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Anyone who was around during the AE knows the answer isn't so simple. The NWO vs Sting is what created the era and Vince and Austin did not built things from the ground up. Austin too benefitted from an industry on fire. Vince stole WCW's fire by bringing in Tyson and Austin v McMahon did record business. By the time Rock came along WWF took WCW to the cleaners and won easily the war. The reason Rock is seen as the bigger star is because he lapped Austin 10x over outside the biz which matters. WWE got insanely popular because it went mainstream and Rock was the bigger mainstream star between the 2 and that was the case all the way back to late 99. The reason Austin is seen as the bigger star is the AE did revolve around him and he does have the strongest metrics behind him. You can argue it all day. Personally I remember seeing a lot more NWO shirts than Austin and never really saw a Rock shirt. Kids imitated Rock like crazy but they weren't wearing his shirts. But that's just my locality.
 

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I will only say this once...

NOBODY CARES

In 2011-13, Rock was not 1/10 the star he was between 1999-2001. Want to know why? 85% of people who followed wrestling during the attitude era, left and never looked back. This mass exodus of wrestling fans began after WM18. Just look at the ratings in 2011-13, compared to 1999-2011. Instead of 10 million fans watching wrestling ever week, only 2.5 million (at most) were watching it 15 years later.

smh. Do you realize that the 3 WMs that Rock headlined when he came back are among the most successful WM events of all time(with WM 28 at the top)?? Saying that Rock wasn't the 1/10 star that he was is one of the dumbest things I've ever read in this forum.

Comparing today's rating to 20yrs ago is illogical. Back then you can only watch Raw/SD on TV, there was no internet to watch the show from, like there is today or even in 2012. That's why the company stopped giving a damn about the ratings in the late '00s.


Under your analogy, I guess wrestling should have featured Leonardo DiCaprio vs Jennifer Lopez, since they were arguably the hottest young actors in 2001. I will just say this once, since you can't comprehend the real world:

Wrestlers do not get over due to their success in Hollywood. If that were true, HHH would have beeen a mid-carder, and the WWE would ahve put the belt on Leonardo DiCaprio, Mark Wahlburg, and Johnny Depp.
Well, genius, there is a big difference between being an outsider celeb like a DiCaprio who don't know the difference between a head lock and a wrist lock, and an actual wrestler who happened to be a big movie star in hollywood. If prime Arnold or Hugh Jackman had any idea how to wrestle they would've probably main-evented WM at some. Have you ever heard of Laurence Taylor and Mr.T ??
 

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How popular a wrestler is outside wrestling has little bearing on how big of a star they are inside the industry.
Nonsense. Let me remind you what the 1st WrestleMania main event was. Hulk Hogan and Mr T vs Piper and Orndorf. Directly capitalizing off Hulk Hogan's Rocky 3 appearance and Hulk Hogan use to come out to Eye of the Tiger.
 

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smh. Do you realize that the 3 WMs that Rock headlined when he came back are among the most successful WM events of all time(with WM 28 at the top)?? Saying that Rock wasn't the 1/10 star that he was is one of the dumbest things I've ever read in this forum.
You are delusional if you think Thr Rock was as popular in 2013 as he was in 1999-2000. The actor Dwayne Johnson was huge, but that's not wrestling. That's Hollywood.

Comparing today's rating to 20yrs ago is illogical. Back then you can only watch Raw/SD on TV, there was no internet to watch the show from, like there is today or even in 2012. That's why the company stopped giving a damn about the ratings in the late '00s.
You honesty believe that? In yhe late 90s, wrestling was in huge boom. It was everywhere in the mainstream media. By 2002, the boom was over and pro wrestling had lost 2,/3 of its audience. Today, it is lucky if 20% of the viewers they had from the Attitude era still watch the WWE/AEW combined.

Nobody cares about wrestling in the mainstream media, with the exception of the Chris Benoit tragedy 15 years ago.
 

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OP answered his own question

The Rock was treated as the face of the company because he WAS the face of the company, if you are the
face of a company you will be treated as such.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Anyone who was around during the AE knows the answer isn't so simple. The NWO vs Sting is what created the era and Vince and Austin did not built things from the ground up. Austin too benefitted from an industry on fire. Vince stole WCW's fire by bringing in Tyson and Austin v McMahon did record business. By the time Rock came along WWF took WCW to the cleaners and won easily the war. The reason Rock is seen as the bigger star is because he lapped Austin 10x over outside the biz which matters. WWE got insanely popular because it went mainstream and Rock was the bigger mainstream star between the 2 and that was the case all the way back to late 99. The reason Austin is seen as the bigger star is the AE did revolve around him and he does have the strongest metrics behind him. You can argue it all day. Personally I remember seeing a lot more NWO shirts than Austin and never really saw a Rock shirt. Kids imitated Rock like crazy but they weren't wearing his shirts. But that's just my locality.
I agree that Rock didn't seem like a T-shirt type of guy. Although I believe his bull t-shirt are amongst the best selling of all time. I always associate Rock as a video games guy/action figures ect... But he was still mainstream and a crossover act
 

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You are delusional if you think Thr Rock was as popular in 2013 as he was in 1999-2000. The actor Dwayne Johnson was huge, but that's not wrestling. That's Hollywood.



"In 2011-13, Rock was not 1/10 the star he was between 1999-2001"

I should've stopped after this. smh.
 

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"In 2011-13, Rock was not 1/10 the star he was between 1999-2001"

I should've stopped after this. smh.
Again, if you think The Rock was more popular as wrestler in 2011-13 as opposed to 1999-2000, then I am not sure what to tell you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Again, if you think The Rock was more popular as wrestler in 2011-13 as opposed to 1999-2000, then you were either too young to appreciate the Attitude era, or you have no idea what you are talking about.
I think Rock from 1999 to 2000 was more in pop culture as well as the WWF whereas from 2011 to 2013 when media started to shift towards social media, he became globally famous whereas from 1999 to 2000 it was more in North America and India.
 

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I think Rock from 1999 to 2000 was more in pop culture as well as the WWF whereas from 2011 to 2013 when media started to shift towards social media, he became globally famous whereas from 1999 to 2000 it was more in North America and India.
Australia, China, UK, Russia and all over the world buddy way back during The Rock's era(1999-2002) itself🙂
 
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Again, if you think The Rock was more popular as wrestler in 2011-13 as opposed to 1999-2000, then you were either too young to appreciate the Attitude era, or you have no idea what you are talking about.
I've never said that, but you did say that in 2011-2013 he was 1/10 the star that he was in 1999-2000 which proves that you obviously don't know what you're talking about.
 

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I've never said that, but you did say that in 2011-2013 he was 1/10 the star that he was in 1999-2000 which proves that you obviously don't know what you're talking about.
IF pro wrestling loses 85% of their audience in 15 years (at least in the US), I think it's fair to say that the average wrestler from 2013 is only a fraction of how popular they would ahve been during 1999. It's basic math.
 

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IF pro wrestling loses 85% of their audience in 15 years (at least in the US), I think it's fair to say that the average wrestler from 2013 is only a fraction of how popular they would ahve been during 1999. It's basic math.

Since you wanna talk basic math, then explain this:



Do you realize there is a life outside of the wrestling bubble??

Yes, Rock was a mega star in 1999-2000, but in 2012 he became a global entertainment brand. From the wrestling industry, to the movie business, to all the other stuff he's doing on the side, the social media, the energy drink, the tequila, the xfl, the 7 buck productions, they guy went to different sphere in the early '10s. It's not an exaggeration to say that everyone know who The Rock is. He's so big to the point where a lot of people don't have a clue what he did in the wrestling business, that's how big he is.

I think it's fair to say that the average wrestler from 2013 is only a fraction of how popular they would ahve been during 1999./QUOTE]

Exactly, "the average wrestler", Rock is not an average wrestler, he's an iconic figure in the entertainment business, so this dumb formula doesn't apply here. The guy outgrew wrestling.

Plus, pro wrestling losing 85% of their audience, that's another lie.
 

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Anyone who was around during the AE knows the answer isn't so simple. The NWO vs Sting is what created the era and Vince and Austin did not built things from the ground up. Austin too benefitted from an industry on fire. Vince stole WCW's fire by bringing in Tyson and Austin v McMahon did record business. By the time Rock came along WWF took WCW to the cleaners and won easily the war. The reason Rock is seen as the bigger star is because he lapped Austin 10x over outside the biz which matters. WWE got insanely popular because it went mainstream and Rock was the bigger mainstream star between the 2 and that was the case all the way back to late 99. The reason Austin is seen as the bigger star is the AE did revolve around him and he does have the strongest metrics behind him. You can argue it all day. Personally I remember seeing a lot more NWO shirts than Austin and never really saw a Rock shirt. Kids imitated Rock like crazy but they weren't wearing his shirts. But that's just my locality.
Bringing Tyson in definitely helped the WWE, but RAW ratings started it's upward climb immediately following the Montreal Screwjob (probably due to the buzz about what had happened in the aftermath). Incidentally, ratings did not dramatically rise until the beginning of April, after WM14, with the start of the McMahon-Austin feud. This allowed WWE to dominate the remainder of the Monday Night War. WCW would only win 8 more head-to-head battles vs WWE (the last being the free airing of the Halloween Havoc 98 main event between Goldberg and DDP) for the last 3 years of WCW's existence. The McMahon-Austin feud is definitely the main reason the WWE moved back into the #1 position. The Rock vs Mankind helped keep the WWE momentum going after Austin was sidelined with a neck injury. Once Austin was battling the Rock in 1999, the ratings war was pretty much over.

For the life of me, I don't understand why the hardcore Rock fans try to minimize Austin's role in the Attitude Era (when both wrestlers contributed to WWE's high ratings), and make it look like Rock was the main reason for the WWE success, but we have been doing this song and dance for 10 years, and it's not going to stop anytime soon. Just to correct this poster, The Rock came along in 1996, and had little impact until the fall of 1998, when he developed his persona, when he always talked in the third person. It also should be noticed that being successful in Hollywood has little bearing on how popular a wrestler is in pro wrestling. People come to pro wrestling shows to be entertained by their wrestling characters, not because they want The Rock to play his character in The Scorpion King.
 

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Since you wanna talk basic math, then explain this:



Do you realize there is a life outside of the wrestling bubble??

Yes, Rock was a mega star in 1999-2000, but in 2012 he became a global entertainment brand. From the wrestling industry, to the movie business, to all the other stuff he's doing on the side, the social media, the energy drink, the tequila, the xfl, the 7 buck productions, they guy went to different sphere in the early '10s. It's not an exaggeration to say that everyone know who The Rock is. He's so big to the point where a lot of people don't have a clue what he did in the wrestling business, that's how big he is.
This is the last time I will mention this. Being a Hollywood celebrity has little impact on how popular a wrestler is to the wrestling world. If that were true, the Rock's segments would have done much higher after 2002, than his peak in 1999-2000. If your analogy is correct, than why did they not give Jesse Ventura a bigger role in the late 80s than color commentator, and make him bigger than Hulk Hogan, considering all Venturas Hollywood roles were box office successes, while Hogan's movies bombed?

Nobody will go to a WWE event solely to sit through the Rock recting all his lines in The Scorpion King.
 

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Austin created the wrestling boom and everyone benefited. Rock was able to become arguably a bigger star, but you can't blame Vince for wanting to keep Austin, the guy that started the boom, to stay on top for as long as possible.

It was inevitable Rock was going to take over, purely because of the age difference and Austin's injuries. You might as well squeeze as much out of Austin as possible and WWE did that. If Rock had stayed full time for another 2-3 years, he would have unquestionably been the GOAT.
 

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Austin created the wrestling boom and everyone benefited. Rock was able to become arguably a bigger star, but you can't blame Vince for wanting to keep Austin, the guy that started the boom, to stay on top for as long as possible.

It was inevitable Rock was going to take over, purely because of the age difference and Austin's injuries. You might as well squeeze as much out of Austin as possible and WWE did that. If Rock had stayed full time for another 2-3 years, he would have unquestionably been the GOAT.
I tend to agree. I started losing interest in wrestling after WM18, as The Rock was getting stale, and injuries were catching up to Austin that led to his retirement a year later.

I was pleasantly surprised by how awesome The Rock was in his conceited "Hollywood Rock" persona. Especially when he would trash the cities he was in while playing acoustic guitar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Austin created the wrestling boom and everyone benefited. Rock was able to become arguably a bigger star, but you can't blame Vince for wanting to keep Austin, the guy that started the boom, to stay on top for as long as possible.

It was inevitable Rock was going to take over, purely because of the age difference and Austin's injuries. You might as well squeeze as much out of Austin as possible and WWE did that. If Rock had stayed full time for another 2-3 years, he would have unquestionably been the GOAT.
Yeah but Vince realized too late because Rock had one foot out of the door. I agree that by 2002 at least Vince was setting up Rock to be the face for as long as possible. Rock is already one of the GOATS though.
 

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Austin definitely started the boom on WWF's behalf and WWF's fightback against WCW. This is a historical fact. He also helped WWF draw level against WCW.

But WCW was his still alive and kicking in 1998, even when WWF was winning most of the ratings. When Goldberg won the belt WCW once again edged ahead, even if slightly.

Post Survivor Series 1998, once Rock started to become a mega star, the tide changed with his ascension to the top. And Rock vs Foley rivalry was outdrawing Austin's segments in early 1999 more often than not.

If Austin started the boom on WWF's behalf, Rock took it to another level higher. If Austin did help them draw level to WCW, then Rock's rise as mega star along with WCW's bad decisions, put them out of business for ever.

Nothing can change this fact as well.
 
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