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Discussion Starter #1
He went toe to toe with Reigns and won clean. He's beaten the big bad brute type in Kane. He beat a legend that was "stalking" him in Sting. At this point, does anyone believe Seth is scared? Can he now run into the ring and slug it out with Roman.

Honestly, the fans love him. He's one of, if not the best in the company.
 

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TEAM KICK!
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I hope so, being the constant chicken shit is hurting him. There's no reason for him to be backing down from anyone anymore. It made sense back when he was feuding with Ambrose as Ambrose was essentially obsessed with Seth at the time, but right now, Seth should be standing up for himself, he shouldn't be running away unless he's really being smart about it and has a plan, rather than just being cowardly.
 

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Let's talk about six, baby.
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He'll keep being a chickenshit heel because lolvince.
 

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Thing is he was booked fine last night. He was actually booked as the babyface for the first half of the match. Roman was the one taunting him, calling him "little brother", and acting like a true heel. He targeted his knee for a little while too. Seth can stay a heel but at this point he's pretty much a tweener. But no more of the chickenshit heel Vince wants him to be. He didn't run away last night. He didn't have outside help. He doesn't need to be that character anymore. He's not the Authority golden boy anymore.
 

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It's been changed already. There's no way you get back to being a chickenshit once you beat Reigns clean. It would defy logic. And make Reigns look plenty bad, by the way, which we know Vince will definately not do.
 

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I hope so, being the constant chicken shit is hurting him. There's no reason for him to be backing down from anyone anymore. It made sense back when he was feuding with Ambrose as Ambrose was essentially obsessed with Seth at the time, but right now, Seth should be standing up for himself, he shouldn't be running away unless he's really being smart about it and has a plan, rather than just being cowardly.
I feel like last night they made a point of his doing it without the Authority. And he did, using no cheap tricks or dirty tactics.

The ref was knocked down but I believe that was by Reigns doing.

Since he's been back I really haven't been getting the chicken shit vibe where he's getting everybody else to do his battles. And that is a good thing.
 

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TEAM KICK!
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I feel like last night they made a point of his doing it without the Authority. And he did, using no cheap tricks or dirty tactics.

The ref was knocked down but I believe that was by Reigns doing.

Since he's been back I really haven't been getting the chicken shit vibe where he's getting everybody else to do his battles. And that is a good thing.
The bit on RAW where he kept on running back and forth to the ring still stood out to me as 'chicken shit' but it hasn't been as bad as what it was, and last night was definitely a big step in the right direction, he went in there with Reigns and didn't back down, they just need to make sure that's the way he stays.
 

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I would like to think this would be the start of Seth's face turn. One idea would be for Rollins to start showing some contrition for the way he acted, and cut a promo admitting he got what he deserved in the end. Could then talk about how awesome it felt beating Reigns outright after winning dirty all the time before his injury, and tell Ambrose that he's going to come after him and kick his arse fair and square to get his belt back.

A very pissed off Roman Reigns blindsides Rollins and brutally beats him down, talks about how he went up against the Authority, always played fair, fought the good fight and still can never keep hold of the belt or gain the love of the fans - meanwhile Rollins held the title for ages playing dirty, insults the fans and still gets a huge cheer when he pinned him.

Roman chasing the title as a heel and Rollins chasing it as a face, and Ambrose pluckily holding onto the belt for dear life. New life breathed into this three-way feud.
 

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\m/
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The chickenshit was heading to the chopping block even before he was injured. I didn't get any chickenshit vibes when he came back during the promos leading to the match. Seth has truly come into his own and now stands his ground without the need of things like Kane, J&J Security and the like. He said on the Ambrose Asylum that he would reclaim his title on his own and boy did accomplish just that.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The bit on RAW where he kept on running back and forth to the ring still stood out to me as 'chicken shit' but it hasn't been as bad as what it was, and last night was definitely a big step in the right direction, he went in there with Reigns and didn't back down, they just need to make sure that's the way he stays.
I think that was their last ditch effort to force Reigns and Rollins into the roles they want them in. They want the fans to love Roman, and when Rollins returned it was clear who the fans wanted more. So they wasted 10 minutes reminding us Rollins is a coward. The fans just aren't having it. Rollins is too easy to root for, even as a heel. He's charismatic, he's infinitely better on the mic than Reigns, and he's amazing in the ring. Why keep fighting it?
 

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TEAM KICK!
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I think that was their last ditch effort to force Reigns and Rollins into the roles they want them in. They want the fans to love Roman, and when Rollins returned it was clear who the fans wanted more. So they wasted 10 minutes reminding us Rollins is a coward. The fans just aren't having it. Rollins is too easy to root for, even as a heel. He's charismatic, he's infinitely better on the mic than Reigns, and he's amazing in the ring. Why keep fighting it?
Precisely. I hope they've learned their lesson, because the way that MITB played out towards the end was fantastic, and is one of the few times recently where i can genuinely say that the WWE did a good job with their main event scene. They need to realise that the fans aren't stupid, they can't be fooled into cheering for someone who they don't want to.

A smart man would make Rollins the confident babyface and Roman the aggressive heel.
 

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To me, the biggest problem with the booking of Seth as a chickenshit heel is that he's only presented as such during the build up.

For example, the one segment with Roman a few weeks back where he was seemingly avoiding getting in the ring with him but when it's time for the actual match, that fear and reservation no longer exists. And the inconsistency of that presentation affects the perception of him.

Personally, I think if you're going to continue booking him as a chickenshit heel, you need to give him a stable. Either way, he needs to display the same chickenshit characteristics in matches as he does in the build up. With Flair, whether he had the Horsemen or not, as a chickenshit heel, he was always consistent from the build up to the match. He begged for forgiveness. He manipulated the referee and took advantage of every circumstance to keep his title or win a match. Seth does none of that, despite being booked as a pussy.

Hopefully, they give him a stable or at the very least, a valet. I'd like to see both, as I think it would be very cool but once again, he'd still have to work as such in the actual match and IMO, he doesn't.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
To me, the biggest problem with the booking of Seth as a chickenshit heel is that he's only presented as such during the build up.

For example, the one segment with Roman a few weeks back where he was seemingly avoiding getting in the ring with him but when it's time for the actual match, that fear and reservation no longer exists. And the inconsistency of that presentation affects the perception of him.

Personally, I think if you're going to continue booking him as a chickenshit heel, you need to give him a stable. Either way, he needs to display the same chickenshit characteristics in matches as he does in the build up. With Flair, whether he had the Horsemen or not, as a chickenshit heel, he was always consistent from the build up to the match. He begged for forgiveness. He manipulated the referee and took advantage of every circumstance to keep his title or win a match. Seth does none of that, despite being booked as a pussy.

Hopefully, they give him a stable or at the very least, a valet. I'd like to see both, as I think it would be very cool but once again, he'd still have to work as such in the actual match and IMO, he doesn't.
Exactly. He can handle his own when it comes time to fight. Why act scared when it's not time to fight?
 

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I clearly felt the tap
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Last night was the beginning of a new Rollins in terms of booking. He beat Reigns clean, or at least 99% clean. They can't go back after that, considering how much has been invested in making Reigns look like an unbeatable God.
 

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Seems to me like WWE is turning him babyface, and Roman Reigns heel. I noticed Reigns acting a little heelish at Money in the Bank. Maybe losing to Rollins will cause him to snap or something, while Rollins becomes the babyface everyone has been asking for. Then again this is WWE, and they'll probably end up going back to the same old formula on Raw tonight. I will actually laugh if they do though, if they have Rollins play the chickenshit heel tonight against Reigns.
 

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It would make no sense to continue the chicken shit routine. Kayfabe-wise, there's nobody on the roster he should be afraid of. He's just beaten the toughest, baddest dude on the roster.

If anything, the rest of the roster should be afraid of him now :rollins
 

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I think you're just not getting the character (although that's WWE's fault obviously, I'm just gonna say my view on the character and maybe it might resonate with you).

Roman Reigns is a scrapper. He is supposed to hit like a truck (I specifically remember Rollings getting caught a few months back and saying "Damn, I forgot how hard he hits"). He's a powerhouse guy who has killer punches and overall strikes. Rollins is none of this. His character isn't supposed to win if he charges down to the ring and goes for a brawl.

Rollins is supposed to handle business when it's a big moment. He walked out and asked for that Reigns match, didn't cheat once, and won the match. That's what he does. He's not a "Anywhere, anytime" kind of guy. He's a "this place, that time" kind of guy.

I think this was best personified when Ambrose' music hit. Rollins threw the title down and basically said "Fucking bring it". He was ready, because whether he was just in that match with Reigns or not, Rollins is out there, in the ring, warmed up and in his gear. That's when he's dangerous, not in a backstage brawl.

I like it and it adds something. I am not a fan of the cowardly heel stuff. Kevin Owens should treat everyone like he treats Zayn. He should be more than willing to scrap, perhaps backing down only when he gets bested. Rollins though shouldn't scrap. It's not him.

A good example is Austin Aries. I remember Aries was given something like a ladder match in TNA and his angle was "Screw this. I'm a professional wrestler. I don't use weapons and jump off ladders. I come into this ring and professional wrestle". I felt that was a really fresh twist for a character. He's about doing what he does in that cage, not about using all the variables and seeing the danger of a hardcore match. Rollins isn't like that, but he's the same in that he knows his strength and doesn't play to yours.

Brock Lesnar also has a great gimmick in this regard. If he wants to, he'll walk down and destroy anyone in the company. He will stare Cena in the eye and drop him. He'll kill Mark Henry 5 nights in a row. But he's there for one reason; money (ironic being his current endeavours). So he's out there and Paul Heyman says "No, we don't fight for free" and Brock leaves because in kayfabe, not fighting helps preserve his spectacle and pay cheque.
 

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Well, Raw just started, Reigns is still face (despite losing his temper and being scornful of the crowd), Rollins (greeted by a BIG pop) was his usual moaning/bitching persona. They just have no clue. My mind is fucking blown. One step forward, three steps back. Every. Single. Time.
 
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