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Discussion Starter #41
Fuck lol, it's already been said but the WWE isn't really far off from NXT. They really don't focus on the entertainment stuff at all these days and the few times they do, it's that pussified, toothless stuff like the New Day wearing Unicorn horns on their heads. As far as losing fans, they are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of hardcore fans - those people will never leave the product no matter what. The only audience left for them to lose it little kids.
So they should just make it like NXT then.
 

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There are certainly a plethora of saturated content, societal and I would imagine corporate factors that will hamper WWE from ever reaching records like Andre/Hogan drawing 33 million viewers on a rumble for SNME or the consistent pop culture relevancy and routine 5s&6s WWE pulled in the AE when one could go to a place like six flags and see a sea of Austin 3:16 shirts. That said thought: WWE I think would stand to increase their product by evolving with the times by being more intricate, rolling with what is currently popular and stepping up their quality of storytelling. You look at what is huge in the box office/flooding stores: "cool/tough" superheroes with personality with nice effects. You look at what is grabbing acclaim and ratings in television: intricate, multi-dimensional storytelling with an "epic" feel like Boardwalk or Breaking Bad or as I understand even though Ive never watched: GOT. Meanwhile, WWE's closest fit to what I just described would be logically lead to far better treatment of the Wyatts yet here we are with Bray in the situation he is in while pre-getting popped: WWE just spent several years worth of content getting Roman Reigns over in an antiqued fashion.

If WWE adapts and improves their storytelling to the point where people don't feel insulted or embarrassed watching the show: I bet WWE sees ratings rise some even in today's extremely short attention-spanned for entertainment environment. Again though, no way will WWE ever fully recoup too many factors against it.
Exactly! This is why Lucha Underground is critically acclaimed. All WWE needs to do is adopt this formula, tone it down a bit and us hardcores will be alot more satisfied.

Fuck pandering to casuals with shitty guest stars like John Stewart and Puff Daddy, just make a good show and do good by your actual loyal fans.
 

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Anybody who knows anything about the business could have told you that Owens winning a top tier title, even an ugly one with a stupid name, would elicit a Babyface response. WWE could easily prepare for this and make Owens a babyface anti hero, perhaps they will.

If WWE refuses to factor crowd reactions into their booking then they shouldn't complain when the crowd reaction doesn't match their narrative.

I'm sick of this blame the fans, WWE are the victims horse shit.
They'd only have 5 heels on the main roster though...

Rusev
Reigns
Miz
Charlotte
Eva

They can't turn every heel who pops the smarks, logistically it makes an unworkable roster and that would encourage them to be even less like heels wouldn't it?

Look how over The Revival are as heels with a heavily smark NXT audience even whilst delivering top level matches and constrained to PG. It's still possible.

Hell, this is about NXT and Joe is playing a much better heel than Owens has been.
 
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Respect My Pimphand..
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They'd only have 5 heels on the main roster though...

Rusev
Reigns
Miz
Charlotte
Eva

They can't turn every heel who pops the smarks, logistically it makes an unworkable roster and that would encourage them to be even less like heels wouldn't it?

Look how over The Revival are as heels with a heavily smark NXT audience even whilst delivering top level matches and constrained to PG. It's still possible.

Hell, this is about NXT and Joe is playing a much better heel than Owens has been.
The NXT audience is more willing to play along with alignments than the main roster is. Owens was getting massive heat feuding with Zain in NXT, but they debuted him against Cena as the same character and he's been over as a babyface since. I can see the same happening to Joe when he's called up as well. The Revival can maintain that because, although they're great, they have no sizzle to their steak so to speak, so they're less likely to pop a crowd.
 

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What casuals? They already drove them away with the Reigns push.

HHH is going to drive the company into the ground with his NXT bullshit.
 

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Raw is basically NXT on steroids where all the NXT guys get pushed to the top, I can't wait to see what happens to Bobby Roode when he comes to the main roster.
 

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The NXT audience is more willing to play along with alignments than the main roster is. Owens was getting massive heat feuding with Zain in NXT, but they debuted him against Cena as the same character and he's been over as a babyface since. I can see the same happening to Joe when he's called up as well. The Revival can maintain that because, although they're great, they have no sizzle to their steak so to speak, so they're less likely to pop a crowd.
That's the effect of an indy guy feuding with Cena though.

Since that feud Owens hasn't been as serious or aggressive. That's partially booking ofcourse but also how he portrays himself and wrestles when he is on.

I get what your saying but should it not be all heels' jobs to make sure they are all steak no sizzle? Pretty sure many legendary heels have stated they purposefully avoided popping crowds with their moves and mannerisms.
 
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They'd only have 5 heels on the main roster though...

Rusev
Reigns
Miz
Charlotte
Eva

They can't turn every heel who pops the smarks, logistically it makes an unworkable roster and that would encourage them to be even less like heels wouldn't it?

Look how over The Revival are as heels with a heavily smark NXT audience even whilst delivering top level matches and constrained to PG. It's still possible.

Hell, this is about NXT and Joe is playing a much better heel than Owens has been.
Unfortunately there may be less true heels going forward it just feels like that's entertainment these days bad guys and anti heroes are fun and cool. Maintaining a 50/50 split of heels and faces might prove to be very hard.

Not all is lost, you can have your surviving heels be super prickish. You can have babyfaces play more complex characters that detest each other. Seeing as guys from the indies are perceived as hardworking cinderellas it may be possible to turn anyone that doesn't have that buzz.

My point is adapt to it or deal with the resulting negatives.
 

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It's very possible but in all honesty, it could go any way. All I know is that the WWE machine is so good that they can always appeal to a large number of people no matter what the quality of match is like/what the wrestlers look like.
 

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I was thinking if HHH takes over the company and makes it like NXT and have Indie guys will they lose a lot of their casual fans? I think it will. I know its a wrestling company but at the same time a lot of people who watch WWE like the entertainment part. The AE and RAE had both entertainment and wrestling, but it seem like HHH only cares about pure wrestling which is ironic. What do you think?
They've literally been losing fans with the emergence of Orton, Batista and Cena as their top guys. Not "indy guys" by any means. Are they 100% to blame? Of course not, but the idea that they will lose fans because Kevin Owens , Finn Balor or Rollins are champions is laughable when you realize they've been losing fans for well over a decade with the WWE factory made guys . "Indy guys" would actually be something new and different
 

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Discussion Starter #52
What casuals? They already drove them away with the Reigns push.

HHH is going to drive the company into the ground with his NXT bullshit.
That is what I am saying. WWE also needs to try to appeal to casuals as well. WWE since Vince took over has always been about wrestling and entertainment. Yes the entertainment part as gone down for the past 8 years since well they turned PG, but if they cancel that out and its just pure wrestling like NXT is, WWE will lose a lot of their fanbase.
 

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The freaking opposite is true

Why would the main roster full of over cool characters with awesome entrances, a women's division given time to develop and even Mainevent (not booked as an afterthought), a hot tag division, no 50/50 cause fans to leave

Someone said the main roster is already nxt..no its fucking not. That's like saying ecw on syfy was really ecw because sandman, taz, rvd, sabu, dreamer were on it. Main roster is still doing the same booking with people from nxt on it..you would never see what happened last monday night happen in nxt because authority figures don't dominate, the wrestlers themselves do, titles are not devalued and storylines are logical
Yeah you're right. I was wrong for saying that. The main roster isn't run like NXT at all when you think about it and I wasn't. :frown2:


They'd only have 5 heels on the main roster though...

Rusev
Reigns

Miz
Charlotte
Eva

They can't turn every heel who pops the smarks, logistically it makes an unworkable roster and that would encourage them to be even less like heels wouldn't it?

Look how over The Revival are as heels with a heavily smark NXT audience even whilst delivering top level matches and constrained to PG. It's still possible.

Hell, this is about NXT and Joe is playing a much better heel than Owens has been.

You mean to tell me two heels have been beating the piss out of each other over the last few weeks? I could have sworn one of them was supposed to be a babyface. Was it the Russian guy with the hot blonde wife?
 

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You mean to tell me two heels have been beating the piss out of each other over the last few weeks? I could have sworn one of them was supposed to be a babyface. Was it the Russian guy with the hot blonde wife?
Didn't say he's heel now, I was talking about if they booked by crowd reactions.
 

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Anybody who knows anything about the business could have told you that Owens winning a top tier title, even an ugly one with a stupid name, would elicit a Babyface response. WWE could easily prepare for this and make Owens a babyface anti hero, perhaps they will.

If WWE refuses to factor crowd reactions into their booking then they shouldn't complain when the crowd reaction doesn't match their narrative.

I'm sick of this blame the fans, WWE are the victims horse shit.
People always say listen to the fans, but Brock Lesnar gets massive pops for suplex city and posters here think he should be fired. Obviously they mean only listen to the audience if it aligns with what the IWC feel.

They've literally been losing fans with the emergence of Orton, Batista and Cena as their top guys. Not "indy guys" by any means. Are they 100% to blame? Of course not, but the idea that they will lose fans because Kevin Owens , Finn Balor or Rollins are champions is laughable when you realize they've been losing fans for well over a decade with the WWE factory made guys . "Indy guys" would actually be something new and different
Orton, Batista, and Cena as "top guys" brought in higher ratings than Rollins, Ambrose, Owens, Balor. If Indy guys are so great why are they not increasing ratings and bringing in more casuals
 

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I love how some people say "indy guy" like it means a flip flop midget with no personality. Styles,Ambrose,Rollins and Owens are 4 of the most diverse and wellrounded guys they got. So you think they are worse entertainers then Reigns and Big cass then? Hell even Cass did some years on the indies. Miz did some years on the indies. Even Cena did.

Who cares if you are an indy guy or not. Just put the most wellrounded guys on top indyexperience or not. Bray is a guy that didnt spend any years on the indies and he,s easily one of the best guys that should be booked alot better.
 

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People always say listen to the fans, but Brock Lesnar gets massive pops for suplex city and posters here think he should be fired. Obviously only listen to the audience if it aligns what IWC feel.
The IWC.... not all of them of course, but you know, the weirdo's out there, have some sort of weird vendetta against Lesnar because he's booked as a 100% bona fide main eventer, because "other guy's work more shows then him" lol. Besides the fact that the guy is an absolute monster, looks like he could destroy the rest of the roster, is a big name outside of wrestling, and more, the fact is that it makes sense to have your main eventers in a "special attraction" type of role. As long as suplex city gets pops from the crowd is makes absolute sense for him to keep doing it. If the IWC weirdo's booked the show, wrestlemania's main event would be a 90 minute Owens vs Zayn match that ends with Owens saying "I WANT TO WRESTLE YOU FOREVER" and then breaking out into a make out session as the match is called to a draw.
 

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People always say listen to the fans, but Brock Lesnar gets massive pops for suplex city and posters here think he should be fired. Obviously only listen to the audience if it aligns what IWC feel.
Not at all. I'm very much of the opinion that if you hear a complaint from wrestling fans on the internet but not in the arena then it might not be that big a deal.

Dean Ambrose, Enzo, and Sasha get or got tonnes of shit on here but you never hear it in the arena. So it might be best to ignore it.

If you're hearing the same complaint from numerous sources then it might be something you want to consider. Not exactely scientific but a decent rule of thumb.

Stop taking complaints from the internet and saying the "smarks fink dis" If it's a significant number you'll hear it in the crowds.
 

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Casual fans have been gone for a long time. I think that, if HHH turns WWE into NXT, then those casual fans will stay gone. Whether or not fans of workrate want to admit it, the WWE was at its best when there were characters, gimmicks, and wrestlers that could make it work. That style is dying nowadays as fans clamor for Sami Zayn and Nakamura to win world titles. Majority of the fan base in the past didn't care much about how perfectly a wrestler could execute a suplex. They cared more about the drama. The intensity of wrestlers along with the creativity of the writing are just not there anymore. For example, Bray Wyatt in his current state wouldn't go over Brock Lesnar because of his track record. However, if this was a little over a decade ago, he would have been doing so much sadistic shit that it would be believable for him to beat Brock Lesnar. I'm even willing to bet that, if the WWE continues to focus on workrate and adapt the indy style more, then Lucha Underground might be able to compete with them in a few years down the road.
 
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