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Proper or pseudo heels and faces

  • Proper

    Votes: 6 75.0%
  • Pseudo

    Votes: 2 25.0%
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Discussion Starter #1
Proper face vs heels are faces that actually get cheered and heels that actually get booed.

Pseudo face vs heels are guys who are only face and heels in terms of alignment but not necessarily the crowd reaction.

The problem with WWE right now is that they are trying to go with a mix of this. They have some true faces, some true heels, some pseudo faces and some pseudo heels. They need to commit into one method of storytelling.

Me personally, I just cannot see WWE going back to the old face vs heel alignment. Kayfabe has never been more dead meaning that when I cheer and boo, I cheer and boo for the actors playing the characters instead of the characters themselves. Thats what happens you kill kayfabe so bad. I don't give a fuck in booing heels because I know they are just doing what creative wants their character to do. Same goes for faces. This is why some of the best storylines are the ones entrenced in some reality.

So my suggestion is, do away with the proper face vs heel format. I know some people like their proper heels(which is a bit ironic considering you're not supposed to like them) but we can still have true heels amd faces. Instead, have creative create storylines unhindered by the good vs evil alignment. It allows more room to create storylines, and in a way helps creates a depth and shades of grey to each character. The good vs evil allignment is there as a guide in creating a compelling story, but its not the rule.

The benefits of this is that crowd reaction for faces and heels do not matter much. As long as there is a reaction, and its not go away heat its fine. By using this format, suddenly Reigns getting heel heat and Styles getting face cheers isn't a problem, merely a common occurence. Basically, the choice of who is your babyface and heel has always been up to the fans regardless of allignment. Why not roll with this in storylines too instead of being stuck in the old storytelling ways. Even in other media such as comics, movies and such they do not need you to like the hero and hate the villain. All they neeeded was you to be compelled enough with the story to watch. Thats it really, who you like or don't like is up to you to decide.

Of course this is just my opinion. I'm gonna put a poll up on this topic and if you have an interesting view on the subject matter, then just post.
 
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Story telling has a basic set of rules that everyone must follow. When you don't follow the rules of story telling, you end up with what we currently have right now in the WWE. The fans take over shows, cheer the heels, boo the face talents etc. This is a response to the lack of story telling, continuity in writing, evolving characters, etc. The fans have constantly had their intelligence insulted and now it's their turn to take matters into their hands.

The WWE needs to realize how to tell a story. There always has to be a main plot that the rest of the roster follows. Currently in the WWE that is not the case. We rarely have back stories for characters and the maturity of characters on the show is practically non existent. Where is the passion for the business? So many are just showing up for a paycheck and it also appears as though the WWE are okay with that. Eliminating the basics in story telling is something the WWE has already done and that's why what you have suggested is a very ignorant set of statements. The sad part is you aren't even aware.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Story telling has a basic set of rules that everyone must follow. When you don't follow the rules of story telling, you end up with what we currently have right now in the WWE. The fans take over shows, cheer the heels, boo the face talents etc. This is a response to the lack of story telling, continuity in writing, evolving characters, etc. The fans have constantly had their intelligence insulted and now it's their turn to take matters into their hands.

The WWE needs to realize how to tell a story. There always has to be a main plot that the rest of the roster follows. Currently in the WWE that is not the case. We rarely have back stories for characters and the maturity of characters on the show is practically non existent. Where is the passion for the business? So many are just showing up for a paycheck and it also appears as though the WWE are okay with that. Eliminating the basics in story telling is something the WWE has already done and that's why what you have suggested is a very ignorant set of statements. The sad part is you aren't even aware.
Have they though? I was in agreement for almost of your post except for your last point. If that were true, people wouldn't be complaining about Reigns getting heel heat and Styles getting cheers. If that were true, they wouldn't try to edit out boos for Reigns since it isn't the 'desired' reaction for him. Some heels wouldn't have their legs cut out from under them from getting too popular(Barrett). Its like I said, they are mixed about it and not committing to going back to the old storytelling style or embracing the new style.

The benefits of the pseudo format is instead of having a good vs evil split of the roster, there are merely characters. Sure the company can push who they want to be showcased more, but if there is a backlash there wouldn't be anywhere near stubborn to turn them heel. Such a format would mean that it would just be heel heat and so the compsny can simply assign an underdog to feud with this guy. Boom, instand storyline without messing with their characters like they always do.
 

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Have they though? I was in agreement for almost of your post except for your last point. If that were true, people wouldn't be complaining about Reigns getting heel heat and Styles getting cheers. If that were true, they wouldn't try to edit out boos for Reigns since it isn't the 'desired' reaction for him. Some heels wouldn't have their legs cut out from under them from getting too popular(Barrett). Its like I said, they are mixed about it and not committing to going back to the old storytelling style or embracing the new style.

The benefits of the pseudo format is instead of having a good vs evil split of the roster, there are merely characters. Sure the company can push who they want to be showcased more, but if there is a backlash there wouldn't be anywhere near stubborn to turn them heel. Such a format would mean that it would just be heel heat and so the compsny can simply assign an underdog to feud with this guy. Boom, instand storyline without messing with their characters like they always do.
You don't seem to understand. What you are describing is okay on rare occasions. It's not something you place emphasis on as heavily when story telling. Have you ever heard of a "tweener"? That's basically what your are describing. You simply can't have a whole roster full of "tweener" type talents. Under this format wrestling would most certainly lose it's sponsors because no one will be watching.

In order to tell a story properly you must have the basics down. What you are describing rejects that basic formula. With wrestling we know ultimately that it all ends in the ring. Since we know the latter then we must also understand that the audience will want to figure out who is who. When the story teller provides such information the audience will comply and "stick the show".

When there isn't a clear line of who is who and why, we are left with the current product and it's fans. May I also point out that the fans response is the WWE's doing. They, the WWE created this mess. Fans reject what is being shoved in front of them and so they now decide how to respond as opposed to being slowly worked into these characters and responding properly. People at play's aren't cheering the villain and if they do respond to what they are viewing live it's appropriate, they don't hijack the show.

I can't stand it when fans start saying things like "There is no reason for good guy, or bad guy". I'm here to correct those fans and tell them they're wrong. This isn't opinion based. Rules are rules and writing has a strict set of rules outside of punctuation, grammar and spelling. Story telling is an art that requires time, education, thought and obviously creativity. People aren't interested in plots because they have no beginning, middle and end. We read and become fascinated with things because we read about them. A story whether it be fiction, or not will always capture our attention when the rules of story telling are followed.

Interest just doesn't pop out of thin air. You have to create interests. The WWE hasn't created new fans. This company is basically clinging on an older generation as each decade passes. Less and less young males are staying in tuned. People don't want to watch to men, or women in the ring and wrestle. The viewer needs substance to maintain interests. Without substance and the understanding of who to cheer and who to boo you end up with that has poorly built characters, terrible booking and no real plot. That's called today's WWE.
 

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Casual viewers are the big money for WWE, and they don't care about workrate or things like that in deciding who to like, they just care who is good and who is bad and roll with it. I personally feel they should listen to crowd reactions but you know what if I want a smark friendly show I'll watch NJPW or indy content and not WWE.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You don't seem to understand. What you are describing is okay on rare occasions. It's not something you place emphasis on as heavily when story telling. Have you ever heard of a "tweener"? That's basically what your are describing. You simply can't have a whole roster full of "tweener" type talents. Under this format wrestling would most certainly lose it's sponsors because no one will be watching.

In order to tell a story properly you must have the basics down. What you are describing rejects that basic formula. With wrestling we know ultimately that it all ends in the ring. Since we know the latter then we must also understand that the audience will want to figure out who is who. When the story teller provides such information the audience will comply and "stick the show".

When there isn't a clear line of who is who and why, we are left with the current product and it's fans. May I also point out that the fans response is the WWE's doing. They, the WWE created this mess. Fans reject what is being shoved in front of them and so they now decide how to respond as opposed to being slowly worked into these characters and responding properly. People at play's aren't cheering the villain and if they do respond to what they are viewing live it's appropriate, they don't hijack the show.

I can't stand it when fans start saying things like "There is no reason for good guy, or bad guy". I'm here to correct those fans and tell them they're wrong. This isn't opinion based. Rules are rules and writing has a strict set of rules outside of punctuation, grammar and spelling. Story telling is an art that requires time, education, thought and obviously creativity. People aren't interested in plots because they have no beginning, middle and end. We read and become fascinated with things because we read about them. A story whether it be fiction, or not will always capture our attention when the rules of story telling are followed.

Interest just doesn't pop out of thin air. You have to create interests. The WWE hasn't created new fans. This company is basically clinging on an older generation as each decade passes. Less and less young males are staying in tuned. People don't want to watch to men, or women in the ring and wrestle. The viewer needs substance to maintain interests. Without substance and the understanding of who to cheer and who to boo you end up with that has poorly built characters, terrible booking and no real plot. That's called today's WWE.
Oh yeah, sure. So what you are saying is basically the WWE doesn't know how to do storytelling anymore. Although I believe that may be true, I don't think it has anything to do with having proper good guys or bad guys. It is no longer a rule in storytelling. There are plenty and plenty of stories that play with the good vs evil archetype and use a shades of grey format.

Its just I think the WWE simply has to stop banking on trying to get people to cheer some people and boo some people because even if creative was competent, society has moved on in a way where some people feel compelled to cheer the bad guy and boo the good guy. I'm actually an advocate for better and deeper characters, which is why I don't think characters have to be labelled good and evil so easily as it bogs down their character. And then face and heel turns shouldn't really happen that much because for the most part it leads to a conflict in the personality that doesn't make sense. By usig this format, there would be less need for such turns and when they do happen, it would have a bigger impact.
 
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