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Yes....and no.

He will easily be considered a GOAT by the WWE machine, he almost certainly belongs in the GOAT conversation by those who consider wrestling WWE only. But in the over 100 year history of the sport....No, he is not.

He's outside the top 100 all time right now, In a few years, he might be in the top 100. But unless something changes big time, he is nothing more then in the 80's or 90's all time.
Absolutely no way he is outside top 100. His shield run, his Wrestlemania run, his current title run. He was top 25 all time worldwide pre covid maineventing shows drawing 10,000+. His run of matches since returning alone would be considered all time great run
Roman is literally just Lex Luger in the mid 90s, the only difference is back then Vince had to listen to his audience to draw money, now he can push who he wants because of TV deals and such. He's not even as over as your average Attitude era low midcard guy or your average Ruthless Aggression midcard guy was. If they pushed Charlie Haas or Mark Jindrak as long and as strong as they have Reigns, they could have given you comparable if not better results.
Fuck sake will you stop with this shit. Luger didn't draw a dime hence why his push was dropped. Bret, Taker and 3-4 others were all selling more merch in the middle of Lugers 93 push. Reigns on the other hand is selling merch (as a fucking heel) on a par with Cena and Cena outsold Hogan and Rock on merch at their peaks...

Yeah Mark Jindrak, Haas etc were all getting reactions like this lol

 

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Hmm, at this point I’d say no. Love his current run, but that initial 4-5 years of being pushed and getting rejected by the fans wasn’t doing him any favors. He’s 36 though and it doesn’t look like he’s going to be pushed to the side in the foreseeable future. He has a lot of time left in this run — 5 years, at least. We’ll see how things look at that point.
 

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Wwe just can't book likable babyfaces in this era.

Imagine current Roman Reigns in 2000 with Rock, Austin, Angle, Benoit, Jericho, Undertaker, Kane etc

Would he go down as an all time great then? Probably yeah.

As it is now he is a massively pushed and tweaked character on a show surrounded by the likes of Big E and Kevin Owens.
 

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He's in the Top 50 of the 2020s, easily!
 
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Absolutely no way he is outside top 100. His shield run, his Wrestlemania run, his current title run. He was top 25 all time worldwide pre covid maineventing shows drawing 10,000+. His run of matches since returning alone would be considered all time great run

Fuck sake will you stop with this shit. Luger didn't draw a dime hence why his push was dropped. Bret, Taker and 3-4 others were all selling more merch in the middle of Lugers 93 push. Reigns on the other hand is selling merch (as a fucking heel) on a par with Cena and Cena outsold Hogan and Rock on merch at their peaks...

Yeah Mark Jindrak, Haas etc were all getting reactions like this lol

Reigns has never sold 1 PPV in his life, his TV ratings are atrocious. No shit he sells merch, he's the avatar of a massive global company, when Hogan was around it was a national one and with Rock/Austin/Cena/Batista it was more international, but nowhere near what it is now. His levels of exposure are through the roof, he's been smashed over everyone, almost anyone else in this spot would be doing as good or better. He's a product of the WWE machine, if he left tomorrow they could insert anyone else as the avatar and they'd be just fine.

And lol at him being top 25 at main eventing 10K+ shows. Means absolutely nothing. Most of those shows are carried by the WWE brand and Reigns didn't do one fucking thing to do with it. We're really going to give him credit for shows like Summerslam and Wrestlemania? We're going to pretend that he factored into those gates at all?

Wwe just can't book likable babyfaces in this era.

Imagine current Roman Reigns in 2000 with Rock, Austin, Angle, Benoit, Jericho, Undertaker, Kane etc

Would he go down as an all time great then? Probably yeah.

As it is now he is a massively pushed and tweaked character on a show surrounded by the likes of Big E and Kevin Owens.
If Reigns were on the roster back then, he'd be overshadowed by those who were way more talented with way more charisma and star power. He'd be in the position Test was, most likely. Maybe Billy Gunn if he was lucky. Back then, they weren't going to push you over everyone 6 years straight until you somewhat got over, they'd have been out of business if they did that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Reigns has never sold 1 PPV in his life, his TV ratings are atrocious. No shit he sells merch, he's the avatar of a massive global company, when Hogan was around it was a national one and with Rock/Austin/Cena/Batista it was more international, but nowhere near what it is now. His levels of exposure are through the roof, he's been smashed over everyone, almost anyone else in this spot would be doing as good or better. He's a product of the WWE machine, if he left tomorrow they could insert anyone else as the avatar and they'd be just fine.

And lol at him being top 25 at main eventing 10K+ shows. Means absolutely nothing. Most of those shows are carried by the WWE brand and Reigns didn't do one fucking thing to do with it. We're really going to give him credit for shows like Summerslam and Wrestlemania? We're going to pretend that he factored into those gates at all?



If Reigns were on the roster back then, he'd be overshadowed by those who were way more talented with way more charisma and star power. He'd be in the position Test was, most likely. Maybe Billy Gunn if he was lucky. Back then, they weren't going to push you over everyone 6 years straight until you somewhat got over, they'd have been out of business if they did that.
you are delusional
 

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Absolutely no way he is outside top 100. His shield run, his Wrestlemania run, his current title run. He was top 25 all time worldwide pre covid maineventing shows drawing 10,000+. His run of matches since returning alone would be considered all time great run
I don't know man I think he's probably still right around 100. But I understand the argument people will make. There are alot of folks who put way too much emphasis on the "WWE era" and completley ignore the previous 100 years of the sport. But we are probably not going to agree on that, and it's 100% okay. I think my only push back would be if people actually started talking top 20 with him. In the WWF only it makes much more sense but in a world wide history? I don't think so.
 

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you are delusional
Do you really think in the mid 90s-mid 2000s McMahon would have had the luxury of smashing Reigns over for years until he generated a little bit of business? No, the guy had to sell PPVs and people needed to watch the show. He tried to do the same shit with Lesnar, who was a way better talent and a lot more believable, and his first run was more or less a massive flop.

Reigns has had the luxury of being the avatar of a global company who doesn't need its stars to draw significant money anymore, the brand does through TV deals, Peacock, Saudi Arabia, etc.
 

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Absolutely no way he is outside top 100. His shield run, his Wrestlemania run, his current title run. He was top 25 all time worldwide pre covid maineventing shows drawing 10,000+. His run of matches since returning alone would be considered all time great run

Fuck sake will you stop with this shit. Luger didn't draw a dime hence why his push was dropped. Bret, Taker and 3-4 others were all selling more merch in the middle of Lugers 93 push. Reigns on the other hand is selling merch (as a fucking heel) on a par with Cena and Cena outsold Hogan and Rock on merch at their peaks...

Yeah Mark Jindrak, Haas etc were all getting reactions like this lol

He is in top 100. The importance of his endless wins alone makes him important. But an all time great? The bar is much higher. He didn’t revolutionize how Americans view wrestling like an Angle or Michaels. He certainly can’t elicit the crowd reaction of a heel Hogan. Of no fault of his own, he doesn’t elevate anyone as a heel champion. On the contrary, it appears the feel good Big E run occurred just so he could eat shit and lose clean as a whistle, allowing a pass on the Uso finish for at least a month.

If he got the heat of the Honky Tonk Man or I’d ever seen a single Roman shirt in the wild, or anyone who doesn’t watch wrestling had the foggiest clue who he is, then his status would go up a bit.


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He's good but not one of the greatest. Part of that can be attributed to there aren't that many wrestlers around right now that are good fits for any story with him. The GOATS all had other great wrestlers around them, you can't really say that with the current generation.
 

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Reigns has never sold 1 PPV in his life, his TV ratings are atrocious. No shit he sells merch, he's the avatar of a massive global company, when Hogan was around it was a national one and with Rock/Austin/Cena/Batista it was more international, but nowhere near what it is now. His levels of exposure are through the roof, he's been smashed over everyone, almost anyone else in this spot would be doing as good or better. He's a product of the WWE machine, if he left tomorrow they could insert anyone else as the avatar and they'd be just fine.
As Austin said in 2003 'I am just a used gear, they will replace me with new gear and wheel keeps turning'. So yeah. But no not anyone could replace him, they pushed Mcintyre to the moon and interest in him was a fraction of Reigns.

Considering ppv was gone by the time Reigns mainevented his first your opening quote makes no sense. Its funny though Reigns mainevented Wrestlemania 31, 32, 33 and 34 and all were advanced sellout first time in history WWE sold out four stadium Wrestlemanias in a row. Wrestlemania 24, 25, 26 had lots of seats available day of show...

On ratings he increased raw ratings the night he appeared vs strong nfl competition. Even Austin could not do that in 2019.

And lol at him being top 25 at main eventing 10K+ shows. Means absolutely nothing. Most of those shows are carried by the WWE brand and Reigns didn't do one fucking thing to do with it.
Why isn't Shéamus close to top so. I mean he mainevented lots of shows in 2009-16.

We're really going to give him credit for shows like Summerslam and Wrestlemania? We're going to pretend that he factored into those gates at all?
So we can't give him credit for shows he mainevented, merch he sells ok

If Reigns were on the roster back then, he'd be overshadowed by those who were way more talented with way more charisma and star power. He'd be in the position Test was, most likely. Maybe Billy Gunn if he was lucky. Back then, they weren't going to push you over everyone 6 years straight until you somewhat got over, they'd have been out of business if they did that.
Test and Billy Gunn lol

Reigns was already over before he ever mainevented a ppv in singles capacity. You do not generate a reaction like he did at 2015 Rumble without the fans being interested in the person. As Bischoff said controversy equals cash..
 

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He is in top 100. The importance of his endless wins alone makes him important. But an all time great? The bar is much higher. He didn’t revolutionize how Americans view wrestling like an Angle or Michaels. He certainly can’t elicit the crowd reaction of a heel Hogan. Of no fault of his own, he doesn’t elevate anyone as a heel champion. On the contrary, it appears the feel good Big E run occurred just so he could eat shit and lose clean as a whistle, allowing a pass on the Uso finish for at least a month.

If he got the heat of the Honky Tonk Man or I’d ever seen a single Roman shirt in the wild, or anyone who doesn’t watch wrestling had the foggiest clue who he is, then his status would go up a bit.


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Angle did not revolutionise the business lol, come on. Angle was mostly a comedy guy who got occasional run in mainevent and didn't draw money.

Reigns isn't Hogan but we are talking 100 people+ ahead of him. I want someone to name 100 wrestlers that you could truly say drew more money/had better matches/mainevented more

Last 40 years Flair, Hogan, Rock, Austin, Cena for sure. Shawn, Bret, Taker maybe and now you are struggling. Reigns blows away Warriors work and his time in mainevent is much longer, Savage was better in 88-89 than Reigns for sure but Reigns has spent longer in mainevent and improving each year whereas Savage kinda drifted into midcard after 90 even in WCW

Really strange in the same week Reigns was on Fallon and had highest viewers in months to suggest nobody outside the business knows him. You know damn well Hollywood are licking their lips and see him as next Dwayne Johnson or John Cena in waiting.
 

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I don't know man I think he's probably still right around 100. But I understand the argument people will make. There are alot of folks who put way too much emphasis on the "WWE era" and completley ignore the previous 100 years of the sport. But we are probably not going to agree on that, and it's 100% okay. I think my only push back would be if people actually started talking top 20 with him. In the WWF only it makes much more sense but in a world wide history? I don't think so.
If we are talking modern era (84 to present) he is probably top 10

Despite all the smoke and mirrors the business really has created fuck all 'stars' past 40 odd years.

Especially last 30 where 'storylines' became the dominant fixture not individuals. A guy like Sting, never any real interest in the dude outside the NWO/Crow stuff. You can add in Nash and Hall too, both these guys without that storyline are footnotes in history but perceived big stars by the Monday night war fanbase.
 

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Maybe. It all depends on the next few years of his career tbh. I think he has a huge problem in that he has no genuine stars to go against right now on Smackdown. If Dbry was still around, or the likes of Cena on a permanent basis, Reigns would look 100x better than he already does. Working with the likes of Xavier isn't doing him any favours. Dude is obviously a great wrestler, but this time period in wrestling is really hampering anyone's shot of ever entering the GOAT conversation.
 

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As Austin said in 2003 'I am just a used gear, they will replace me with new gear and wheel keeps turning'. So yeah. But no not anyone could replace him, they pushed Mcintyre to the moon and interest in him was a fraction of Reigns.

Considering ppv was gone by the time Reigns mainevented his first your opening quote makes no sense. Its funny though Reigns mainevented Wrestlemania 31, 32, 33 and 34 and all were advanced sellout first time in history WWE sold out four stadium Wrestlemanias in a row. Wrestlemania 24, 25, 26 had lots of seats available day of show...

On ratings he increased raw ratings the night he appeared vs strong nfl competition. Even Austin could not do that in 2019.



Why isn't Shéamus close to top so. I mean he mainevented lots of shows in 2009-16.



So we can't give him credit for shows he mainevented, merch he sells ok



Test and Billy Gunn lol

Reigns was already over before he ever mainevented a ppv in singles capacity. You do not generate a reaction like he did at 2015 Rumble without the fans being interested in the person. As Bischoff said controversy equals cash..
When Austin and Rock left the wheels didn't keep turning though, they went through a pretty brutal 2004 until Cena and Batista got over. Sheamus didn't main event nearly as many shows as Reigns, especially not shows like Summerslam and Wrestlemania. Reigns got big negative reactions because he was the avatar of the establishment in a time where smarks dominated the live crowds, nothing more or less.

Angle did not revolutionise the business lol, come on. Angle was mostly a comedy guy who got occasional run in mainevent and didn't draw money.

Reigns isn't Hogan but we are talking 100 people+ ahead of him. I want someone to name 100 wrestlers that you could truly say drew more money/had better matches/mainevented more

Last 40 years Flair, Hogan, Rock, Austin, Cena for sure. Shawn, Bret, Taker maybe and now you are struggling. Reigns blows away Warriors work and his time in mainevent is much longer, Savage was better in 88-89 than Reigns for sure but Reigns has spent longer in mainevent and improving each year whereas Savage kinda drifted into midcard after 90 even in WCW

Really strange in the same week Reigns was on Fallon and had highest viewers in months to suggest nobody outside the business knows him. You know damn well Hollywood are licking their lips and see him as next Dwayne Johnson or John Cena in waiting.
You can dismiss Sting and Nash and Hall as one hit wonders, but at the end of the day, their one hits were way bigger and way more important than anything Reigns has ever done. And of course Randy Savage was better and a bigger deal, suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. Batista was easily bigger as well, still is. Triple H was a very vicious and credible heel who worked well with Austin and Rock, he also played a big part in getting Batista and Orton over and established Cena as well so you can add him too.

Rock
Hogan
Austin
Cena
Flair
Batista
Bret
Shawn
Undertaker
Triple H
Foley
Nash
Sting
Undertaker
Goldberg

That's 15 off the top of my head. And he hasn't really done anything to separate himself from guys like Orton, Hall, Edge, etc. He's just the avatar of a global companies who has been pushed nonstop for 6 years. Never drew a PPV, isn't drawing a house anymore than the brand already did for big shows.
 

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Well, by who? The WWE will absolutely put him on that pedestal as one of the all-time greats, and their braindead hardcore lifers will obviously continue slurping whatever is spoonfed to them. I'm sure his own fans will feel that way, and why not if he got the job done for them.

Everyone else?

I mean as far as the in-ring thing goes, I'm not sure he's one of the ten greatest wrestlers on Smackdown right now, let alone in all of WWE, let alone in all of America, let alone all the world, let alone EVER.

As far as the business side of it goes, unless something changes massively in the years ahead... No. The guy has done literally nothing to be considered in that conversation. Because they got a record TV deal on his tenure? Because he was in the main event of their biggest attended show ever? Be serious.

All that said I guess it depends on what your bar for being an all-time great is. Some people consider Randy Orton one, and I think Roman is a lot more comparable to him than guys like Cena, Hogan, etc. Probably ahead of him too, surely will end up being so.
 

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Reigns is the GOAT, no one of them.. HE'S THE GOAT.

Let's stop kidding ourselves, anyone having Reigns out of their top 30 is delusional as fuck.
 

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When Austin and Rock left the wheels didn't keep turning though, they went through a pretty brutal 2004 until Cena and Batista got over. Sheamus didn't main event nearly as many shows as Reigns, especially not shows like Summerslam and Wrestlemania. Reigns got big negative reactions because he was the avatar of the establishment in a time where smarks dominated the live crowds, nothing more or less.



You can dismiss Sting and Nash and Hall as one hit wonders, but at the end of the day, their one hits were way bigger and way more important than anything Reigns has ever done. And of course Randy Savage was better and a bigger deal, suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. Batista was easily bigger as well, still is. Triple H was a very vicious and credible heel who worked well with Austin and Rock, he also played a big part in getting Batista and Orton over and established Cena as well so you can add him too.

Rock
Hogan
Austin
Cena
Flair
Batista
Bret
Shawn
Undertaker
Triple H
Foley
Nash
Sting
Undertaker
Goldberg

That's 15 off the top of my head. And he hasn't really done anything to separate himself from guys like Orton, Hall, Edge, etc. He's just the avatar of a global companies who has been pushed nonstop for 6 years. Never drew a PPV, isn't drawing a house anymore than the brand already did for big shows.
Reigns is definitely greater than Nash, Bret, Foley and Sting.

Sting is my favorite character ever but his peak was short as hell, the rest don't even have a case.
 
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