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Cena vs. Edge should have definitely been at WrestleMania 22. Kurt Angle should have won the 2006 Royal Rumble for the World Heavyweight Championship (Batista had to vacate it due to injury). Either that or Triple H could have won and built up something with Rey on SmackDown, could his ego have handled the change.
 

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Interesting. Please show some metrics along with sources corresponding to your claims. What numbers did he drew?
Numbers are readily available online. Unforgiven 2006 vs Edge was sellout, GAB vs Lashley was sellout.

2-3 years previous they were struggling to sell tickets to major ppvs like Survivor Series never mind b shows like taboo Tuesday that were drawing 1/4 houses.

Not really. He was getting booed out of every building he performed in. WWE were losing money on PPVs as less and less people were buying, so they increased the price to give the illusion that his PPVs were making money.
he was booed by hardcore adult males. He was massively over with other groups like older men, kids, women. Never got booed at houseshows (I was at one in 2013 where fans were chanting for Cena before show even started and all through the early matches).

we saw at rumble 2008 the hardcore males didn't really hate him..

wwe never lost money on ppvs. They wouldn't have started an exceptionally expensive network which was sold on back of ppv events if they were losing money on initial model. They were still selling 4 million ppv buys annually up to 2013 even during the biggest recession to hit the US since the 1930s.

WWE was systematically losing audience since the son-in-law was the top guy.
WWE starting losing their audience in 2001. Wasn't anything to do with HHH who was off injured at time. Was all down to Austins two botched heel turns. After that nobody could stop slide.

Cena taking over didn't stop hemmorrage or reverse the systemic decrements in WWE's viewership. If you are so confident, please provide some metrics.
Raw average in 2000 was 5.9
2001 average dropped to 4.6
2002 average dropped to 4
2003 average dropped to 3.8
2004 average dropped to 3.7
2005 average rose to 3.8
2006 average rose to 3.9

So there was 5 years of drops and that stopped in 2005 when Cena was moved to Raw. By 2009 with far more homes having cable raws audience ballooned to boom era numbers, over 5 million on average watching (3 million on average tuned in for Wrestlemania 19 season as a comparison with Vince, Hogan, rock and Austin the main guys promoted)


Hogan, yes I agree. Rock and Austin, no. When the audience decreased in regards to Rock and Austin, neither of them were promoted as the FOTC or were the top guys.
audience dropped in 2001 when rock and Austin were the top guys. Attendance in April 2001 averaged 11,000 paid and November 2001, it was down to 6,000 with rock and Austin maineventing every raw and houseshow. Survivor Series 2001 drew 10,000 in a venue setup for 13,000 with rock and Austin in mainevent. 98-2000 that show sell out in 5 minutes.

it wasn't rock and Austins fault business fell under their watch it was terrible creative. By time HHH came back and lesnar got pushed WWE was already in freefall.

The main person where everything was built around was Triple HGH and Brock Lesnar. Both proven to be flops. Rock comes back to face Cena and the numbers grew; not a coincidence. What happened when Rock left? Cena was the top guy again and the viewership continued to dwindle down.
first year rock returned in 2011 he had impact on viewership. Much less so in 2012 and again in 2013.

Last time Cena was champion and maineventing ppvs raw was averaging over 4 million viewers in summer of 2014, similar to what Rocks title run in 2013 averaged.

Bull sh*. Top merchandise history sellers of all time in this order --> Hogan (during the Hulkamania and nWo phases --> nWo merch sells to this very day), Austin, The Rock (Rock is still a strong merch mover even after he stopped wrestling), and Bullet Club. After them, it was Cena, Goldberg, Hardy Boyz, New Day, Sable, and Undertaker. I know because I used to know a guy in USA. A few years ago when Meltzer reported this horse sh* that Reigns was the biggest merch mover, I checked it with him and it was utter nonsense. At the time it was Cena, New Day and Goldberg were the top movers.
a guy in USA! How would they know who was biggest merch seller in WWE and how NJPW merch sold compared to WWE.

cena was blowing away Undertaker in merch sales back in 2004 as a mid card guy on SD trading wins with Carlito WWE SHOPZONE

he sold far far more in 2007-10 than 2004 as more people were attending shows and online sales became bigger deals. 2008 he passed Hogan to become #2 all time seller in calendar year. New Day, bullet club aren't close to Cena, WCW never had WWEs distribution network to sell merch so Cena outsold NWO yes. In 2017 with Cena as clear top merch seller WWE shopzone processed 820,000 orders.

The entire promotion was built around Reigns. Did you even listen to Punk's podcast? He was so intricately produced, protected against everyone and made to look like a bigger deal than he actually was. He was the FOTC, and he flopped because the audience rejected him. He was giving WM ME after ME while not delivering (the only guy who accomplished this feat aside from Reigns was Triple HGH). He sold jack squat, freakin Bayley and Sasha Banks sold more merch than him, his WM numbers were terrible compared to his predecessors. Him being gifted main events does not prove he was a draw. We are talking about a guy who the audience were so repelled by, they booed him for almost 20 minutes and asked him to "GO AWAY" for most of that time.
Reigns was pushed, he wasn't face of the company. The company never changed direction to build around reigns like they did Bruno, Hogan. Austin or Cena. WWE is still built in image of Cena even now.

His Wrestlemania numbers were terrible how? 32 sellout, 33 sellout, 34 sellout, 31 very close to sellout. Network subs rose each year too. I was at Wrestlemania 26 and it was nowhere near sellout for Shawn vs Taker mainevent and 4 months of Bret vs Vince program.
 

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Numbers are readily available online. Unforgiven 2006 vs Edge was sellout, GAB vs Lashley was sellout.

2-3 years previous they were struggling to sell tickets to major ppvs like Survivor Series never mind b shows like taboo Tuesday that were drawing 1/4 houses.



he was booed by hardcore adult males. He was massively over with other groups like older men, kids, women. Never got booed at houseshows (I was at one in 2013 where fans were chanting for Cena before show even started and all through the early matches).

we saw at rumble 2008 the hardcore males didn't really hate him..

wwe never lost money on ppvs. They wouldn't have started an exceptionally expensive network which was sold on back of ppv events if they were losing money on initial model. They were still selling 4 million ppv buys annually up to 2013 even during the biggest recession to hit the US since the 1930s.



WWE starting losing their audience in 2001. Wasn't anything to do with HHH who was off injured at time. Was all down to Austins two botched heel turns. After that nobody could stop slide.



Raw average in 2000 was 5.9
2001 average dropped to 4.6
2002 average dropped to 4
2003 average dropped to 3.8
2004 average dropped to 3.7
2005 average rose to 3.8
2006 average rose to 3.9

So there was 5 years of drops and that stopped in 2005 when Cena was moved to Raw. By 2009 with far more homes having cable raws audience ballooned to boom era numbers, over 5 million on average watching (3 million on average tuned in for Wrestlemania 19 season as a comparison with Vince, Hogan, rock and Austin the main guys promoted)




audience dropped in 2001 when rock and Austin were the top guys. Attendance in April 2001 averaged 11,000 paid and November 2001, it was down to 6,000 with rock and Austin maineventing every raw and houseshow. Survivor Series 2001 drew 10,000 in a venue setup for 13,000 with rock and Austin in mainevent. 98-2000 that show sell out in 5 minutes.

it wasn't rock and Austins fault business fell under their watch it was terrible creative. By time HHH came back and lesnar got pushed WWE was already in freefall.



first year rock returned in 2011 he had impact on viewership. Much less so in 2012 and again in 2013.

Last time Cena was champion and maineventing ppvs raw was averaging over 4 million viewers in summer of 2014, similar to what Rocks title run in 2013 averaged.



a guy in USA! How would they know who was biggest merch seller in WWE and how NJPW merch sold compared to WWE.

cena was blowing away Undertaker in merch sales back in 2004 as a mid card guy on SD trading wins with Carlito WWE SHOPZONE

he sold far far more in 2007-10 than 2004 as more people were attending shows and online sales became bigger deals. 2008 he passed Hogan to become #2 all time seller in calendar year. New Day, bullet club aren't close to Cena, WCW never had WWEs distribution network to sell merch so Cena outsold NWO yes. In 2017 with Cena as clear top merch seller WWE shopzone processed 820,000 orders.



Reigns was pushed, he wasn't face of the company. The company never changed direction to build around reigns like they did Bruno, Hogan. Austin or Cena. WWE is still built in image of Cena even now.

His Wrestlemania numbers were terrible how? 32 sellout, 33 sellout, 34 sellout, 31 very close to sellout. Network subs rose each year too. I was at Wrestlemania 26 and it was nowhere near sellout for Shawn vs Taker mainevent and 4 months of Bret vs Vince program.
I don't even know where to start. Sorry man. not buying a damn thing you are saying.
 

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It's miles better than Lesnar vs Fury, but I'd rather watch Black get the chance. Or at least the winner of Orton/Styles match.
 

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What does any of that have to do with being over?
Are any of them over with the silent majority that would pay money to see any of these guys?


Let me help you understand with this analogy: A crowd of 500 wrestling marks paying for premium seats does NOT help pay all the bills for a promotion. A crowd of 50,000 casual fans paying an average of $35 each helps more, but doesn't cover all expenses. That's where broadcasting to a larger audience outside the venue helps, but only if they're showcasing wrestlers the casuals find interesting, and none of those guys you mentioned will draw a single penny. This doesn't go for only WWE, this goes for TNA, ROH, and AEW as well.
 

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Are any of them over with the silent majority that would pay money to see any of these guys?


Let me help you understand with this analogy: A crowd of 500 wrestling marks paying for premium seats does NOT help pay all the bills for a promotion. A crowd of 50,000 casual fans paying an average of $35 each helps more, but doesn't cover all expenses. That's where broadcasting to a larger audience outside the venue helps, but only if they're showcasing wrestlers the casuals find interesting, and none of those guys you mentioned will draw a single penny. This doesn't go for only WWE, this goes for TNA, ROH, and AEW as well.
A very stupid analogy to say the least. You think the casuals care about Rollins or Reigns? Viewership is down.

The idea is that if they position people that are actually over, that can attract the casuals whereas building everything around 2 very untalented performers will turn off the remaining paying audience too.
 

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Cena's push was a mixed bag. Yes, it pissed off hardcores and no, it didn't increase the size of WWE's audience, but it was healthy for the company in other avenues. For example, it really helped WWE's reputation with sponsors and the like. You could argue that this is possibly partially responsible for WWE's huge rights fees, and that's the reason we have a thing like AEW cropping up now. Cena helped change the perception of wrestling as being something you need to get away and distance yourself from.

Vince McMahon is very happy with the job John Cena did.

If you could get him for a big storyline, him going for #17 is about as good as anything WWE is going to have going for them. Going against Brock Lesnar makes a lot of sense. Personally, I'd be quite interested in Cena going after the NXT Title in order to legitimize that. He can even play something of a heel force in NXT, given that he'd be the pristine WWE guy coming in. That's something people have wanted to see for ages.
 
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