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What makes it worse was a month earlier at Survivor Series, Austin's team lost, meaning Bischoff would become the full gm. Then he comes back as the sheriff and it was basically the same shit he was doing when he was co-gm lol.
Some people believed that Austin was actually training to make full time comeback as a wrestler. Of course that was proven false and he came back wearing a toy badge and calling himself the sheriff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Ruthless Aggression started in June 2002, when Austin had already bailed from the company. He came back for two matches- one was more an angle, his return against Eric Bischoff at No Way Out 2003, then his retirement match vs. The Rock. He then spent a year as an authority figure before leaving completely, only coming back for little cameo spots.

One real match in an era makes him a RA wrestler by the slimmest of technicalities. I'd give you that he was an occasional character in Ruthless Aggression.
FALSE, Ruthless Aggression started here


Eras are formed before they are given a name
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
As others have said, Vince's official Ruthless aggression speech happened when Austin had walked out. In fact, it was probably a reaction to Austin leaving as it officially signified the end of the Attitude era, with it's top star leaving and the search for something new.
eras form before a name is given to them, Attitude in 97 before the new logo in November, RA era started the first Raw with the new stage and theme song, even Lesnar came out the day after Wrestlemania.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Some people believed that Austin was actually training to make full time comeback as a wrestler. Of course that was proven false and he came back wearing a toy badge and calling himself the sheriff.
he actually did attempt a comeback in 2005 when they did a 3 week build for Taboo Tuesday vs Coach, he also was penciled in to face Vince at WM 20
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
These were more of transnational periods in the company history.
kind of but not really, by Fall 97, DX was there, Austin was stunning Vince, Raw is Raw is War, Red ropes, Titantron, TV 14, and in November the slow introduction of the fat scratch logo, most all the stuff the you think of when you think of Attitude era was there by the Fall, hell even Hell in the Cell debuted that October.

As for RA, you had WWF still being the WWF name even with a new Raw stage and music/brand split, you saw Lesnar on the upcome,and later on as the months went by became the face of the company for that time. People like to say June/July when Vince did his promo, but the era was already happening before he even said it. Infact the name RA wasn't even the real name for the era up until 11 years ago. The RA branding was just used on toys in the 2000s.
 

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1997 was for sure the most rugged year.

Stuff like the early incarnation of the Nation with Faarooq's raging racial promos, Pillman's XXX Files and Lawler calling Goldust a flaming F*g on live TV was straight out of HBO's Oz. Most of what they did in 97 was more mature and experimental than anything that came after. Canada VS America storyline had weekly promos that made you think "holy shit, did they really go there?". Hell, they even started doing stuff like this in 96. Pillman's gotta gun w/ home invasion. Mankind and Goldust being portrayed as psychologically complex/twisted characters straight out of Silence of the Lambs. Austin threatening to kill a caller on LiveWire. List goes on....

As of 1998, shit starting feeling way more theatrical. The comedy and crash TV elements were raised and you got borderline nudity, but it was all more juvenile and extraordinary in presentation, unlike 1997 which aimed for realism.

It feels crazy to write off 1997 as pre-AE. Maybe just in branding. The transiton to me took place in 1996, but by 1997 they were off to the races with weekly serial storytelling and breaking all sorts of wrestling taboos. Sure, they still had cartoony characters in the lower card, but so did 1998. (Beaver Cleavage? Tiger Ali Singh ?)
The middle to second half of 1997 might be my favorite part of the AE. It was definitely part of it. Sure, you still had some cartoonish gimmicks but you had the oddities, Brood (Vampires), BWO, and Too Cool a few years later too.

1997 had:

The true beginning of the Mr. McMahon character on WWF tv.

The Original DX

Stone Cold’s rise to the main event.

The beginnings of Undertaker-Kane

HIAC I

Bret Hart being a heel in the US but mostly a face everywhere else

Montreal Screwjob
Couldn't have summed it up better myself. 1997 just had this sense of realism just hasn't been explored ever since in the WWF. 1998/1999 might have been a bit more action-packed overall, but as you guys said it definitely felt much more contrived than what was going on in late-1996/1997.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Couldn't have summed it up better myself. 1997 just had this sense of realism just hasn't been explored ever since in the WWF. 1998/1999 might have been a bit more action-packed overall, but as you guys said it definitely felt much more contrived than what was going on in late-1996/1997.
97 had this wild west obscure feel, like anything could happen
 

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97 had this wild west obscure feel, like anything could happen
Absolutely.

If 1998/99 was sort of like Dragonball Z, where you had one clearly defined hero in Goku (Austin) who was always going to win & overcome stacked odds against super-villians; then 1997 is Dragon Ball, where you have a pool of different characters which all have their own motives & anyone could beat their opponent on any given day.

1997 just had such an unpredictable environment. The title "Raw is War" really suited the wrestling product from that year.
 

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FALSE, Ruthless Aggression started here


Eras are formed before they are given a name
Dude, the video literally starts with the word "Attitude".

But I guess we should take the word of a random guy's YouTube video title over the owner of the company coming out and making a speech containing the phrase and mission statement of the new era.
 

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Dude, the video literally starts with the word "Attitude".

But I guess we should take the word of a random guy's YouTube video title over the owner of the company coming out and making a speech containing the phrase and mission statement of the new era.
It will always be debated among people it's just like the AE where the seeds were planted in 1997 and took root by 1998 in full form.
 

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97 had this wild west obscure feel, like anything could happen

It was definitely the year of change and a drugged out HBK was pretty much at his peak and often out of control behind the scenes and during promos. The Nation of Domination was also an Attitude Era creation and pushed boundaries that WWE would never try nowadays with the company being public.

97 and 98 were definitely my favorite years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 · (Edited)
Dude, the video literally starts with the word "Attitude".

But I guess we should take the word of a random guy's YouTube video title over the owner of the company coming out and making a speech containing the phrase and mission statement of the new era.
in 2003,2004,2005 ATTITUDE was in the intro as well ? your point ?


so since Attitude moniker is in the 02-05 I suppose according to your flawed logic that era is also the Attitude era ?


Era's don't just happen by naming them, they occur organically and are then given a name.
 

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kind of but not really, by Fall 97, DX was there, Austin was stunning Vince, Raw is Raw is War, Red ropes, Titantron, TV 14, and in November the slow introduction of the fat scratch logo, most all the stuff the you think of when you think of Attitude era was there by the Fall, hell even Hell in the Cell debuted that October.

As for RA, you had WWF still being the WWF name even with a new Raw stage and music/brand split, you saw Lesnar on the upcome,and later on as the months went by became the face of the company for that time. People like to say June/July when Vince did his promo, but the era was already happening before he even said it. Infact the name RA wasn't even the real name for the era up until 11 years ago. The RA branding was just used on toys in the 2000s.
You still had The Patriot,The Godwins,Midget Wrestling and Flash Funk. Also HBK was still a lame babyface for most of the year. As was The Rock.
 

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in 2003,2004,2005 ATTITUDE was in the intro as well ? your point ?


so since Attitude moniker is in the 02-05 I suppose according to your flawed logic that era is also the Attitude era ?


Era's don't just happen by naming them, they occur organically and are then given a name.
My bad on that one, I did think they took out the "Attitude" off the end of the intro through that period.

I definitely see your point about eras happening organically, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on what started it though. Stages and show theme songs have frequently changed within the same era, so I don't feel that's the best indicator. But each to their own.
 

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Austin'd body gave out on him after the 2001 Survivor Series, doctors told him he needed to retire, the only good matches he had after that night were with Ric Flair and Kurt Angle.
 
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