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Discussion Starter #1
I’ve seen quite a few people talk negatively about wrestlers, such as HHH, for putting themselves over and trying to make sure they always win matches, etc. Why is it bad of them to do that?

I understand that them doing this isn’t the best thing for the show, but from a personal standpoint, it makes sense for them to do it, so why do they get hate? In any job, you want to get promotions, pay rises, and the like. When there’s a chance for promotion, you’d still go for it, despite knowing someone else may be better suited. You’d also do what you could to protect your position at work and not let someone else be given it. Even if the wrestlers know another wrestler would be better in a storyline, that’s not much different to when you’re in a job interview, for example, but still try to get the job or promotion over someone you know is way more qualified and would be best for the company. Why is it deemed ok for people to do that in regular jobs, but not wrestling? (I don’t mean in regard to how some people allegedly went about it, through bullying tactics. That’s a dick move on their part. I just mean generally trying to protect their position)

(this isn’t an argumentative you-should-stop-thinking-like-this type post, it’s meant as a genuine question)
 

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rasslin
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I think wrestling needs more of guys wanting to win all their matches. Being a nice guy and exchanging wins and losses makes no one a star.

The reason why Cena was so polarizing is because if you liked him you were excited to see him win and if you hated him you'd be excited to see him lose because he rarely did.
 

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What's interesting is that there's a connection between ruthless ambition, backstage politics and sheer determination that makes for a hyper-competitive environment.

Politicking and ambition makes for legitimate rivalries backstage and in-ring, and that can really impact the intensity of a promo. Hell, it can even make a talent take risks and liberties in a promo just to get an advantage over the roster. This is the kind of ballsy shit that got a ton of talent over in the late 90's.
 

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People here need to realize this is their (wrestlers) job. Just like you want to get ahead at work, get pay raise, promotion, etc, they want exact same thing.
Say what you want about someone like HHH, but I've said it many times before, that is exactly why I like HHH. Guy is doing whatever he needs to get ahead. Guys like Kane, Big Show, and few others could learn from that. All those guys had talent but were "too nice" and let others walk over them. Imagine where Show and Kane would be if they had HHH attitude. Not jobbing to nobodies on random episodes of Raw and SmackDown, that's for sure.

This is not charity, you do what you have to do to get ahead, simple as that.
 

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I’ve seen quite a few people talk negatively about wrestlers, such as HHH, for putting themselves over and trying to make sure they always win matches, etc. Why is it bad of them to do that?

Because it's sabotaging more talented wrestlers momentum and take away their chance to reach the top and make more money...and when you're married to the boss's daughter and you're part of the creative team and make suggestions and give opinions for the sake of stopping other people's push so you can secure you're spot, that's a huge problem.

Wrestling is a tough sport mentally and physically. These guys are busting their ass on a daily basis, away from their families to make a good living. The last thing they wanna deal with is bs like this.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Because it's sabotaging more talented wrestlers momentum and take away their chance to reach the top and make more money...and when you're married to the boss's daughter and you're part of the creative team and make suggestions and give opinions for the sake of stopping other people's push so you can secure you're spot, that's a huge problem.

Wrestling is a tough sport mentally and physically. These guys are busting their ass on a daily basis, away from their families to make a good living. The last thing they wanna deal with is bs like this.
Someone other than HHH (or him if he wasn’t married to a McMahon) would still just be doing what everyone else in their job does. It being a tough job doesn’t mean anyone should go easy just to let others have a chance at the top. Being an Olympic athlete is a seriously tough gig but nobody calls on the gold medal winners to tone it down so others can have a chance. The wrestlers at the top are busting their butts off, away from their families, too, just like the ones not so high up (as with my original post, I’m referring to the ones who try to protect their spot without resorting to jerkish actions such as bullying, etc). They shouldn’t be demonised for trying to keep what they’ve managed to achieve
 

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Someone other than HHH (or him if he wasn’t married to a McMahon) would still just be doing what everyone else in their job does. It being a tough job doesn’t mean anyone should go easy just to let others have a chance at the top. Being an Olympic athlete is a seriously tough gig but nobody calls on the gold medal winners to tone it down so others can have a chance. The wrestlers at the top are busting their butts off, away from their families, too, just like the ones not so high up (as with my original post, I’m referring to the ones who try to protect their spot without resorting to jerkish actions such as bullying, etc). They shouldn’t be demonised for trying to keep what they’ve managed to achieve
Bad analogy.

I'm not saying he should half ass it in the ring(or on the mic), what I'm saying is playing the political game instead of relying on your talent and ability to get ahead is some sucker shit...and it wouldn't even bother me as much if he wasn't going outta of his way just to cut other people's throat. Going on national TV and saying that Jericho isn't a top teir talent just a day before your WM main-event match with him is one of the weakest moves I've ever seen, Jericho went straight to mid card right after, they didn't even book him for backlash, that's how bad it was. There was absolutely no reason for HHH to say that.
 

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The Rock proved that you can lose plenty of matches, put over others, be respected backstage, and have the people paying primarily to see you without having to stab his fellow workers to get anything.

Talent should trump all. Just imagine being the absolute best _ and having to play second fiddle because someone else used backbiting and sabotage to get that top spot(or happened to be the bosses son in law)

As a manager I always pick the person who does the best job for promotions. Not someone who kisses my ass or talks down the other employees. If anything, that will only make me think less of you. If you want the promotion, show me how you've earned it.
 

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Hardcore Casual
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I’ve seen quite a few people talk negatively about wrestlers, such as HHH, for putting themselves over and trying to make sure they always win matches, etc. Why is it bad of them to do that?
I think it's because whether real or imagined, a lot of people find it to be a stranglehold on the product. People like Hogan, Triple H, Kevin Nash, Bret Hart, 90s Shawn Michaels etc. are perceived as overly protective of their spot to the detriment of the overall product.

It's what people mean by "stop being a mark for yourself." The wrestling business is hard enough when writing intertwining kayfabe storylines, let alone dealing with backstage drama between two wrestlers who don't want to put each other over.

The alternative is this dystopian wrestling universe of "get your shit in." When you have all these wrestlers always looking to put themselves over, the art of selling, telling and story and putting someone ELSE over is almost completely lost (e.g. heels constantly getting pops from exciting high spots). And things like protecting a wrestler or finisher also don't exist anymore because it's just become a shitshow of meaningless matches featuring spammed finishers and acrobatics in a vain attempt to get oneself over.
 

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Your average colleague dates and marries the bosses daughter and becomes a member of board taking decisions about you is the reason except that the fans puts themselves in place of their fave wrestler here.
 

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If you're in the right position in the card you should be going 50-50 because you're about equal with the opponent. Only someone at the very bottom or at the very top should not be going 50-50. And it's unrealistic with so many cheating ways to win to go undefeated all the time.
 
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