s still real to me!

MJF embraces kayfabe, and it didn’t make MLW must see tv. It hasn’t made HIM must-see tv. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t, but the notion that everyone protecting kayfabe will bring back viewers in droves is OPINION, not fact.

Now continue with your childish shit and enjoy this one response I gave you. I‘lol go back to having an adult convo with The Wood and remember that you’re not important enough to remember.
 

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Fair enough, @The Wood . I feel the same on Ospreay, even if I have only watched a single match. I only subscribed to New Japan World for Wrestle Kingdom this year and loved it for the “realism”. I’m one of those that still jokingly screams “It’s real to me!!”

Ibushi, I’ve watched a little more of through friends, and I enjoyed what I saw.

So, based on what you just said about Cornette’s magic analogy, which I admit I’ve heard him use a couple of times, then why isn’t MLW or NWA setting the world on fire ratings wise? Why is NXT taking a beating in the ratings on a regular basis that doesn’t involve the main roster drawing its loyal fanbase to the show? Keith Lee certainly “looks like a wrestler”, why aren’t millions flocking to see him?

Again, not trying to be a prick. Just curious to here your thoughts on it, because to me, fans don’t care about how “real” it looks or does not look. They care about the drama, and whether it makes sense, whether it’s rankings based or soap opera BS based.
WWE has killed kayfabe too. Why does every problem with AEW need to be compared to WWE as well? They both have many problems. But those wrestlers who live their characters, MJF, Ciampa, Scurll, Lesnar, Daniel Bryan, Matt Hardy, Miz, Velveteen Dream, Mox and PAC rarely break character and have been some of the most entertaining wrestlers of the last few years. This whole killing kayfabe thing is killing wrestling because wrestling needed to be fake, because that's what it is. Trying to be something it's not is making the wrestlers and the fans look dumb.
 

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And I go back to the AE. It sold like crazy, and I hated the shit. I remember thinking to myself how it was insulting my intelligence, and how all this soap opera BS would only work for so long. It was a cheap ratings grab that was not sustainable. Mae Young having a baby that turns out to be a fucking hand is far more insulting to me than Orange Cassidy putting his hands in his pockets in front of a paused reaction from Pac before he gets leveled with a stiff kick to the face.

But trust me, for the most part, I do understand and sympathize with your plight. Just don’t understand the need to constantly tear down something you don’t watch.
Everyone fucking hated the hand thing! Imagine if this forum was around then. It would have been dissed constantly and Garty would have lost it more than he does for the small amount of AEW hate.
 

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Who said anyone wanted kayfabe to die? Read again, sparky. It’s still real to me!

MJF embraces kayfabe, and it didn’t make MLW must see tv. It hasn’t made HIM must-see tv. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t, but the notion that everyone protecting kayfabe will bring back viewers in droves is OPINION, not fact.

Now continue with your childish shit and enjoy this one response I gave you. I‘lol go back to having an adult convo with The Wood and remember that you’re not important enough to remember.
It was a response to your magic analogy you twat. Wrestling killing itself for ten years means its going to take years of amazing television for wrestling to be must see TV again. There's a lot of other variables as well. Your adult argument is black and white and not taking anything into account at all.
 

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It was a response to your magic analogy you twat. Wrestling killing itself for ten years means its going to take years of amazing television for wrestling to be must see TV again. There's a lot of other variables as well. Your adult argument is black and white and not taking anything into account at all.
So, you think a boom is coming years down the road. And that bringing back kayfabe WILL save it.

What’s tomorrow’s Powerball numbers if you don’t mind me asking? I’ll split winnings, and we can start our own show, fully embracing kayfabe.
 

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So, you think a boom is coming years down the road. And that bringing back kayfabe WILL save it.

What’s tomorrow’s Powerball numbers if you don’t mind me asking? I’ll split winnings, and we can start our own show, fully embracing kayfabe.
Are you responding to me or someone else because that response was either intentionally putting words in my mouth or just flat out incorrect. If either AEW or WWE started putting on amazing television for a while then yeah, it would make sense that wrestling could become more popular. But neither show puts on anything worth watching (for non-hardcore wrestling fans of course). Now please, adult. Don't put words in my mouth in a lame smart ass attempt at a weak ass strawman.
 

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Wrestling killing itself for ten years means it could possibly take years of amazing television for wrestling to be must see TV again. Is that better? Talk about comprehension, for fucks sake. Do I have to make everything a bit easier for you? I literally teach comprehension to children and they'd be able to understand that everything on here is an opinion. This whole speaking in absolutes thing is a cop out, man. Your being an adult gimmick was fun while it lasted.
 

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Wrestling killing itself for ten years means it could possibly take years of amazing television for wrestling to be must see TV again. Is that better? Talk about comprehension, for fucks sake. Do I have to make everything a bit easier for you? I literally teach comprehension to children and they'd be able to understand that everything on here is an opinion. This whole speaking in absolutes thing is a cop out, man. Your being an adult gimmick was fun while it lasted.
Perhaps you could teach them emotional maturity, so that their written word one day conveys better than yours.
 

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And when does Orange Cassidy no-sell his ass beatings? He plays the too cool for this shit guy, then he gets his ass kicked. It isn’t like he’s pulling his Indy schtick out there fully. He tries, gets his ass kicked, and is done for the night.

I’ve not seen the Orange Cassidy that popped on my FaceBook timeline 2-3 years ago and pissed me off.
He no-sells the moment he puts his hands in his pockets. If you wouldn’t do it in a shoot with Brock Lesnar or Minoru Suzuki, don’t do it with anyone.
It makes it look like you don’t care about getting your ass kicke

Fair enough. It’s a matter of threshold. You believe Orange Cassidy is too much, but Golddust and Piper making out center stage of WrestleMania isn’t enough to draw away fans, because hindsight is 20/20 and Austin and Rock became stars in spite of all the shit around them.

Stop speaking in absolute truths. It’s off putting even for someone like me who understands and mostly agrees with you in principle. Nothing is set in stone.
I didn’t say that at all. For someone making for some pretty good discussion, you put a lot of words into mouths. I don’t have to like everything the WWF’s ever done to criticize AEW or tout the virtues of making this shit credible.

Cult03 is right: the absolute truths thing is a cop-out. I don’t even fully know what you mean by it. Yeah, my opinion is that kayfabe is important. I can back that up with evidence. I absolutely think it’s a truth, and that’s demonstrable.

If I said it’s unlikely that you’d get eaten by a giant radioactive chicken, is that speaking in an absolute truth? Should I avoid statements like that because nothing is set in stone?

So, you think a boom is coming years down the road. And that bringing back kayfabe WILL save it.

What’s tomorrow’s Powerball numbers if you don’t mind me asking? I’ll split winnings, and we can start our own show, fully embracing kayfabe.
No one said that either. It’s possible that a boom is impossible because wrestling is dead. It’s possible that the right people with the right attitude could re-spark it. I can tell you that it is much more likely with kayfabe than without.
 
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