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He isn't as marketable as Roman.


The marketable excuse is moot at this stage. It held up in January 2015 when the question was still unanswered. Not so much in June 19, 2016. They've marketed Roman for over two years and attendance and ratings have only declined more drastically than they were before hand. He's on every commercial. Hes on RAWs intro video to begin and end it. Every talkshow. On nearly every poster. This is even the first time I can recall the damn champion being on the MITB Poster with....the MITB briefcase. If it was possible and they thought it'd get him over, he'd win the MITB, lose the title to Seth tonight, and cash in immediately after.


They've marketed and pushed Roman harder than anyone on the roster, and he hasn't done jack shit with it. There's zero proof he's more marketable than the likes of 90% of the upper card if they received the same two year push. He ain't The Rock or Hulk Hogan. It takes more to be marketable than one finding a guy hot, exotic, or having "the look" which is partially why interest is approaching an all time low.
 

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The first time i saw Reigns i thought that they want him to be another copy of Taker.

He wears black attire, has a long hair, not bad or good .. this is exactly the Undertaker. He also get mad when he is uncleanly pinned or when he gets disrespected, same personality as Taker.

He's got Undertaker's Suicide Dive and the best "Goldberg" finisher. The only difference between him and Taker is that he is modest, he respects his opponents, when someone talks to him he listens to him and shakes his head like saying "Go ahead buddy, i'm listening".

He has the look of the Undertaker but his personality and psychology is different. What's wrong here ? Why he is not getting the same reaction that Taker gets ? They should have focused on his personality rather than the look. Look with 0 charisma and weak character is not gonna work.
 

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WWE (Vince) are (is) stuck in this archaic mindset that their FOTC has to look a certain way, despite the FACT that....

A) Roman isn't drawing shit as champion.

B) The only two guys that have come close to Cena levels of marketability over the last several years have been Punk and Bryan, who most certainly didn't have "the look".

There really shouldn't be just one guy at the top, it should be a number of guys (at least until a clear cut FOTC candidate emerges.) However, even if one does emerge (or already has), WWE's archaic mindset that "da look" still holds that type of value in 2016 will likely squash any potential momentum said performer may garner.
 

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Because Vince. Vince is not like other old school bookers or his dad. He's stubborn. Many bookers, even if they wanted to build up somebody else, would have payed attention to how hot someone got and go with them.
 

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This is the correct answer. Roman outsells every suggested alternative.

@RetepAdam. The Diesel over Michaels argument does you no favors, considering Michaels was one of the lowest drawing champions of all time. It's not like Rollins was selling out house shows as champion either.
That's why I made the comparison. Because it was apt.

Neither Diesel nor HBK was an effective draw as champion during the New Era. (Though at least in Shawn's defense, he was going directly up against the nWo). Though in the end, I would argue that HBK's talent shone through, allowing him to continue to be a star well into the next decade while Nash's star kind of burned out over the years.

Similarly, neither Reigns nor Rollins draws all that well, so maybe the focus shouldn't be on the guy and which one squeezes the tiniest bit more water out of that rock.

Either way, I think that the answer isn't to have either guy as THE GUY. You should have a group of top guys including those two who help prop up the show. At least until there's someone legitimately capable of being THE GUY on your roster.

(And it goes without saying, but do a goddamn double-turn.)
 

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That's why I made the comparison. Because it was apt.

Neither Diesel nor HBK was an effective draw as champion during the New Era. (Though at least in Shawn's defense, he was going directly up against the nWo). Though in the end, I would argue that HBK's talent shone through, allowing him to continue to be a star well into the next decade while Nash's star kind of burned out over the years.

Similarly, neither Reigns nor Rollins draws all that well, so maybe the focus shouldn't be on the guy and which one squeezes the tiniest bit more water out of that rock.

Either way, I think that the answer isn't to have either guy as THE GUY. You should have a group of top guys including those two who help prop up the show. At least until there's someone legitimately capable of being THE GUY on your roster.

(And it goes without saying, but do a goddamn double-turn.)
I agree. I still think there should be a top star, but I'm also of the mind that here should be at least 3 or 4 other guys right there with him. That's basically how it was in the old days.
 

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That's why I made the comparison. Because it was apt.

Neither Diesel nor HBK was an effective draw as champion during the New Era. (Though at least in Shawn's defense, he was going directly up against the nWo). Though in the end, I would argue that HBK's talent shone through, allowing him to continue to be a star well into the next decade while Nash's star kind of burned out over the years.

Similarly, neither Reigns nor Rollins draws all that well, so maybe the focus shouldn't be on the guy and which one squeezes the tiniest bit more water out of that rock.

Either way, I think that the answer isn't to have either guy as THE GUY. You should have a group of top guys including those two who help prop up the show. At least until there's someone legitimately capable of being THE GUY on your roster.

(And it goes without saying, but do a goddamn double-turn.)
Then I agree. Perceived talent is irrelevant in the top guy discussion when Hogan is indisputably top 3 of all time. It all comes down to marketability.
 

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Just using the sort by best selling feature on WWE's shop, New Day, Enzo & Cass, Styles, Cena, and Rollins all have items/t-shirts ranked higher than Romans, and that's just page one. He isn't even on page one, ad this is with the man being featured next to John Cena everyone you load up the site. Roman was also supposedly the #2 merchandise mover last year but as we found out earlier this year, in reality he was outsold by Daniel Bryan, a guy who many of Reigns' fans lauded as a vanilla midget and B+ player. Oh, and he missed 90% of the calander year, too.



The fact Ambrose is rivaling his numbers at house shows and seems to be next in line for a monster push is even more foreboding. Considering the fact Reigns has headlined two consecutive WM's, he isn't moving anywhere near the amount of merchandise that would correlate to his relentless push, nor is he putting asses in seats. Cena has been out of the title picture for right at a year and Roman hasn't even made a dent in catching him in sales. I personally can't wait for the actual numbers to be revealed. :lol


You give Austin or Rock this push and they'd have lapped John ten times over. Those guys actually moved numbers that corelated to their spot on the card. Roman only moves as much as he does because he's secured the female portion of the audience (a good thing) and he's been the strongest booked face on either roster outside of Brock Lesnar. He isn't breaking the bank or running away with it and as such, he's easily replaced with any random upper card guy this company throws the entire machine and kitchen sink behind for two straight years. He should be posting Austin 3:16 numbers but if anything, he's slowing down and bring outsold by goofs such as New Day. You factor in ratings with him on top and his house show attendance dropping 30% and yeah. The merchandise excuse is just as laughable and played as the marketable one.


It isn't rooted in anything tangible and definitely hasn't manifested itself with any numbers outside of YouTube and Instagram.
 

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That's why I made the comparison. Because it was apt.

Neither Diesel nor HBK was an effective draw as champion during the New Era. (Though at least in Shawn's defense, he was going directly up against the nWo). Though in the end, I would argue that HBK's talent shone through, allowing him to continue to be a star well into the next decade while Nash's star kind of burned out over the years.

Similarly, neither Reigns nor Rollins draws all that well, so maybe the focus shouldn't be on the guy and which one squeezes the tiniest bit more water out of that rock.

Either way, I think that the answer isn't to have either guy as THE GUY. You should have a group of top guys including those two who help prop up the show. At least until there's someone legitimately capable of being THE GUY on your roster.

(And it goes without saying, but do a goddamn double-turn.)
You know, I understand the whole thing about numbers falling on the shoulders of the champ, but your comparison is accurate for another reason not mentioned: Both of these eras represent a creative low point for the company.

I know it's simple to make the blanket statement that Roman, Nash, HBK or Rollins aren't huge draws, especially in comparison to Austin and Rock, but are we really going to pretend like creative and their supporting cast don't have anything to do with that either?

Is there any era where huge numbers are drawn while the majority of the show is crap? Certainly didn't happen in 96 when the NWO and WCW were peaking and it wasn't the case 2-3 years later when Raw was entertaining from top to bottom. That's not taking anything away from the big guys, but they weren't saddled with the type of creative foolishness we see today. When they were, they yielded a Ring Master and a "Die, Rocky. Die!" chant.

Also to @Legit BOSS's point, it's nearly impossible to compare anyone's numbers to Reigns' fairly considering the amount of protection his character receives in the ring. We'd need numbers produced after someone received comparable booking, and that has yet to happen.
 

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Just using the sort by best selling feature on WWE's shop, New Day, Enzo & Cass, Styles, Cena, and Rollins all have items/t-shirts ranked higher than Romans, and that's just page one. He isn't even on page one, ad this is with the man being featured next to John Cena everyone you load up the site. Roman was also supposedly the #2 merchandise mover last year but as we found out earlier this year, in reality he was outsold by Daniel Bryan, a guy who many of Reigns' fans lauded as a vanilla midget and B+ player. Oh, and he missed 90% of the calander year, too.



The fact Ambrose is rivaling his numbers at house shows and seems to be next in line for a monster push is even more foreboding. Considering the fact Reigns has headlined two consecutive WM's, he isn't moving anywhere near the amount of merchandise that would correlate to his relentless push, nor is he putting asses in seats. Cena has been out of the title picture for right at a year and Roman hasn't even made a dent in catching him in sales. I personally can't wait for the actual numbers to be revealed. :lol


You give Austin or Rock this push and they'd have lapped John ten times over. Those guys actually moved numbers that corelated to their spot on the card. Roman only moves as much as he does because he's secured the female portion of the audience (a good thing) and he's been the strongest booked face on either roster outside of Brock Lesnar. He isn't breaking the bank or running away with it and as such, he's easily replaced with any random upper card guy this company throws the entire machine and kitchen sink behind for two straight years. He should be posting Austin 3:16 numbers but if anything, he's slowing down and bring outsold by goofs such as New Day. You factor in ratings with him on top and his house show attendance dropping 30% and yeah. The merchandise excuse is just as laughable and played as the marketable one.


It isn't rooted in anything tangible and definitely hasn't manifested itself with any numbers outside of YouTube and Instagram.
Yep, Rollins' new merch is selling quite well. Since he's come back, he's had THREE new shirts added on the WWE Shop site. He must be selling well since coming back. 3 shirts in 3-4 weeks is quite impressive.

Also, glad to see someone brought up HBK going up against the NWO when they were brand new in 1996 when talking about drawing. Diesel didn't even go up against them when Champ in 1995.

And to The Renegades' correct point, Rollins drawing what he drew last year with ZERO protection to his character is quite impressive. Drew more with Rollins' losing so often on TV than what they are drawing NOW, both in terms of Ratings and House Show attendance.
 

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Because he's trash. He has the built of a cruiserweight plus he's not even good on the mic. He's just as bad as Reigns and because of that he will pushed up our ass just like him but in a lesser role.
 
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