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Austin definitely started the boom on WWF's behalf and WWF's fightback against WCW. This is a historical fact. He also helped WWF draw level against WCW.

But WCW was his still alive and kicking in 1998, even when WWF was winning most of the ratings. When Goldberg won the belt WCW once again edged ahead, even if slightly.

Post Survivor Series 1998, once Rock started to become a mega star, the tide changed with his ascension to the top. And Rock vs Foley rivalry was outdrawing Austin's segments in early 1999 more often than not.

If Austin started the boom on WWF's behalf, Rock took it to another level higher. If Austin did help them draw level to WCW, then Rock's rise as mega star along with WCW's bad decisions, put them out of business for ever.

Nothing can change this fact as well.
Not trying to nitpick but WCW never edged ahead WWE after Goldberg won the title on Nitro. In fact, RAW won the next 4 ratings battles. WCW did win 3 battles in August, but this can be attributed to the aftermath of RAW being pre-empted by the US Open tennis on the USA network.

For 3 months before Austin took time off, Nitro only managed to defeat RAW twice IIRC, and that was on Sept 14 (the return of Ric Flair) and the Nitro where they showed the Halloween Havoc main event between Goldberg and DDP free of charge.

RAW started to run away with the ratings war in February 99, after the nWo Wolfpack began to.lose steam, combined with Austin's return, and The Rock battling Mankind.

From the beginning of April 98 to the Survivor Series 98 RAW had a head-to-head record of 18-11-2, after losing for 82 consecutive weeks (Nitro would win the first Monday of April, before RAW ended the streak at 83). After Goldberg won the WCW title, RAW would still go 10-6 head to head with Nitro until Austin left due to his neck injury.

*An interesting tidbit of history the nWo angle did not increase combined Viewersip for Monday night wrestling. Leading up to WM12 in early 1996, the combined ratings on Monday nights averaged just over6.0. The WCW simply stole the WWF audience for the first year of the nWo. It was not until around August 97 where wrestling started getting white hot, and drawing new viewers.

By Survivor Series 97, pro wrestling was averaging 7.0+ and by WM14 ratings started eclipsing 8.0. By January 99 it was not uncommon to see the combined wrestling audience surpass 10.0. This occurred until WCW ratings started plummeting in the spring of 99.

Wrestling had become so hot 馃敟 in late 98, that there was talk in the NFL about moving Monday Night Football to a different date, as Wrestling was stealing away viewers. If this trend had continued for a couple of years, it could have conceivably happened.
 

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Bringing Tyson in definitely helped the WWE, but RAW ratings started it's upward climb immediately following the Montreal Screwjob (probably due to the buzz about what had happened in the aftermath). Incidentally, ratings did not dramatically rise until the beginning of April, after WM14, with the start of the McMahon-Austin feud. This allowed WWE to dominate the remainder of the Monday Night War. WCW would only win 8 more head-to-head battles vs WWE (the last being the free airing of the Halloween Havoc 98 main event between Goldberg and DDP) for the last 3 years of WCW's existence. The McMahon-Austin feud is definitely the main reason the WWE moved back into the #1 position. The Rock vs Mankind helped keep the WWE momentum going after Austin was sidelined with a neck injury. Once Austin was battling the Rock in 1999, the ratings war was pretty much over.

For the life of me, I don't understand why the hardcore Rock fans try to minimize Austin's role in the Attitude Era (when both wrestlers contributed to WWE's high ratings), and make it look like Rock was the main reason for the WWE success, but we have been doing this song and dance for 10 years, and it's not going to stop anytime soon. Just to correct this poster, The Rock came along in 1996, and had little impact until the fall of 1998, when he developed his persona, when he always talked in the third person. It also should be noticed that being successful in Hollywood has little bearing on how popular a wrestler is in pro wrestling. People come to pro wrestling shows to be entertained by their wrestling characters, not because they want The Rock to play his character in The Scorpion King.
I don't disagree with much here but you're off base on outside stuff mattering. When a wrestler appears on shows like that 70's show, music videos, stars in movies it reflects their popularity. Vince McMahon has always used Hollywood to enhance his wrestlers and Hogan rode his Rocky 3 appearance for years. To deny that stuff doesn't matter is crazy.

Also should be noted no one here took anything away from Austin. You're referring to 1 poster RLStern who is not even in this thread at all. Not sure why you feel the need to bring it up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
Austin definitely started the boom on WWF's behalf and WWF's fightback against WCW. This is a historical fact. He also helped WWF draw level against WCW.

But WCW was his still alive and kicking in 1998, even when WWF was winning most of the ratings. When Goldberg won the belt WCW once again edged ahead, even if slightly.

Post Survivor Series 1998, once Rock started to become a mega star, the tide changed with his ascension to the top. And Rock vs Foley rivalry was outdrawing Austin's segments in early 1999 more often than not.

If Austin started the boom on WWF's behalf, Rock took it to another level higher. If Austin did help them draw level to WCW, then Rock's rise as mega star along with WCW's bad decisions, put them out of business for ever.

Nothing can change this fact as well.
Simply put, the both of them are the faces of the Attitude Era which is why they are 1a and 1b.
 

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Not trying to nitpick but WCW never edged ahead WWE after Goldberg won the title on Nitro. In fact, RAW won the next 4 ratings battles. WCW did win 3 battles in August, but this can be attributed to the aftermath of RAW being pre-empted by the US Open tennis on the USA network.

For 3 months before Austin took time off, Nitro only managed to defeat RAW twice IIRC, and that was on Sept 14 (the return of Ric Flair) and the Nitro where they showed the Halloween Havoc main event between Goldberg and DDP free of charge.

RAW started to run away with the ratings war in February 99, after the nWo Wolfpack began to.lose steam, combined with Austin's return, and The Rock battling Mankind.

From the beginning of April 98 to the Survivor Series 98 RAW had a head-to-head record of 18-11-2, after losing for 82 consecutive weeks (Nitro would win the first Monday of April, before RAW ended the streak at 83). After Goldberg won the WCW title, RAW would still go 10-6 head to head with Nitro until Austin left due to his neck injury.

*An interesting tidbit of history the nWo angle did not increase combined Viewersip for Monday night wrestling. Leading up to WM12 in early 1996, the combined ratings on Monday nights averaged just over6.0. The WCW simply stole the WWF audience for the first year of the nWo. It was not until around August 97 where wrestling started getting white hot, and drawing new viewers.

By Survivor Series 97, pro wrestling was averaging 7.0+ and by WM14 ratings started eclipsing 8.0. By January 99 it was not uncommon to see the combined wrestling audience surpass 10.0. This occurred until WCW ratings started plummeting in the spring of 99.

Wrestling had become so hot 馃敟 in late 98, that there was talk in the NFL about moving Monday Night Football to a different date, as Wrestling was stealing away viewers. If this trend had continued for a couple of years, it could have conceivably happened.
My point was WCW died only after Rock's rise as WWF's second mega star along with Austin. That and their bad decisions put them out for ever.
 

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I don't disagree with much here but you're off base on outside stuff mattering. When a wrestler appears on shows like that 70's show, music videos, stars in movies it reflects their popularity. Vince McMahon has always used Hollywood to enhance his wrestlers and Hogan rode his Rocky 3 appearance for years. To deny that stuff doesn't matter is crazy.

Also should be noted no one here took anything away from Austin. You're referring to 1 poster RLStern who is not even in this thread at all. Not sure why you feel the need to bring it up.
Another great post馃憤

These Austin fans are so obsessed with RLStern that they have to mention him in every Rock/Austin related thread. Even most Rock fans disagree with him when he says Rock surpassed Austin in late 98 itself.
 
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Rock wasn't FOTC in 2000? I must've watched another show. Guy was a fucking megaton rocket AAA money printing gate buster. Had to contend with the enormous HHH factor yet still came off the biggest part of the show by miles.
 

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I don't disagree with much here but you're off base on outside stuff mattering. When a wrestler appears on shows like that 70's show, music videos, stars in movies it reflects their popularity. Vince McMahon has always used Hollywood to enhance his wrestlers and Hogan rode his Rocky 3 appearance for years. To deny that stuff doesn't matter is crazy.

Also should be noted no one here took anything away from Austin. You're referring to 1 poster RLStern who is not even in this thread at all. Not sure why you feel the need to bring it up.

Again, you are deflecting. If Hollywood means so much to WWE, why was Jesse Ventura not offered a greater role in the company, in spite of being involved in a number of box office successes? And why was Hulk Hogan keeping his #1 spot, in spite of all his movies bombing?

A wrestlers success in Hollywood means literally nothing in the wrestling world. Just look at the Rock. He peaked in 1999-2000, and was booed for a time in 2002, in spite of achieving success in Hollywood.
 

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Austin created the wrestling boom and everyone benefited. Rock was able to become arguably a bigger star, but you can't blame Vince for wanting to keep Austin, the guy that started the boom, to stay on top for as long as possible.

Austin didn't create the wrestling boom period, the nWo did, however, he did keep the WWE alive when they needed him the most, and he played a major factor in winning the monday night wars.
 

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This is the last time I will mention this. Being a Hollywood celebrity has little impact on how popular a wrestler is to the wrestling world. If that were true, the Rock's segments would have done much higher after 2002, than his peak in 1999-2000. If your analogy is correct, than why did they not give Jesse Ventura a bigger role in the late 80s than color commentator, and make him bigger than Hulk Hogan, considering all Venturas Hollywood roles were box office successes, while Hogan's movies bombed?

Nobody will go to a WWE event solely to sit through the Rock recting all his lines in The Scorpion King.
...I'm still waiting for you to explain the success of WM 28, since Rock was 1/10 the star that he was in 1999-2000?...

...and Ventura was never the main star in a big budget type movie. That's like saying HHH is a big movie star because he played a part in Blade III.

Beside, the big difference between the Rock situation and the HOgans and the Venturas, is that Vince was getting a big chunk of money from Rock's earlier movies. Matter of fact the first 3 movies that were ever produced by WWE studios were all Rock movies. The first movie was The Scorpion King and it did 180 millions on the box office, we're talking a different ball game here. Non of Hogan's or Venturas movies that they starred in was doing this kinda of numbers, even if they were, Vince wasn't getting nearly the amount of money that he was getting from Rock's movies. You get the picture???

So pushing Rock would definitely benefit him financially.
 

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Again, you are deflecting. If Hollywood means so much to WWE, why was Jesse Ventura not offered a greater role in the company, in spite of being involved in a number of box office successes? And why was Hulk Hogan keeping his #1 spot, in spite of all his movies bombing?

A wrestlers success means literally nothing in the wrestling world. Just look at the Rock. He peaked in 1999-2000, and was booed for a time in 2002, in spite of achieving success in Hollywood.
The Predator aired in 1987. By that time Jesse Ventura had already retired once as a in ring performer and Vince never believed in his ability to come back from that. He was a significant presence on the show as an announcer though which you just dismiss. The talent are actual people and have issues outside of popularity that can prevent them from being used as well as Vince could dream up. Jesse Ventura served in Vietnam and had blood clots in his lungs due to being exposed to agent orange. So make him fotc?

With Hogan they did attempt to move on from him with Ultimate Warrior. But are you just making up that there was other lead actors with massive hits under their belt willing to replace Hogan? Who is that mystery actor/ wrestler?

As for Rock being booed. Lots of things factored in but it's mainly because a shift in audience. Rock was leaving/ as were his casual fans/ the booger eater fans were getting the industry back. When RVD is the most over person you know mainstream wrestling is dead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #98 ·
Rock wasn't FOTC in 2000? I must've watched another show. Guy was a fucking megaton rocket AAA money printing gate buster. Had to contend with the enormous HHH factor yet still came off the biggest part of the show by miles.
HHH thinking he could win against The Rock in 2000 makes me laugh!
 
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