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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read some of this posts about who WWE should contract and develop or sizes etc and this always bothers me ? Why dont most people here dislike guys that aren´t "big"?

I mean a lot of people dislike Rey,D-Bry,etc because of their size, its true that its hard to make them look legit vs bigger guys, but i always liked the small /medium guys like Shawn, Angle, Y2J, Benoit,etc..

So my 2 questions are why the hate versus small guys and how would you book a small guy to look credible against a bigger guy?
 

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Shawn Michaels is to me the perfect example of why the argument against smaller guys is wrong. He had one of the all time greatest rivalries with The Undertaker and was consistently one of the best in-ring workers of all time. His buddy Kevin Nash always talks about vanilla midgets but never mentions HBK as one of them when in theory he probably should. Some of the best workers have been small guys.
What would you prefer really? A smallish guy that is an excellent worker, great mic skills, charismatic, perfect showman OR a big guy, average worker, can't really get around the ring that fast, lacks a bit in the mic skills and charisma departments..
Someone like Eddie Guerrero was 10x the worker that Kevin Nash was, and he looked completely believable beating Brock Lesnar. Austin is a fairly small guy as well, one of the biggest draws of all time.
I'd say booking has a lot more to do with drawing power than size, not everyone has a big guy fetish like Vince.
 

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You compare guys like Punk and Bryan to guys like Angle, Benoit, HBK. Angle and HBK used to be JACKED in their prime. Angle used to have muscles sticking out of his neck n shoulders. Same with Benoit. HBK, if anyone remembers that bicep pose he used to do, you would see that his biceps were massive. Punk has close to no muscle in his body, n somewhat same with Bryan, yet we're supposed to believe they can beat guys like Cena n Lesnar? Its fuckin stupud. This is pro wrestling, its showbiz. Hit the fuckin gym.

Anyways, what can smaller guys do to believably match up to the bigger guys?

-Have a resilient underdog storyline like HBK or Rey Mysterio. This is pro wrestling, we love stuff like this.
-Legit background, like Angle, Benoit, Eddie G. or even someone like Ziggler.
-Unique offense, like Rey or D-Bryan.
-Carry yourself like a dangerous guys, Punk is real good at this, HBK used to be real good at this.
-Put on some fuckin muscle! If your arms look like twigs, it aint gon work.

I'm not the type of guy that says "Only body builders should be on there", but this is a make believe sport. Theres got to be sumthin about the smaller guy that makes a match against a bigger guy even. For Angle, it was his superb wrestling. For Mysterio, it was his quickness and high flying. For HBK, it was his resilience n how he carried himself.
 

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Punk has close to no muscle in his body, n somewhat same with Bryan, yet we're supposed to believe they can beat guys like Cena n Lesnar? Its fuckin stupud. This is pro wrestling, its showbiz. Hit the fuckin gym.
i have stood next to bryan and he is built, short but built nonetheless



shawn in his prime weighed less than bryan does now i would bet, he looks 185 max there

 

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The small guy defence for HBK doesn't really work because when he made it really big, he WAS big in terms of muscle size.

When people say they want "big" wrestlers, they aren't necessarily talking about height. They got us used to men that looked like hulks from the 80's onwards and when you look at the lists of GOATs for people even on this forum, you'll be hard pressed to find a single list that has more cruiserweights than heavyweights.
 

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The small guy defence for HBK doesn't really work because when he made it really big, he WAS big in terms of muscle size.
its all relative though, shawn was a much smaller guy than nash, sid, undertaker, vader, crush, warrior, bulldog, hogan, razor, andre, studd etc people who he either faced or replaced during that time period. shawn was giving up far more size going against nash/crush/sid/vader than bryan or punk are giving up going against cena or even lesnar. people talk about lesnar being a huge monster but he is the ultimate warriors size
 

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its all relative though, shawn was a much smaller guy than nash, sid, undertaker, vader, crush, warrior, bulldog, hogan, razor, andre, studd etc people who he either faced or replaced during that time period. shawn was giving up far more size going against nash/crush/sid/vader than bryan or punk are giving up going against cena or even lesnar. people talk about lesnar being a huge monster but he is the ultimate warriors size
Yup. And he didn't really make all the way to the top till after most of those guys were either done, or at the tail end of their careers (at least in the WWE).
 

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Here's the real issue. It doesn't matter how big or muscular a guy is, it's how he appears. It's why they get away with calling Big E a big guy when he's really under 6 feet tall.

The other issue is that that HBK had Jim Ross and Vince McMahon calling his matches. 2 guys who were great at emphasizing the issues in a match and the strengths and weaknesses of the competitors. They throw in that Bryan is a submission specialist now and again, but it's no use when he isn't winning big matches by submission.

Size no longer matters in WWE, Khali is squashed often enough as are Barrett, McIntyre, Brodus, Tensai and Swagger. Guys who are all in the modern 'big man' range of 6'6'' plus. They would rather put over guys with a good appearance, which doesn't mean the most ripped guys in the company.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes Angle,Hbk ,Benoit and the others were jacked ,but most of the roster back in the day had extra help ( if u know what i mean ) still do you guys think they can make skinny guys like Ziggler,Cody Rhodes etc into real main event class? I made this post because i wondered if i had chosen to try for wrestling career why would most of the people picks on the small guys ( im the same size of Rey xD)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
he is ripped but still skinny ripped and not comparable with the muscles that Angle or HBK had :/
 

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I'd say Ziggler looks pretty close to Michaels in physique
 

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Shawn Michaels is to me the perfect example of why the argument against smaller guys is wrong. He had one of the all time greatest rivalries with The Undertaker and was consistently one of the best in-ring workers of all time. His buddy Kevin Nash always talks about vanilla midgets but never mentions HBK as one of them when in theory he probably should. Some of the best workers have been small guys.
What would you prefer really? A smallish guy that is an excellent worker, great mic skills, charismatic, perfect showman OR a big guy, average worker, can't really get around the ring that fast, lacks a bit in the mic skills and charisma departments..
Someone like Eddie Guerrero was 10x the worker that Kevin Nash was, and he looked completely believable beating Brock Lesnar. Austin is a fairly small guy as well, one of the biggest draws of all time.
I'd say booking has a lot more to do with drawing power than size, not everyone has a big guy fetish like Vince.
Shawn Michaels is to me the perfect example why smaller guys in the main event are the cancer.
People talk "but but but Shawn was in a main event" but people forget that WWE was in a terrible state just because he was main eventer, WWE champion and the face of the company beating clean guys like Diesel and Vader thus insulting the intelligence of the fans.
Babyface Shawn was back in the day almost hated as John Cena and only loved by horny girls and MILFs. He earned later the respect of the fans by being a veteran and coming back from a career ending injury.

Kevin Nash not mentioning Shawn Michaels is not because HBK is the exception to the rule, it's because he is his friend and he doesn't want to insult him
 

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Shawn Michaels is to me the perfect example of why the argument against smaller guys is wrong. He had one of the all time greatest rivalries with The Undertaker and was consistently one of the best in-ring workers of all time. His buddy Kevin Nash always talks about vanilla midgets but never mentions HBK as one of them when in theory he probably should. Some of the best workers have been small guys.
What would you prefer really? A smallish guy that is an excellent worker, great mic skills, charismatic, perfect showman OR a big guy, average worker, can't really get around the ring that fast, lacks a bit in the mic skills and charisma departments..
Someone like Eddie Guerrero was 10x the worker that Kevin Nash was, and he looked completely believable beating Brock Lesnar. Austin is a fairly small guy as well, one of the biggest draws of all time.
I'd say booking has a lot more to do with drawing power than size, not everyone has a big guy fetish like Vince.
Thats an incredibly skewed argument. A super great overall small guy or an average at best big guy?

How about vs a charismatic, athletic, intimidating and cool big guy with decent mic skills who gets your adrenaline going when he kicks peoples asses and his only real "drawback" is that he doesn't chain wrestle or jump off ths top rope? Don't undersell big dudes because they don't do little guy stuff as often or as well. They're supposed to be different, not the same thing in a bigger package.
 

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Yeah Bryan has pretty big muscles but he,s short as hell. Shawn was 180 cm, Kurt 182 and both were jacked. I wouldnt call that small. Bryan is 173 cm and has some muscles. Punk is 182 I believe and would look legit if he had some freaking size but the guy is skinny as hell. Isnt Punk even taller then Cena? So you see the difference muscles make? Big E is 180 cm yet looks like a legit monster.

You dont have to be slow just because your built. Its all in the way you workout. Look at a guy like Neville that is only like 172 cm yet he looks more legit then Punk because he,s built and he,s more atlethic then anyone on the roster.
 

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Regardless of his stature, I can't get behind him as a main eventer or Face of the WWE due to his character and the way he presents himself, once you get past the solid in ring work, he is very average on the mic, can't traverse different emotions to suit the conversation/angle, half the time he's corpsing and it's just depressing.

Someone like Eddie Guerrero, his stature doesn't come into play or cross peoples minds due to his larger than life-esque 'performance'.
 
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Skinny guys like Dolph Ziggler?



Stick insect ain't he...
The other thing Shawn had going for him was a larger than life, rock-star personality both outside and inside the ring that drew people to him --- something that Ziggler and Bryan lack. Even Angle and Punk have some of that level of charm. But not Ziggler and Bryan.

It's really hard to explain how this works, because there's no set formula to it. Some guys just have a magnetism about them and Shawn definitely has that. Bryan and Ziggler are both good at what they do but not good enough.

Ziggler could do well with decent booking, but he'll never be HBK because he just does not have that kind of magnetic charm that HBK had at the same point in his career. It can't be taught either. You either have it, or you don't.
 

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Who gives a fuck about size? Entertainment should come first. Watch how Taz was presented in ECW and you'll see why it worked when he went toe to toe with Bam Bam Bigelow. It has a lot to do with attitude and booking.



When it comes to big guys, I'd rather watch Antonio Cesaro, Big E. Langston, or Roman Reigns (he's grown on me) than Kevin Nash. I can appreciate a guy with size if he doesn't put me to sleep and it's no different with smaller performers. I think we've reached a point where there should be a balance. I hope this talk about size dies in the near future, as I think it's one of the dumbest things a fan can complain about.
 
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