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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have established veteran and developed personality Edge facing Dolph Ziggler, who isn't much in the personality department beyond his association with vickie, at the Royal Rumble. Though this is possibly the worst time to give Ziggler the belt, I beleive Ziggler can be given a decent reign post-Wrestlemania. I beleive a decent reign by Ziggler (that isn't cut short before a decent climax) would be a perfect chance to inject some much needed character in the other wrestlers and why I beleive Ziggler's lack of personality isn't THAT much of a drawback.

The fundamental aspect of personality in how it applies to characters is that, though the characters with the most endearing and developed personalities should get most of the character focus (along with mic time and writing behind them), it doesn't necessitate that they are the most powerful or physically capable characters on the show. Personality sells and we all know that, but ONLY to the extent that the surrounding events of the show (overarching plots and individual character goals) are compelling as well.

The key to Ziggler as champion is that he is CREDIBLE and could conceivably beat everyone else on the show (aside from maybe Big Show) if not for WWE conditioning the audience that the guys with more personality are more credible by default. Ziggler wouldn't be a draw and I wouldn't suggest otherwise; he in reality would ultimately amount to the definitive obstacle towards the main objective. However, if Ziggler is protected enough, he would give a big boost to whoever ultimately dethorned him.


I have acknowledged Ziggler not being that interesting. The key here is that, in cohesion to the italicize earlier, though beating Ziggler would be the ultimate objective, it doesn't necessitate that all the character focus would be around him. Said focus would instead be around the faces chasing him. The key is that Ziggler must be afforded the room to beat any challenger credibly and for said challenger to not be afforded extra opprotunities at Ziggler; this would make the title scene interesting and unpredictable. Firstly, it adds a dimension to the faces who failed against Ziggler in how they may respond, secondly give creative room to build or set up feuds for down the road between the more interesting characters without needing to hot shot stuff in order to fill out a title match, and thirdly, can give the audience an idea of where midcarders may stand in regards to their ability to compete as Ziggler, assuming he's maintained as credible, could afford to be given matches with the midcarders on TV without said midcarders interfering in developing storylines.

Ziggler would be used a transitional champ admittedly; he adds to the roster, but I don't consider him having the potential to develop into a draw. But using him as a transitional champ gives the writers time to sort out and ddevelop the roster and give the higher acts more character development and even more opprotunities to work with the midcarders with future prospects without the championship scene taking away too much focus.

(Note that I am not going to hold my breath on WWE doing something like this. I just wanted to see how you forum goers would respond.)
 

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How do you misspell believe twice with "beleive"?

But yeah...its funny that people on this forum say Kofi has no personality or gimmick, so he can he can't be champion, but then turn around and vouch for Ziggler becoming champion.
 
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- Ziggler doesn't have credibility, therefore there's no reason to protect him.
- With no credibility, him beating challenger after challenger clean would diminish their credibility.
-Every title reign needs at least one feud and WWE wouldn't want to throw challenger after challenger at a champion for risk of wasting a potential long term feud.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
- Ziggler doesn't have credibility, therefore there's no reason to protect him.
If your going to push him or give him a more prominent role, then that necessiates protecting him. Maybe not NOW, but definitely after Wrestlemania if their still high on him. And secondly, he's skilled enough in the ring as well as large enough to conceivably beat most of the wrestlers on the roster. Only the fans being conditioned to expect the guy with more personality to win is what stops him from credibility.

-Every title reign needs at least one feud and WWE wouldn't want to throw challenger after challenger at a champion for risk of wasting a potential long term feud.
A feud doesn't necessiate a bunch of rematches over the course of multiple PPVs. And more importantly, I outright stated that I'd use Ziggler as a transitional champion (provided one thats credible and given a decent run with the title in terms of length) in order to give more focus in developing the roster by while mixing the current headliners of the brand to work programs with the rest of the roster without putting too much focus on the title scene (given how said title scene consumes about 70% of the characterization of current Smackdown headliners).

Furthermore, the story behind my theoretical Ziggler title run would be his conquest of the current title scene and the faces competing with each other (and the other heels) on who'd be the one to take the belt of him. I don't think its a necessity for Ziggler to need a personal feud, just an ultimate point to his title reign.
 

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If your going to push him or give him a more prominent role, then that necessiates protecting him. Maybe not NOW, but definitely after Wrestlemania if their still high on him. And secondly, he's skilled enough in the ring as well as large enough to conceivably beat most of the wrestlers on the roster. Only the fans being conditioned to expect the guy with more personality to win is what stops him from credibility.

A feud doesn't necessiate a bunch of rematches over the course of multiple PPVs. And more importantly, I outright stated that I'd use Ziggler as a transitional champion (provided one thats credible and given a decent run with the title in terms of length) in order to give more focus in developing the roster by while mixing the current headliners of the brand to work programs with the rest of the roster without putting too much focus on the title scene (given how said title scene consumes about 70% of the characterization of current Smackdown headliners).

Furthermore, the story behind my theoretical Ziggler title run would be his conquest of the current title scene and the faces competing with each other (and the other heels) on who'd be the one to take the belt of him. I don't think its a necessity for Ziggler to need a personal feud, just an ultimate point to his title reign.
- Most of the roster aren't main eventers, he can beat guys like Barreta & Masters but i wouldn't do anything for his standing in the main event.
What matters is if he can pick up wins against the small group of main eventers, he can stand toe to toe with them and look good but he'll still need those W's.

- A feud needs to stretch two at least 2 ppvs, two people feud over a belt for 3 to 4 weeks only for there to be ONE title match ?
So a guy like Edge would unsuccessfully challenge for the belt only to move on to a fued with say....Jack Swagger ? and this pattern would go on and on.

- A title reign like that could not work with someone like Ziggler, that sounds like Triple H's 2002-2005 run.
A reign like that would do damage to main eventers, who is this guy who all of a sudden is beating wrestlers like Mysterio and Edge clean.
He'd have to gain SOME credibility in the beginning of his title chase.
 

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lack of personality?

dude is very charismatic no the best on the mic but he has a personality
What show are you watching? Dolph Ziggler does not have a personality. What is his gimmick or character other then being Vickie's stooge or puppet? Dolph Ziggler is one WWE's perfect bland Heels in the business.

It may not be Ziggler's fault which I will go on the record and say it really isn't but WWE right now has really put the spotlight on Vickie more so Ziggler-he basically in the background just nodding his head or just agreeing whatever Vickie is saying. Ziggler should not be a World champion due to his lack of character, gimmick or even presence for that matter. There is nothing at the moment that screams "World Champion" for Ziggler.

He got time to improve but as of right now? he is way out of his league, he is not even in Miz's league.
 

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That was a good post, OP. But I still think Edge is winning, which I have no problems with as a Ziggler mark.

A WHC match at RR helps build up Dolph's credibility alone, a title run isn't necessary just yet for that. If they did put the title on him so soon it could be too early and could end up destroying his character (ie. Swagger). But a steady build could end up helping him in the long run. If they let Ziggler look good @ RR, they could do him a whole lot of favors without having to risk a title run with him.

What I expect to happen to help put Ziggler over as one of the top heels this year is a strong showing but not winner v Edge @ RR (ie. Kennedy at RR07), then another good showing in the Elimination Chamber (say, 3rd place) which could help his career even further by making him look strong again SmackDown's main eventers, and then to top it all off a win in MITB at WrestleMania. After that they might wait a few months or so before Ziggler cashes it in and wins his first World title. That way WWE could give him credibility before risking putting the title on him so soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
- Most of the roster aren't main eventers, he can beat guys like Barreta & Masters but i wouldn't do anything for his standing in the main event.
What matters is if he can pick up wins against the small group of main eventers, he can stand toe to toe with them and look good but he'll still need those W's.
Please tell me how Ziggler couldn't conceivably beat guys like Edge or Mysterio or anybody on the roster aside from Show and Kane? You keep missing this point I have repeatedly highlighted, "The only reason why Ziggler couldn't perceivably beat the main eventers is because fans are conditioned to expect the guy with more personality win". Ziggler could pass as world champ (even if only a transitional champ) if his sheer skill and talent was played up by the announcers, even over his opponent's experience.

- A feud needs to stretch two at least 2 ppvs, two people feud over a belt for 3 to 4 weeks only for there to be ONE title match ?
So a guy like Edge would unsuccessfully challenge for the belt only to move on to a fued with say....Jack Swagger ? and this pattern would go on and on.
For God's sake, read over my posts more carefully and maybe you'd understand my point better. Ziggler's role as champion as I suggest is mainly to serve as a placemark for the world title scene. The roster needs a character overhaul and Ziggler would serve as the guy to beat while the rest of the roster is developed character wise and guys like Mysterio and Edge can be given programs with some of the more prospective midcarders to help develop them while Ziggler stabalizes the championship scene.

I'll admit I misworded the whole PPV part to an extent. Guys can challenge him over multiple PPVs, but Ziggler must be allowed to decisively go over his opponents in the end, even if they are main eventers, and there must also be a willingness to replace guys with new challengers as opposed to the same guys getting title shots over and over again. But again, I suggest this with the idea of developing a core group of talents character wise over the comming months as opposed to basing the show around hyping the title match.

It would be something of a reboot of the roster, character wise, and Ziggler would be the guy holding the championship because of two things:

1. He could be accepted as a champion by sheer talent and skill provided he's protected and the TV show doesn't exactly have to center around him like JUST because he's champion (as long as he's protected and taken seriously). He wouldn't be much of a PPV draw, but I'm suggesting giving him the title KNOWING this and focusing the attention on developing the upper-midcard more.

2. The championship by its nature is a booking crutch and, at this low point of Smackdown's roster strength, I beleive its more important to seriously try and get a fresh pool of contenders over with the audience (and having them in strong programs with Edge, Mysterio, and Show would really help) rather than trying to keep the floundering division proped up with 3 stale acts in Mysterio, Edge, and Show along with Del Rio and Corre even if it means putting the title scene on the backburner (though still in the public conscious) for a while in terms of focus given to it.


- A title reign like that could not work with someone like Ziggler, that sounds like Triple H's 2002-2005 run.
A reign like that would do damage to main eventers, who is this guy who all of a sudden is beating wrestlers like Mysterio and Edge clean.
He'd have to gain SOME credibility in the beginning of his title chase.
Actually, it would be more like JBL's emergency reign (except with making Ziggler more credible) than Triple H's constant domination of the title scene.

And as far as the fear damaging Main Eventers goes, a main eventer should be able to easily pick themselves up from any set back. The key thing about who we accept as Main Eventers is that they have strong personalities and the audeince is hugely behind them; that doesn't necessarily make them the most powerful, most capable characters on the show. The key thing about the guy like Edge and Mysterio is that they are the ones most capable of giving underdeveloped talent a rub and getting them more over, much like Mysterio initially did for Del Rio, but its harder to use them in this capacity when they're constantly in the title scene.

I KNOW that Ziggler is less over than the main eventers, but I beleive he can be accepted as credible enough to be champion on the current Smackdown roster (what with there being a difference between how much the audience responds to him and how much the audience perceives him as credible). I'm suggesting using him to hold the fort while you're getting your roster developed, character wise.
 

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I was just thinking how great it would be to slowly turn Ziggler face.

Have Kane interfere in the Ziggler/Edge match. Ziggler goes backstage, cuts a promo saying how dissapointed he was. Saying how he doesn't want to be with Vickie anymore because it puts a target on his back. Have him take out Kane during his entrance to the Rumble. Have Kane come out on SmackDown demanding Dolph. Have Dolph come out and attack Kane resulting in a mini-brawl that ends with both men seperated by security. Have Dolph cut a promo saying that his first and only chance at the Title was ruined due to being Vickie, and now things are going to change. Have him say that he's going to fight honorably and earn his title shot, no shortcuts and hopefully he's left alone during his matches.

That shit's magic right there. Booking at its simplest. Have Dolph go over Kane in a 1 on 1 match and bam, you have your next top face right there.
 

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hell no, they put vicki with him for a reason. by himself, he's a nobody, no matter how good he is in the ring.
 

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Please tell me how Ziggler couldn't conceivably beat guys like Edge or Mysterio or anybody on the roster aside from Show and Kane? You keep missing this point I have repeatedly highlighted, "The only reason why Ziggler couldn't perceivably beat the main eventers is because fans are conditioned to expect the guy with more personality win". Ziggler could pass as world champ (even if only a transitional champ) if his sheer skill and talent was played up by the announcers, even over his opponent's experience.

For God's sake, read over my posts more carefully and maybe you'd understand my point better. Ziggler's role as champion as I suggest is mainly to serve as a placemark for the world title scene. The roster needs a character overhaul and Ziggler would serve as the guy to beat while the rest of the roster is developed character wise and guys like Mysterio and Edge can be given programs with some of the more prospective midcarders to help develop them while Ziggler stabalizes the championship scene.

I'll admit I misworded the whole PPV part to an extent. Guys can challenge him over multiple PPVs, but Ziggler must be allowed to decisively go over his opponents in the end, even if they are main eventers, and there must also be a willingness to replace guys with new challengers as opposed to the same guys getting title shots over and over again. But again, I suggest this with the idea of developing a core group of talents character wise over the comming months as opposed to basing the show around hyping the title match.

It would be something of a reboot of the roster, character wise, and Ziggler would be the guy holding the championship because of two things:

1. He could be accepted as a champion by sheer talent and skill provided he's protected and the TV show doesn't exactly have to center around him like JUST because he's champion (as long as he's protected and taken seriously). He wouldn't be a PPV draw, but nobody is at this point aside from Cena.

2. The championship by its nature is a booking crutch and, at this low point of Smackdown's roster strength, I beleive its more important to seriously try and get a fresh pool of contenders over with the audience (and having them in strong programs with Edge, Mysterio, and Show would really help) rather than trying to keep the floundering division proped up with 3 stale acts in Mysterio, Edge, and Show along with Del Rio and Corre even if it means putting the title scene on the backburner (though still in the public conscious) for a while in terms of focus given to it.

Actually, it would be more like JBL's emergency reign (except with making Ziggler more credible) than Triple H's constant domination of the title scene.

And as far as the fear damaging Main Eventers goes, a main eventer should be able to easily pick themselves up from any set back. The key thing about who we accept as Main Eventers is that they have strong personalities and the audeince is hugely behind them; that doesn't necessarily make them the most powerful, most capable characters on the show. The key thing about the guy like Edge and Mysterio is that they are the ones most capable of giving underdeveloped talent a rub and getting them more over, much like Mysterio initially did for Del Rio, but its harder to use them in this capacity when they're constantly in the title scene.

I KNOW that Ziggler is less over than the main eventers, but I beleive he can be accepted as credible enough to be champion on the current Smackdown roster (what with there being a difference between how much the audience responds to him and how much the audience perceives him as credible). I'm suggesting using him to hold the fort while you're getting your roster developed, character wise.
- He couldn't conceivably beat guys like Mysterio or Edge he's never beat anyone in their league or been put in situations were he's seen as being in their league.

He facing Edge at the Royal Rumble but the most talk about thing is why and how he's a better boyfriend than Edge.

ADR beats Mysterio clean in his first match during his first night on SD, while Ziggler except once has been beaten down and downplayed simply because Edge needs to remind Vickie why we cheated and then dumped her.

- WWE doesn't like doing one-on-one heel matches so we'd get Edge, Mysterio, Show & Kingston.
That's good for a 6 month reign, with Edge & Mysterio getting back-to-back matches with him on PPV.

- He'll go over them but it won't be clean, he can't be going over every challenger clean.

- Aceepted by the WWE ? yes
Accepted by the fans at home ? no

- The Championship would still need to be given attention, if it's not the #1 focus to should be a very close 2nd.

- JBL never best anyone decisively.
You're asking for a heel to decisively beat opponent after opponent including some high profile wrestlers.

- Edge and Mysterio putting over guys should be spread out, not happen one after the other.
 
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