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Discussion Starter #1
Back in the Attitude Era (Yes, I'm bringing the Attitude Era up, but for a different reason that 'PG SUX' or 'We need blood'), the storylines were much, much more complex than we get today. You'd have people often times in more than one feud or getting involved in another storyline. For example, at all times, Austin was Vince's main target, but at times the Corporation would get involved in mid card matches, such as when Bossman was feuding with Mankind over the Hardcore title, or when they were fighting DX.

In general it was quite frequent that people would find themselves in more than one feud, sometimes one would die down for a while only to eventually be rekindled, and you might see the same wrestler multiple times on the show even if they were a midcarder. WWE seemed to have good roles for everyone.

Fast forward to today's product.

Now WWE can't seem to write worth a crap. Every story arc seems completely self contained and there's rarely any overarching storylines, and when there's multiple people in a feud, the feud suffers as a whole.

Examples:
1. The Survivor Series where Cena, HBK, and HHH were feuding. It was a complete joke, and the wrestlers knew ahead of time they were going to betray each other anyway, which was laughed off after the fact. There was absolutely no reason to watch this match because WWE had no idea what to do with three men.

2. Wrestlemania 25 that saw Cena, Edge, and The Big Show put in a triple threat. The Big Show had no business being in this match, and it resulted in a strange 'love triangle' feud that ended up going nowhere, had Cena act REALLY out of character (blackmailing Vickie, and he's supposed to be the FACE?!) and turned out to be a massive letdown.

3. See: Any tag team feud. The most action we get is the wrestlers cutting a mildly threatening promo against each other and mostly pointless and random tag title matches, and the occasional break-up angle which lasts maybe a month.

And now for the current example which is the reason I've made this thread...

4. Wade Barrett vs Randy Orton with Cena as the special guest referee. It's not a triple threat, but there's a HUGE problem here. The focus is mostly on Wade Barrett and Cena, and if Cena will help him win the match or not. They make it seem like the result entirely hinges on Cena screwing Orton or not, as if there was no question Orton could beat him clean. This takes out a lot of suspense in the wrestling itself if it all comes down to Cena anyway and it makes Barrett look like shit by default. Plus, Orton is left out to dry, with no real story arc here. He seems like a background character -because- we aren't asking if Orton can beat Barrett. WWE is missing a huge opportunity by keeping it between Cena and Barrett, and having little to no Orton and Barrett interaction. It's disgraceful, and the WWE writers are gimping Orton's title run by making it seem as if Cena is the only thing that matters, if he's fired or not, blah blah blah. I want to see Orton be more active in this feud and focus on his rivalry with Barrett! How hard is that to write?!

It's like they get these feuds out of a template book or something and just don't seem to care. Why can't WWE have overarching storylines or angles that seem fed-wide? Why can't they even focus on more than 2 people in a storyline? I wanna know what happened to their writers from the Attitude Era. Because beneath all of the blood and shock angles they actually had stories with imagination and thought that made their 'wrestling world' feel somewhat real.
 

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I think it is rather unfair when all they do is provide copy for Vince McMahon. They are most likely capable of doing it.
 

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Celestial Messiah
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They were more complex, but they also were fucking retarded and didnt make a lick of sense. The Higher Power storyline for example, is a picture perfect example of stupidity in motion.

This is fucking wrestling, you dont need 70 billion swerves to be good. The absolute best storylines are the ones that build on real human emotion. Why cant it just be two guys who want to kill each other? Like Austin vs Bret. Austin represented anarchy, and Bret thought he was the good clean honest man the crowd was turning on and abandoning. Or Eddie vs JBL. Or Jericho vs Shawn. Or Punk vs Hardy.

Building off real human problems and emotions, thats good wrestling.
 

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DAVID OTUNGA's Personal Assistant
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no to completely defend it, but you're also talking about a time where there were no brand extensions. you had 60-70 some wrestlers on the same shows, showing up 2 times a week, so there was a lot more room to do something.

its kinda hard to write the same styled arc when you're dealing with a 30-35 wrestler roster, with at least 10 of those being general jobbers not worth much, and you have a PPV every 3 weeks, with only one weekly show that matters (as superstars doesn't count, and people are only on the raw or smackdown brands)

i don't see this being the writers fault.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
They were more complex, but they also were fucking retarded and didnt make a lick of sense. The Higher Power storyline for example, is a picture perfect example of stupidity in motion.

Counterexample: The Rock's 2nd heel turn. They actually pre-planned the whole thing even though it at first looked like The Rock and Vince were enemies, there were little things that if you looked back after it happened they made sense, such as Bossman losing to Rock almost instantly.

Swerves are not bad! As long as they have some sort of structure and not just a swerve for the sake of a swerve. Vince McMahon knew how to take Russo's best stuff and turn it into a good storyline. It was when Russo was in WCW he got the bad rap he did and so did 'swerve' storylines.

That's just how I feel anyway.
 

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They were more complex, but they also were fucking retarded and didnt make a lick of sense. The Higher Power storyline for example, is a picture perfect example of stupidity in motion.
This.

Russo just can't keep things simple. I remember one time, they had the New Age Outlaws try and win the single titles. They had Road Dogg go the Hardcore Title and Billy Gunn go for the IC Title. Yet one way or another, he felt the need to swap them so that now Road Dogg went after the IC Title and Gunn went after the Hardcore Title.
 

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The writers are probably told to keep it simple since the WWE audience will buy anything.

They not only happily eat the garbage fed to them...they ask for more.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
But the point I was trying to make was not swerves, but how everything would seem intertwined so that it would seem more real, rather than each arc being isolated from another. Just trying to say that 'complex' doesn't mean a million swerves.
 

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The Orton thing is fine. Why would we be asking if he CAN beat Barrett, when clearly the question is will Cena screw him? Orton could 'win' the match fair and square, keeping Wade down for the three, but THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE STORY is the question of whether John Cena will count the pin and get fired, or fuck Orton and make Barrett win to keep his job with the company. Does it literally have to be spelt out on the screen for that to make sense?

In conclusion- it's fucking IMPLIED that Orton can beat Barrett, because Barrett is forcing Cena to be ref and ensure he wins by any means necessary.
 

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I felt they used to do a decent job except the early part of the anonymous general manager and Nexus angles when they really weren't thinking more than a week in advance how the storyline would unfold.

But basically - during the attitude era everyone was in a life-or-death scenario to achieve maximum quality results and it's simply not realistic to be working under that kind of pressure forever. I know I wouldn't in my job.

By the way, the writers of the Simpsons are geniuses when it comes to intertwined storylines. That Trilogy of Error episode was amazingly scripted.
 

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The writers are probably told to keep it simple since the WWE audience will buy anything.

They not only happily eat the garbage fed to them...they ask for more.
Kevin Dun, Executive Producer believes that the average viewer can remember three things at the end of each programme. Hence yeah they do keep it simple.
 

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Kevin Dun, Executive Producer believes that the average viewer can remember three things at the end of each programme. Hence yeah they do keep it simple.
Its not just Kevin Dun. Its anyone that has studied any basic psychology. Or looked at Millers law. (the 7 +/-2 theory) which for average children becomes 5 +/- 2 so to go for the lowest dumbest audience which the WWE aims for the number is 3. So they know even there most slow minded viewer will remember the main points of the story. Thats why on TV you get replay after replay of what they want you to remember.
 

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Its not just Kevin Dun. Its anyone that has studied any basic psychology. Or looked at Millers law. (the 7 +/-2 theory) which for average children becomes 5 +/- 2 so to go for the lowest dumbest audience which the WWE aims for the number is 3. So they know even there most slow minded viewer will remember the main points of the story. Thats why on TV you get replay after replay of what they want you to remember.
Where did I say it was just Kevin Dunn?

Anyway too bad Vince Russo never did basic psychology.
 

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Where did I say it was just Kevin Dunn?

Anyway too bad Vince Russo never did basic psychology.
:confused: :confused: I was adding too your point genius.
 

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I know but I did say Dunn came up with it or it was his original concept.
Did i say you did?

Or did i just add where the theory comes from and the reasons behind using it.
 

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I agree with the TC, I'm watching through 1998 currently and I do have the sense that the storylines are quite well thought out and intricate compared to today's product.

As an example, in the buildup to Summerslam '98, over numerous Raw's they had situations where it was made ambiguous whether the Undertaker was siding with his brother Kane. Then Vince would play the role of Devil's advocate to Austin, saying they were in league, yet Undertaker would deny this and actually assault Vince on being approached with the question, 'friend or foe' (for making business decisions to make Austin lose). It was really all quite well built up.

On reflection there has been a whole continuous flow of battles throughout 1998, with the constant of McMahon as antagonist to Austin.
 

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This thread is bullshit.

Nexus is involved in a roster wide storyline, in which it has the Cena feud, Orton feud and maybe the Taker feud once he gets back all packed in one. It also has the SmackDown uprising and it could have the Daniel Bryan/Darren Young rebellion story.

Oh, and then there is the whole 'bigger picture' shiz.
 
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