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HBK was a champion in a transitional period in WWF 97. You still had the Godwins and The Patriot which were kid like gimmicks.
That's right, and I suppose whether or not 1997 is part of the attitude era is a separate argument. Whilst there was still a decent chunk of New Gen still floating around by that time, on the other hand you had things like DX, Goldust, Stone Cold, HIAC, Kane, the NOD, Raw is War, the updated WWF logo & heel-boss Vince during that year.

Me personally, I think it's the most rugged year from the AE bar none, but I can understand why others mightn't consider it to be 100% attitude, just yet.
 

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He was there, wrestling for a short time before transitioning into a non-wrestling role. I think people act like as if he "wasn't there" because it was clear that Austin's time in the spotlight had passed by the time HHH returned from injury in January 2002 and the NWO came in, with the major match between Rock and Hogan booked for Mania.

I'm actually with Austin on many of the points he raised at the time about where his character was going. I mean, he goes from headlining a blockbuster main event at Mania 17 with The Rock in Texas........to a mid-card match with Scott Hall less than a year later. WTF...?
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
These were not main events his stock was falling in the company. Austin had main evented one PPV in 2002 which was a loss to Jericho at No Way Out.
But that has nothing to do with what I am saying lol Someone can be a mid card and be part of an era lol Just because you don't like Austin's position on the card..does not mean he was not co exisiting in the RA era lol
 

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But that has nothing to do with what I am saying lol Someone can be a mid card and be part of an era lol Just because you don't like Austin's position on the card..does not mean he was not co exisiting in the RA era lol
People know that he existed he just didn't do anything memorable in that era that is worth talking about other than the 3rd Rock wrestlemania match.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
People know that he existed he just didn't do anything memorable in that era that is worth talking about other than the 3rd Rock wrestlemania match.
The GM stuff, the Survivor Series 03 build was pretty memorable and the focal
point of the entire broadcast. Was it a step down from what he did before ? Yes, but
most people remember that GM gig he did. I get what you mean tho.
 

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Because WWE revisionist history leaves that out and as seen in my Vince thread, a lot of grown ass adults who witnessed the era still sip on WWE’s kool-aid and
Are deluded into thinking that it’s true despite witnessing the fact first hand.
 

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Sherrif Austin 2003-2004 cant even possibly count that shit was the shits
What makes it worse was a month earlier at Survivor Series, Austin's team lost, meaning Bischoff would become the full gm. Then he comes back as the sheriff and it was basically the same shit he was doing when he was co-gm lol.
 

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He was part of the early RA period more essentially but spent a bulk of this time as a non active performer regardless of how entertaining he truly was as Co GM and Sheriff of Raw he was the old guard stepping back for those stepping up that's why Cena, Batista, Lesnar, Orton, HHH, Angle, Edge, Eddie, Benoit etc are more prominently remembered for this era as the focus while HBK and Taker were the backbone from the old guard themselves as full time performers.

Even Rock should be considered in the same vein as Austin here for being a part time Superstar within the same timeframe.
 

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true, that made no sense at all
that shit was awful and tbh a huge waste of austin. If they knew he was on borrowed time they shoulda booked a nice farewell tour run for him from Jan 2002- April 2003 coulda looked like

Royal Rumble 2002: Austin enters the Rumble, eliminates Kurt Angle, Angle re enters to cost Austin the match.

No Way Out 2002: Austin and Rock vs nWo happens here, Angle costs Austin the match after weeks of on and off feuding.

WrestleMania 18: Billed as a Triple Main Event (Y2J/HHH, Rock/Hogan, Austin/Angle) goes over Angle.

Raw after WM: Vince puts a "bounty" on Austin's head whoever takes him out gets an automatic shot at Unidisputed title. Big Show takes up on the offer.

Backlash 2002: Steve Austin vs Big Show runs to a no contest after all the smoke and mirror brawling bs.

Judgement Day 2002: Steve Austin defeats Big Show in a Last Man Standing Match, earns shit at Undisputed Title.

King of the Ring 2002: Austin wins a Fatal Four Way Match for the Undisputed title featuring The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, & .

Vengance 2002: Steve Austin retains over The Undertaker and Kurt Angle in a Triple Threat to help protect Austin.

Sumnerslam 2002: Brock Lesnar defeats Steve Austin for the Undisputed title and joins SD! making the belt SD exclusive. Takes time off

Raw October 2002: Hulk Hogan challenges Steve Austin to a match at SS02 at MSG. Austin returns and agrees.

Survivor Series 2002: Steve Austin def. Hulk Hogan

Armageddon 2002: Steve Austin def. Chris Jericho

Royal Rumble 2003: Triple H def. Steve Austin after interference from The Rock, Rock cuts promo wanting to get a win over Austin at WM willing to put both careers on the line Austin agrees.

No Way Out 2003: Steve Austin and Jim Ross def Hollywood Rock and Eric Bischoff. Bischoff backs Rock on his mission to retire the Rattlesnake who also has been a thorn to the side of the GM with Eric taking out his aggression on Jim Ross leading to this match.

WrestleMania 19: The Rock defeats Steve Austin in a Career vs Career match.
 

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Me personally, I think it's the most rugged year from the AE bar none, but I can understand why others mightn't consider it to be 100% attitude, just yet.
1997 was for sure the most rugged year.

Stuff like the early incarnation of the Nation with Faarooq's raging racial promos, Pillman's XXX Files and Lawler calling Goldust a flaming F*g on live TV was straight out of HBO's Oz. Most of what they did in 97 was more mature and experimental than anything that came after. Canada VS America storyline had weekly promos that made you think "holy shit, did they really go there?". Hell, they even started doing stuff like this in 96. Pillman's gotta gun w/ home invasion. Mankind and Goldust being portrayed as psychologically complex/twisted characters straight out of Silence of the Lambs. Austin threatening to kill a caller on LiveWire. List goes on....

As of 1998, shit starting feeling way more theatrical. The comedy and crash TV elements were raised and you got borderline nudity, but it was all more juvenile and extraordinary in presentation, unlike 1997 which aimed for realism.

It feels crazy to write off 1997 as pre-AE. Maybe just in branding. The transiton to me took place in 1996, but by 1997 they were off to the races with weekly serial storytelling and breaking all sorts of wrestling taboos. Sure, they still had cartoony characters in the lower card, but so did 1998. (Beaver Cleavage? Tiger Ali Singh ?)
 

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His run ended at WM19 its like saying HBK was in the AE like he was but he was not a focal point of the product at all
Not a great comparison IMO. HBK was one of the top guys of the early portion of the Attitude Era. Hell, he was practically the top guy from late 1997 to WM14. That may only cover about 5-6 months but the AE wasn’t that long of a period and HBK was a crucial part of its creation.

Austin, on the other hand, was a shell of his former popularity in 2002-2003 outside of his final feud with The Rock. He never was a central part of the RA era.
 

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That's right, and I suppose whether or not 1997 is part of the attitude era is a separate argument. Whilst there was still a decent chunk of New Gen still floating around by that time, on the other hand you had things like DX, Goldust, Stone Cold, HIAC, Kane, the NOD, Raw is War, the updated WWF logo & heel-boss Vince during that year.

Me personally, I think it's the most rugged year from the AE bar none, but I can understand why others mightn't consider it to be 100% attitude, just yet.
The middle to second half of 1997 might be my favorite part of the AE. It was definitely part of it. Sure, you still had some cartoonish gimmicks but you had the oddities, Brood (Vampires), BWO, and Too Cool a few years later too.

1997 had:

The true beginning of the Mr. McMahon character on WWF tv.

The Original DX

Stone Cold’s rise to the main event.

The beginnings of Undertaker-Kane

HIAC I

Bret Hart being a heel in the US but mostly a face everywhere else

Montreal Screwjob
 
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Ruthless Aggression started in June 2002, when Austin had already bailed from the company. He came back for two matches- one was more an angle, his return against Eric Bischoff at No Way Out 2003, then his retirement match vs. The Rock. He then spent a year as an authority figure before leaving completely, only coming back for little cameo spots.

One real match in an era makes him a RA wrestler by the slimmest of technicalities. I'd give you that he was an occasional character in Ruthless Aggression.
 

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As others have said, Vince's official Ruthless aggression speech happened when Austin had walked out. In fact, it was probably a reaction to Austin leaving as it officially signified the end of the Attitude era, with it's top star leaving and the search for something new.
 

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cause he played a very small part.

As a wrestler he had like 4-5 month run, and it wasn't even that great compared to the stuff that he did pre 2002.

As a co GM, well, I did enjoy watching some of the stuff he did, but let's face it, he wasn't playing that big of a role.

So it's totally understandable.
 
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