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Discussion Starter #1
Another confirmation that Autsin/Hogan was never in the book for that event.

I'm just wondering where did the whole "Neither Austin or Hogan wanted to do the job, so they went with Rock/Hogan" came from.



Anyways, here is the vid:
 

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Steve has admitted himself about many people he didn’t want to work with or put over. He just conveniently doesn’t remember the details, when it comes to explaining why...

So it’s not that much of a stretch to think he didn’t want to put Hogan over. I don’t know if that is a true story or not though. But it’s believable.
 

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Heel Austin vs babyface HHH returning from injury would've worked and would've been a much bigger deal than Jericho/HHH.
 

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The narrative that Austin/Hogan was the original idea for Mania X8 never made sense imo.

The Stone Cold character was dead after Mania X7, there was absolutely nothing you could do about it. They fucking killed it. Anyway, according to many sources, it’s well known that the idea of Rock/Hogan was pitched like a year prior.

Rock was the obvious choice in 2002 as he was already bigger than the company itself at this point (Mainstream wise) and was by far the most popular superstar on the roster. Plus, Rock was probably at his in-ring peak : he carried Hogan in a way Austin couldn’t never do. Thank god they stick with the original plan.

Looking back it’s a shame Rock/Hogan didn’t main-event Mania X8, this would have gone from a decent Mania to an all time great Mania, but of course, it had to be all about Triple H.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Steve has admitted himself about many people he didn’t want to work with or put over. He just conveniently doesn’t remember the details, when it comes to explaining why...

So it’s not that much of a stretch to think he didn’t want to put Hogan over. I don’t know if that is a true story or not though. But it’s believable.
Steve said did it in his docu' DVD, when the nwo first came in he wanted to work with Hogan, but they gave him Scott Hall, and he was upset about it. The story you're referring to happened in 2005, AFTER he retired. I'm talking about WM 18 here..
 

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Austin didn't want to work with Hogan. He got Scott Hall because it was well known that neither Austin or Hogan would put the other over.

It suits some people like to push the idea that Rock was more popular and a bigger star than Austin during the AE,but it's just not true.
 

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It suits some people like to push the idea that Rock was more popular and a bigger star than Austin during the AE,but it's just not true.
Most popular superstar from mid 97 to mid 99 : Stone Cold

Most popular superstar from mid 99 to 03: The Rock

From the time they were both in the company, Rock was the bigger star for longer, but Austin was the bigger star at a more critical time.

If we look strictly during the Attitude Era timeframe (late 97 to Wrestlemania 17), then it’s probably 50/50.
 

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Austin didn't want to work with Hogan. He got Scott Hall because it was well known that neither Austin or Hogan would put the other over.

It suits some people like to push the idea that Rock was more popular and a bigger star than Austin during the AE,but it's just not true.
That narrative didn't make any sense to me. If Hogan was hellbent on not putting Austin over, why would he put over the Rock at WM X8 then?
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Austin didn't want to work with Hogan. He got Scott Hall because it was well known that neither Austin or Hogan would put the other over.

It suits some people like to push the idea that Rock was more popular and a bigger star than Austin during the AE,but it's just not true.
Then why did he said in his DVD that "With all due respect to Scott Hall, Hogan is the guy that I needed to work with" If he had no intention of working with the guy?...and If you think at that point Hogan had any backstage political power then you're outta your mind. The guy was happy for just being with the company after the wars. His win over HHH aside, he lost every major match in 2002. He even lost to rookie Brock by a bearhug.

JR just confirmed that they had no plans for Austin, and mainly because he wanted to switch back to being a babyface after Vengeance. Rock said that him and Hogan was booked in December of 2001, that's the same month the nwo signed with the company. Nash and Hall both said that Rock/Hogan was always the plan. In 2012, Wade Keller asked Steve Austin straight up whether that match was supposed to happen at WM 18, and Austin responded with "was never in the book".

That's one of those ancient IWC rumors that Meltzer(probably) started years ago...they never agreed on the finish so they went with Rock. Total BS.


That narrative didn't make any sense to me. If Hogan was hellbent on not putting Austin over, why would he put over the Rock at WM X8 then?
Hogan had no backstage power at that time. If they told him to put Earl Hepner over he would've done it with a smile. He was just happy to be back in the WWE.
 

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Hahaha, that’s just not true. Hogan has always had power and known how to play the game. Hogan was not going to lose to the star who replaced him. He would lose to the guy who came after that. Rock was also fixing to leave for a promotional tour or something. Hogan babyfaced himself in those segments with Rock because he saw the writing on the wall with the nWo and needed new allies. It’s all about positioning.

Hogan got something out of putting over Rock. He looks like a team player and Rock wasn’t going to stop Hogan from babyfacing himself. Austin wouldn’t have gone with that. His promos would have diced Hogan — Old Man Terry hanging out with the cool kids, but Austin 3:16 outside Hulkamania and he’s not going to let that Walrus bar moustache into his company. Rock was selling the epicness of Hogan.
 

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The Austin/Hogan debacle was scheduled for WM22, not WM18..
Hogan did show up on a RAW in 2005 asking the crowd if they’d like to see Hogan vs Austin.
I remember hearing it from Austin in a podcast I think where he mentioned that they threw that idea to him but he was already retired and didn’t wanna come out of retirement just to argue with Hogan about the finish. Austin himself said that the main reason his frustration started in 2002 was WM18, cause they paired Rock/Hogan and settled him with Scott Hall.
So yeah, WM18 was Rock/Hogan from the start, if anyone was paying attention to the booking the months prior you’d see it coming a mile away, I mean Rock pinned Austin at Survivor Series and this “ending” both WCW and ECW, hell even the way they welcomed the Rock back in 01 after his hiatus was a clear enough sign that they’re putting all the eggs in his basket from there on

Heel Austin vs babyface HHH returning from injury would've worked and would've been a much bigger deal than Jericho/HHH.
I disagree, by the end of 2001 people were sick of seeing Austin as a heel, it ran it’s course as evident by the double turn he and Vince had the night after Survivor Series, they both returned to their natural order.

Babyface Austin vs Triple h for the title, or a triple threat main event with Austin/Angle/HHH

Better yet, why not heel Undertaker as the champion vs Triple h,and Austin vs Flair? Since Rock got Hogan, why not have the other household 80s name vs Austin? It makes sense since Taker and HHH we’re having these constant staredowns since Triple h’s return

Jericho winning the belts really murked the situation here lol
 

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That 2001 really shot them in the foot. Triple H has always been a horrible babyface too. You've got to run with him though. I think Austin vs. Triple H would have made the most sense from a "big money" standpoint. Vince probably would have been involved having a spat with his son-in-law for not being there for the WWF, with Austin not trusting that the McMahon-Helmsley connection has completely eroded. I don't think the crowd was ever going to fully cheer Triple H against Austin, but there was sort of that buzz for the match given their history.

Alternatively, maybe Triple H should have done something else at Mania? It seems like a weird suggestion, but Rob Van Dam was probably more organically and authentically over. Austin vs. Van Dam and Triple H vs. Taker with Vince working Flair. That's beginning to look more like Mania. You could have done Vince & Taker vs. Triple H & Flair if you really wanted to. Or plugged Kurt Angle somewhere as a surrogate for Vince. Taker vs. Triple H and Angle vs. Flair at Mania could have really been something, actually. Or Angle/Trips if you want to keep Taker/Flair the same.
 

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I think the Invasion storyline was biggest mistake when WWE couldn't buyout former WCW top stars contract like Sting, Goldberg,NwO trio. I assume if WWE could do that, Austin will turn back to face during Invasion storyline and there's a lot option there. I think Booker T is reliable option for me, the story was there like Booker cost Austin at Vengeance.
 

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I liked the Austin/Booker T feud a few months before that. Would have been nice to see that feud continue into WM 18. Would have beat the Edge/Booker T match which I believe was for a shampoo contract or something.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Hahaha, that’s just not true. Hogan has always had power and known how to play the game. Hogan was not going to lose to the star who replaced him. He would lose to the guy who came after that. Rock was also fixing to leave for a promotional tour or something. Hogan babyfaced himself in those segments with Rock because he saw the writing on the wall with the nWo and needed new allies. It’s all about positioning.

Hogan got something out of putting over Rock. He looks like a team player and Rock wasn’t going to stop Hogan from babyfacing himself. Austin wouldn’t have gone with that. His promos would have diced Hogan — Old Man Terry hanging out with the cool kids, but Austin 3:16 outside Hulkamania and he’s not going to let that Walrus bar moustache into his company. Rock was selling the epicness of Hogan.
Just....LOL.

If he had that much power, then why did he lose every major match in 2002(backlash aside)? He lost his 1st singles match clean against Rock, he lost the title to Taker just a month after he won it, he lost to HHH clean on smackdown, he lost to Angle clean at KOTR by submission(something that never happened through out his career...not as a babyface)...and then he lost to rookie Lesnar clean on smackdown(with the bearhug)...and in case you didn't know, he left the company that night on bad terms.

All this "Hogan baby-faced himself" crap is far from the truth. He acted the same way when he was with the nwo in WCW...and simply put, that night in Toronto, if you lined up, Rock, Austin, and RVD, against him they would've all gotten booed. Next to Bret Hart, he's the most popular wrestler in Canada.



I liked the Austin/Booker T feud a few months before that. Would have been nice to see that feud continue into WM 18. Would have beat the Edge/Booker T match which I believe was for a shampoo contract or something.

The thing with Booker was, even though he was killing it as a performer, the creative messed him up pretty bad. They turned him into a comedy act. From Summerslam '01 to WM 18, Booker T lost all his PPV matches. It's hard to take him seriously going against Austin, even though their feud was pretty awesome.





I liked the Austin/Booker T feud a few months before that. Would have been nice to see that feud continue into WM 18. Would have beat the Edge/Booker T match which I believe was for a shampoo contract or something.

The thing with Booker was, even though he was killing it as a performer, the creative messed him up pretty bad. They turned him into a comedy act. From Summerslam '01 to WM 18, Booker T lost all his PPV matches. It's hard to take him seriously going against Austin, even though their feud was pretty awesome.
 

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Austin vs HHH or Austin & HHH vs Hall and Nash would've been a better alternative. I'd choose the latter, as the best result possible would have HHH turning on Austin, and leaving him for dead as the nWo beat him up to a bloody pulp and win. In turn, Hogan's loss and pandering to the crowd makes him lose favor with the nWo, justifying Hogan's face turn.

Jericho vs Angle for the WWF title should've been the penultimate match on the card. Jericho never pinned Angle to unify the belts, and Angle would have to win the Rumble to challenge Y2J. Play to the USA vs Canada post-9/11 rivalry, where Jericho denounces his US Citizenship in protest of fans booing him, whereas Angle becomes a pro-American babyface. However, considering Mania was held in Canada at the time, Jericho would enter to a roaring pop.
 

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I think the Invasion storyline was biggest mistake when WWE couldn't buyout former WCW top stars contract like Sting, Goldberg,NwO trio. I assume if WWE could do that, Austin will turn back to face during Invasion storyline and there's a lot option there. I think Booker T is reliable option for me, the story was there like Booker cost Austin at Vengeance.
They could buy out the contracts. The issue was whether or not they wanted to. If you pay such a big chunk of money for Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Hall, Sting and Flair, your home team gets fucking pissed. They didn’t think they were worth the money and didn’t want them there anyway. If you pay Goldberg $3 million, Austin is going to want $4 million. Triple H is going to want more. Taker is going to want more. Hell, Rock, Kurt Angle and Kane are going to want more. Chris Jericho is going to want more, not that he really had the leverage to get it. Guys like Bradshaw, Billy Gunn and Big Show would have wanted more, even if they weren’t going to get it, but you’d have them influencing the locker-room.

Vince probably feared a mutiny and was worried that half his talent would walk out and go and work for FOX or something. Or that it would end up costing more than the XFL. That’s why the guys who did have their contracts accepted cents on the dollar and were made to look like fucking jokes. Taker’s wife got to beat DDP.

I liked the Austin/Booker T feud a few months before that. Would have been nice to see that feud continue into WM 18. Would have beat the Edge/Booker T match which I believe was for a shampoo contract or something.
I liked Edge, but Edge vs. Booker T always felt weird. I got the feeling that they wanted to Edge to beat someone with “star power,” but they had beaten Booker T into the ground. Kurt Angle or Chris Jericho would have been better.

Just....LOL.

If he had that much power, then why did he lose every major match in 2002(backlash aside)? He lost his 1st singles match clean against Rock, he lost the title to Taker just a month after he won it, he lost to HHH clean on smackdown, he lost to Angle clean at KOTR by submission(something that never happened through out his career...not as a babyface)...and then he lost to rookie Lesnar clean on smackdown(with the bearhug)...and in case you didn't know, he left the company that night on bad terms.

All this "Hogan baby-faced himself" crap is far from the truth. He acted the same way when he was with the nwo in WCW...and simply put, that night in Toronto, if you lined up, Rock, Austin, and RVD, against him they would've all gotten booed. Next to Bret Hart, he's the most popular wrestler in Canada.
It’s not always about winning to Hogan. It’s about positioning. One of Hogan’s favorite moves in WCW was losing to a guy just as Nitro was going to come up to stiff competition or was otherwise going to struggle in ratings. Then he’d he get the belt back with the natural ebb and flow of things so he looked like the savior. He’d put himself on top if they were going to draw a massive house (especially if network executives were there) and if there was going to be 300 people, two dogs and three chickens, he’d make sure he wasn’t seen at the fucking building.

You say he lost every match but then gloss over he was the fucking champion. He also won belts with Edge. He lost to Rock and Taker, but Rock was leaving and a political play, as was Taker. Hogan wasn’t going to have a big run with the belt in 2002. He was going to win it and then drop it to someone with Vince’s ear that was already established and not going to hurt him politically.

Yes, Hogan put over Angle. What did that mean? How did that potentially hurt Hogan? And the thing with Brock, as you pointed out, DID piss off Hogan. They got him to do it with some bullshit story about him getting the win back, then they pulled the blanket out from under him. Hogan was so concerned about the business he was so keen to put over Brock...but only if he got to beat Brock when he was even older? Get real.

The losses that would get attention never happened on big PPV, outside of the blowjob from Rock. They all happened on TV, he was unwillingly to do one, a lot of them were to build political favors. He was not about to lose to Steve Austin at WrestleMania, SummerSlam or any other time. They had plenty of time to do the match. If not WrestleMania X8 than WrestleMania XIX. It could have used something. Losing to Austin meant he would concede there was a bigger star in wrestling than him. All those losses you mentioned were the star losing. Huge difference.

And no, Austin would have gotten cheered over Hogan. He would have eviscerated him on the mic, because he would have no problem doing that in order to heat himself up and make sure he was going to cheered. Austin was not going to stand in the ring and look around with Hogan. He would have kicked him in the gut, given him a Stunner and then done some mock Hogan posing. Hogan would try the puppy dog eyes, but Austin would have called him out as being a pathetic sap. Rock was going to stand there and smell the air as he was in the presence of an icon and let Hulk stand over him and crotch-chop.
 

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@The Wood I'm sorry, but Austin getting cheered over Hogan is a crackpot theory not even Alex Jones would believe, much less propagate. The nWo were so hot ever since Vince's poison promo revealed their debut (and return) that it would be highly unlikely that fans turn against their childhood hero Hulk Hogan making his heroic return to the WWF, despite being a heel at the time. Even in 2002, nostalgia was an important marketing factor.
 
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