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I mean, the storyline really wrote itself.

but the main guys on the WCW team were WWF wrestlers and employees, the WCW guys were made to look terrible and were all heels.

Did vince purposefully set about to bury WCW, or do you think it was just unfortunate booking.
 

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This thread again? Let me keep it simple.

1. WWE couldn't use the big stars (Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Steiner, etc.) because they all had guaranteed contracts.
2. Without these big stars, the WCW/ECW contingent didn't have anybody important enough to rival the top WWE guys.
3. And to avoid making the conflict look one-sided, the writers had people like Austin and Angle join the Alliance to make them look like a real threat.
 

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I mean, the storyline really wrote itself.

but the main guys on the WCW team were WWF wrestlers and employees, the WCW guys were made to look terrible and were all heels.

Did vince purposefully set about to bury WCW, or do you think it was just unfortunate booking.
The reactions from the crowd swayed the original stoyline. The WCW was planned to be made the "good guys" going into invasion to fight and defend their product from Mcmahon.

However the wwf crowd heavily booed and disliked the WCW guys during their tryout matches on WWF programming, so it was obvious trying to pass them of as the faces was not going to work.

Eitherway it was a product of their own undoing they wanted to pass the invasion storyline before guys like Goldberg, Hogan, Hall, Nash, Mysterio, etc, were free from their contracts or available.
 

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First off, the Storyline was great, WWE didn't have the WCW Talent, cause a lot were sitting out their Contract. Still was written very good.
Second WWE never wanted the "WCW Guys" to be over, besides Goldberg, they buried everyone
Third, how are WCW Guys not gonna be Heels? It's WWE Land, those are WWE Fans watching, when WCW got mentioned during the War they had the most heat cause it was the other Company, them being faces would have been wrong.
 

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I heard Vince was supposedly interested in looking for a network to air WCW seperately at least til Invasion to help with the whole Father - Son competition storyline but it never came to fruition which is why they brought them to WWF TV instead.

This also is what later lead to the idea of the brand split.
 

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I lived the entire era and angle was one of my favorite time periods in wrestling.
 

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This thread again? Let me keep it simple.

1. WWE couldn't use the big stars (Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Steiner, etc.) because they all had guaranteed contracts.
2. Without these big stars, the WCW/ECW contingent didn't have anybody important enough to rival the top WWE guys.
3. And to avoid making the conflict look one-sided, the writers had people like Austin and Angle join the Alliance to make them look like a real threat.
Pretty much.
 

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Stephanie McMahon was in charge of ECW. I mean, damn...you can't make many worse choices than that.
Plus, Sting was the face of WCW. He was the man in that company and who did we have instead? Booker fucking T. Whoop-dee-doo.
 

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I think it could have played out much better if they had used Jericho and Big Show to join the Alliance instead of Angle and Austin. They were the two biggest stars in WCW that came over during the Monday Night Wars. Sure, Austin started off in WCW, but he was a completely different character, and Angle made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
 

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I think it could have played out much better if they had used Jericho and Big Show to join the Alliance instead of Angle and Austin. They were the two biggest stars in WCW that came over during the Monday Night Wars. Sure, Austin started off in WCW, but he was a completely different character, and Angle made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Angle didnt join the alliance, he betrayed them.
 

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First off, the Storyline was great, WWE didn't have the WCW Talent, cause a lot were sitting out their Contract. Still was written very good.
Second WWE never wanted the "WCW Guys" to be over, besides Goldberg, they buried everyone
Third, how are WCW Guys not gonna be Heels? It's WWE Land, those are WWE Fans watching, when WCW got mentioned during the War they had the most heat cause it was the other Company, them being faces would have been wrong.
I disagree. Listen to the pops Booker T and DDP got when they first appeared. They got bigger pops than anyone on the roster. So there was a huge chance to portray them as faces. It was all up to the booking team and the wrestlers abilty to keep them over as faces. This did not work out.

Booker and DDP were booked so poorly and the match between Booker and Bagwell was awful and that's what made WWF fans angry and that's why they booed them.

The perfect example to prove you wrong however are the Outsiders. In fans minds they were WWF guys coming in their WCW land. Yet still fans cheered them to no end and even booed their WCW guys. Why? Because the booking was great first and foremost. And even with less workrate than before in the WWF, they were just as good as any other WCW main eventer. (well maybe except Flair)

In my opinion 3 things stopped the Invasion angle from being a huge success:

1. Lack of WCW main eventers: WCW guys (rightfully so) wanted to sit out their contracts with AOL/Time Warner instead of getting paid 50 cent per dollar and work 300 days a year. WWF is to blame here solely because they did not offer the WCW guys the money they deserved for them to come in.

2. The networks: Vince tried to gain a time slot on basically every single network that there was to show WCW programming, but none wanted to have anything to do with the WCW name (WCW just lost over 100 million the year before). So Vince decided to make Raw or Smackdown become WCW Nitro for some time, that however was cancelled after the poorly worked Booker/Bagwell match and the lack of fans interest in those WCW stars involved during the tryout of WCW Nitro during Raw. Also, TNN and UPN were not happy that Raw or Smackdown would be named Nitro (because of ratings going down obviously). So this one is not WWFs fault.

3. Terrible booking/Ego: Again all WWFs fault.

Remember back in 1996, WCW started this huge angle that would later become known as the NWO with just two guys, Hall and Nash. One main eventer (Nash) and one topcarder (Hall). WWF in 2001 had Booker T and DDP, two main eventers. And one of them was the current WCW champion.

I think we can really compare those two duos because Hall/Nash were not bigger than Booker/DDP. So why had WCW so much success with their two outsiders and WWF did not? Answer is simple, WCW booked them as a real threat to the whole company. When they were joined by Hogan, they were unstoppable, and fans went even more crazy for them. Now imagine, Booker and DDP were booked as a threat to the whole WWF, and were then joined by say Goldberg at the Invasion PPV. Can you imgaine how fans would have loved them?!

This has nothing to do with someone being a WCW or WWF guy. When Hall and Nash joined WCW, they became WCW guys, so WCW booked them accordingly. Whenever WWF got someone from WCW, they treated them like WCW guys, even though they were now just as much WWF guys as anybody else in the lockerroom. Therefore Taker did immediately bury DDP and Booker tapped to Angle and Jericho in his first two WWF matches.

Then they had the WWF guy, Austin, join WCW as their leader to further symbolize how weak Booker and DDP were and that they needed WWF guys to make their group look strong. And that was the end right then and there.
 

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This thread again? Let me keep it simple.

1. WWE couldn't use the big stars (Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Steiner, etc.) because they all had guaranteed contracts.
2. Without these big stars, the WCW/ECW contingent didn't have anybody important enough to rival the top WWE guys.
3. And to avoid making the conflict look one-sided, the writers had people like Austin and Angle join the Alliance to make them look like a real threat.
This, sums it up.

Plus, they ended up revolving the story around Vince, Shane and Stephanie as a family feud, which overshadowed any sub plots.
 

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I disagree. Listen to the pops Booker T and DDP got when they first appeared. They got bigger pops than anyone on the roster. So there was a huge chance to portray them as faces. It was all up to the booking team and the wrestlers abilty to keep them over as faces. This did not work out.

Booker and DDP were booked so poorly and the match between Booker and Bagwell was awful and that's what made WWF fans angry and that's why they booed them.

The perfect example to prove you wrong however are the Outsiders. In fans minds they were WWF guys coming in their WCW land. Yet still fans cheered them to no end and even booed their WCW guys. Why? Because the booking was great first and foremost. And even with less workrate than before in the WWF, they were just as good as any other WCW main eventer. (well maybe except Flair)

In my opinion 3 things stopped the Invasion angle from being a huge success:

1. Lack of WCW main eventers: WCW guys (rightfully so) wanted to sit out their contracts with AOL/Time Warner instead of getting paid 50 cent per dollar and work 300 days a year. WWF is to blame here solely because they did not offer the WCW guys the money they deserved for them to come in.

2. The networks: Vince tried to gain a time slot on basically every single network that there was to show WCW programming, but none wanted to have anything to do with the WCW name (WCW just lost over 100 million the year before). So Vince decided to make Raw or Smackdown become WCW Nitro for some time, that however was cancelled after the poorly worked Booker/Bagwell match and the lack of fans interest in those WCW stars involved during the tryout of WCW Nitro during Raw. Also, TNN and UPN were not happy that Raw or Smackdown would be named Nitro (because of ratings going down obviously). So this one is not WWFs fault.

3. Terrible booking/Ego: Again all WWFs fault.

Remember back in 1996, WCW started this huge angle that would later become known as the NWO with just two guys, Hall and Nash. One main eventer (Nash) and one topcarder (Hall). WWF in 2001 had Booker T and DDP, two main eventers. And one of them was the current WCW champion.

I think we can really compare those two duos because Hall/Nash were not bigger than Booker/DDP. So why had WCW so much success with their two outsiders and WWF did not? Answer is simple, WCW booked them as a real threat to the whole company. When they were joined by Hogan, they were unstoppable, and fans went even more crazy for them. Now imagine, Booker and DDP were booked as a threat to the whole WWF, and were then joined by say Goldberg at the Invasion PPV. Can you imgaine how fans would have loved them?!

This has nothing to do with someone being a WCW or WWF guy. When Hall and Nash joined WCW, they became WCW guys, so WCW booked them accordingly. Whenever WWF got someone from WCW, they treated them like crap because they were WCW guys, even though they were now just as much WWF guys as anybody else in the lockerroom. That's the main reason why NWO was top and the Invasion angle was a flop.
Dude, dont write me a book.

And what, the booking was horrible, the Fans thought that, and booed the Wrestlers? That doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Secondly Booker was pushed greatly, and yes he was over, DDP was okay i guess, but i never saw him as a legit Main Eventer. And hell no they weren't more over then The Rock and Stone Cold, hell even the ECW Guy RVD was 10 times more over.It's just simple, it's the WWF, so why should they even play Faces when they were over? In the end WWF was gonna go over, you want the Faces to be that and who would want WCW to go over anyway?

I am no WCW expert, but that was WCW, and that is WWF, it's simple, but that's the way it is. There always was a very negativ vibe from WWE Fans when mentioned WCW, it was that hick promotion in Atlanta....And i don't really see them being better then the whole WCW Roster, besides the Fact that it's not true, the average WWE Fan doesn't look for Mic Skills, Wrestling Skills and rate the Wrestlers. Either you entertain them or not, it's that simple. So you gotta have a great Character or something else, but the average fan doesn't care for workrate.

1.You are right that it would have been dumb to say no tothat money and go towork for half of it, you might argue that you would have a advantage, but actually the guys coming in later were treated better. But i don't see why WWF should have bought them out of their Contracts, most WCW Main Eventers were overpayed and didn't really draw like they use to(Goldberg, Sting and Hogan taken out of that), and even with those i don't see how they could make that much money to even make even for the huge Contracts.

2.It was the right thing to stop Nitro, nobody cared for WCW anymore, the Ratings showed, so actually producing a Show that didn't do great Ratings anymore and adding the fact that the People knew the Company was out of Business, i think the Ratings would have shrinked even more.

3.I liked the Feud and i thought it went all like it should have, the Series ME was a blast and the perfect blow off.

The Outsiders thing worked, cause people thought that was for real, plus Hogan turning Heel later that Year, it was chosen to do Ratings. By 01 everyone had Internet and everybody knew that shit wasn't real, so it wasn't gonna have the same effect. Plus i like Booker and all, but he never was a huge draw and neither is DDP, they were Champions at WCW at a all time low. Plus Nash was fighting The Undertaker at Mania before he left and Hall was as Razor Ramon one of the most over Guys.

And why did WCW treat every Star that came from WWF like a Legend and WWF didnt? WWF didn't need to, they had their Stars, WCW was used to buy their Stars, you know something is wrong when Jarrett is your Champion. You write it all like it was all a big pile of shit, but why did then Series 01 have one of the higher Buyrates in Series History?

To me, you sound like a WCW Fan who wanted the WCW to go over and be Faces, cause you like them more, fact of the matter is, Vince would never let WCW Guys be the bigger Stars in his own Company, for better or worse, but you just sound biased and try to blame as much as possible on VKM.
 

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Ive seen this same thread like 3 times since ive joined in August.

SIMPLY: Vince burried all the WCW wrestlers. Plus, he had too many "side changes" with Austin, Regal and Kurt (who was on an amazing face run) turn heel and join the Alliance (yes Austin was already heel but he was turning face at the start of the storyline).
 

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I'm of the firm belief that the Invasion was not botched. Vince McMahon deliberately booked it this way as he had no intention of letting his wrestlers look bad or even on the same level as WCW or ECW.

Vince had fought WCW for 5 years, and he had very nearly been put out of business when he unleashed Attitude. I remember watching the final Nitro and watching Vince come out and refer how he was going to put the company on the shelf when he bought it. The fact he put Shane McMahon out there to act like he bought it told me all I needed to know.
 

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yeah Vince pretty much wanted to make WCW/ECW look ridiculous compared to WWE, and to make them seem like a legit threat, they needed help from WWF's arguably biggest star.

I wouldn't really say it was botched as it was still entertaining, however it could have been executed a lot better.
 

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Dude, dont write me a book.

And what, the booking was horrible, the Fans thought that, and booed the Wrestlers? That doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Secondly Booker was pushed greatly, and yes he was over, DDP was okay i guess, but i never saw him as a legit Main Eventer. And hell no they weren't more over then The Rock and Stone Cold, hell even the ECW Guy RVD was 10 times more over.It's just simple, it's the WWF, so why should they even play Faces when they were over? In the end WWF was gonna go over, you want the Faces to be that and who would want WCW to go over anyway?

I am no WCW expert, but that was WCW, and that is WWF, it's simple, but that's the way it is. There always was a very negativ vibe from WWE Fans when mentioned WCW, it was that hick promotion in Atlanta....And i don't really see them being better then the whole WCW Roster, besides the Fact that it's not true, the average WWE Fan doesn't look for Mic Skills, Wrestling Skills and rate the Wrestlers. Either you entertain them or not, it's that simple. So you gotta have a great Character or something else, but the average fan doesn't care for workrate.

1.You are right that it would have been dumb to say no tothat money and go towork for half of it, you might argue that you would have a advantage, but actually the guys coming in later were treated better. But i don't see why WWF should have bought them out of their Contracts, most WCW Main Eventers were overpayed and didn't really draw like they use to(Goldberg, Sting and Hogan taken out of that), and even with those i don't see how they could make that much money to even make even for the huge Contracts.

2.It was the right thing to stop Nitro, nobody cared for WCW anymore, the Ratings showed, so actually producing a Show that didn't do great Ratings anymore and adding the fact that the People knew the Company was out of Business, i think the Ratings would have shrinked even more.

3.I liked the Feud and i thought it went all like it should have, the Series ME was a blast and the perfect blow off.

The Outsiders thing worked, cause people thought that was for real, plus Hogan turning Heel later that Year, it was chosen to do Ratings. By 01 everyone had Internet and everybody knew that shit wasn't real, so it wasn't gonna have the same effect. Plus i like Booker and all, but he never was a huge draw and neither is DDP, they were Champions at WCW at a all time low. Plus Nash was fighting The Undertaker at Mania before he left and Hall was as Razor Ramon one of the most over Guys.

And why did WCW treat every Star that came from WWF like a Legend and WWF didnt? WWF didn't need to, they had their Stars, WCW was used to buy their Stars, you know something is wrong when Jarrett is your Champion. You write it all like it was all a big pile of shit, but why did then Series 01 have one of the higher Buyrates in Series History?

To me, you sound like a WCW Fan who wanted the WCW to go over and be Faces, cause you like them more, fact of the matter is, Vince would never let WCW Guys be the bigger Stars in his own Company, for better or worse, but you just sound biased and try to blame as much as possible on VKM.

Dude, now you wrote me a book.

Here's the debut of DDP. This pop is propably the biggest of the entire year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEY4DJs6II0

Yes, I was a WCW fan but always a bigger WWF fan. And no I did not want to see the WCW guys go over bacause like you said, that would have been stupid. I only wanted the WCW guys get booked as equals and beat WWF guys every now and then and then lose in the end at the Series.

Speaking of the Series, you said the Series 01 got one of the higher buyrates. That is correct. But given this storyline, WWF vs WCW, a feud that lsted for over 10 years (even longer if you count NWA as WCW), the buyrate for the Series should have been the highest in history by a longshot and at least be as big as the Invasion buyrate. This decline in buyrates alone proves how promising this angle was in the beginning and only went downhill from there.
 

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Stephanie McMahon was in charge of ECW. I mean, damn...you can't make many worse choices than that.
Plus, Sting was the face of WCW. He was the man in that company and who did we have instead? Booker fucking T. Whoop-dee-doo.
sting might of been the face of the company but he was out for ages before the last nitro. Booker T in my eyes was the best the wcw had to offer but wwe used him terribly in the first few years of his contract then turned him to a heel champion. in wcw he was the best face champion they had.

Anyways this was one of my fave eras in WWE, i kinda got pissed off at thoe whole idea of it been WWE vs WcW and ECW and wen WWE won stone cold got a "contract" so basicly he had nothing to lose in ther first place charcter wise i mean.
 
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