Why do casual fans and IWC fans opinions often differ so vastly?
I was watching OTL last night with a couple of friends, both of whom are casual fans.. They watch every show, they've even been to see live shows - but they never check the online news, they don't know anything about backstage info, wrestling lingo etc. Basically, they're not "smart to the business" as they say
Anyway, to my friends the Fatal 4 Way match was a much bigger match than Bryan-Punk, which made me think - why do peoples opinions between the IWC and casual fans differ so greatly? They found Bryan-Punk to be decent, but to them it was nothing more than a mid-level match, wheras the building feud between Orton and Sheamus is a much bigger deal to them.
Then I came online and I was shocked to find most people on here saying Bryan-Punk was match of the year, after where I had watched it gave it an average reception, mostly indifferent.
And please, this isn't a thread to debate whether the Punk-Bryan match was overrated or not, simply give reasons as to why you think casual fans and IWC fans differ so much
Anyway, to my friends the Fatal 4 Way match was a much bigger match than Bryan-Punk, which made me think - why do peoples opinions between the IWC and casual fans differ so greatly? They found Bryan-Punk to be decent, but to them it was nothing more than a mid-level match, wheras the building feud between Orton and Sheamus is a much bigger deal to them.
Then I came online and I was shocked to find most people on here saying Bryan-Punk was match of the year, after where I had watched it gave it an average reception, mostly indifferent.
And please, this isn't a thread to debate whether the Punk-Bryan match was overrated or not, simply give reasons as to why you think casual fans and IWC fans differ so much
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Re: Why does the casual fan and the IWC fans opinions often differ so vastly?
The fatal fourway had better build.
The fatal fourway had better build.
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Re: Why does the casual fan and the IWC fans opinions often differ so vastly?
The IWC spend a lot of time looking at the various different aspects of pro-wrestling. Looking into the history of the sport/business and looking into the history of each wrestler, the storylines they'd been in etc. So we form our opinions differently to how the television viewer forms their opinion. They form theirs via watching the TV and simply liking the guys who entertain them, they don't care where the storylines are going, they're just happy to sit and watch along as they take us on the ride.
As a member of the IWC I can safely say we're pretty much incapable of that, we have to continually try to second guess where they are going with storylines and it causes us to spoil the surprises which are being booked for us. We read spoilers such as match results or who's returning, so that when they finally do return, it doesn't mean as much.
The IWC spend a lot of time looking at the various different aspects of pro-wrestling. Looking into the history of the sport/business and looking into the history of each wrestler, the storylines they'd been in etc. So we form our opinions differently to how the television viewer forms their opinion. They form theirs via watching the TV and simply liking the guys who entertain them, they don't care where the storylines are going, they're just happy to sit and watch along as they take us on the ride.
As a member of the IWC I can safely say we're pretty much incapable of that, we have to continually try to second guess where they are going with storylines and it causes us to spoil the surprises which are being booked for us. We read spoilers such as match results or who's returning, so that when they finally do return, it doesn't mean as much.
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Re: Why does the casual fan and the IWC fans opinions often differ so vastly?
Well Bryan and Punk was after all just a match. This week's smackdown kane attack is as personal as their feud has gotten so far. Where as in the Fatal Four way you have a lot more going on
Well Bryan and Punk was after all just a match. This week's smackdown kane attack is as personal as their feud has gotten so far. Where as in the Fatal Four way you have a lot more going on
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Wrestling casual fans=Casual music listeners
IWC=Elitist music listeners
I personally find joy in everything whether it fits into the elitist or casual category. I will say that the IWC critiques based on quality while the casual fans critique based on what makes them happy.
IWC=Elitist music listeners
I personally find joy in everything whether it fits into the elitist or casual category. I will say that the IWC critiques based on quality while the casual fans critique based on what makes them happy.
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Re: Why does the casual fan and the IWC fans opinions often differ so vastly?
Well Lesnar's return was rumored for around Wrestlemania time. It didn't stop me from marking out when his music hit.
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Two things stick out:
-As a general rule, presentation is probably the most important thing with casuals in terms of determining who they become fans whereas the IWC perfers to determine who they become fans of by examining a wrestler's overall attributes like a science. The IWC only cares about presentation in regards to seeing the guys they already decided to mark for getting to look good. Casuals respond to talent but they are wary of seriously investing in someone until assured that the company will repay such investment.
-Casuals in my view are actually much more receptive of "IWC favorites" if presented well than the IWC is of "standard" main eventers and are generally more varied in who they can cheer for. Most idiots who drone on about "larger than life" characters act as if its impossible for a casual to be fans of guys like Rock or Lesnar AND CM Punk or Daniel Bryan at the same time. Conversely, most posters on the Internet all too often rely on generalized stereotypes; I still see stupid shit about Cena being a bad wrestler or Daniel Bryan having no personality.
-As a general rule, presentation is probably the most important thing with casuals in terms of determining who they become fans whereas the IWC perfers to determine who they become fans of by examining a wrestler's overall attributes like a science. The IWC only cares about presentation in regards to seeing the guys they already decided to mark for getting to look good. Casuals respond to talent but they are wary of seriously investing in someone until assured that the company will repay such investment.
-Casuals in my view are actually much more receptive of "IWC favorites" if presented well than the IWC is of "standard" main eventers and are generally more varied in who they can cheer for. Most idiots who drone on about "larger than life" characters act as if its impossible for a casual to be fans of guys like Rock or Lesnar AND CM Punk or Daniel Bryan at the same time. Conversely, most posters on the Internet all too often rely on generalized stereotypes; I still see stupid shit about Cena being a bad wrestler or Daniel Bryan having no personality.
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"IWC fans" look at things in wrestling WAY more in depth therefore are going to have different views than "casuals". Alot of the "IWC" (hate that term) fans put WAY more emphasis and importance on certain things (title credibility, "beleivability", etc) than "casuals" do. For example, OTL a large portion of the "IWC" fans you refer to are upset that the WWE title and WHC take a backseat to a non-title Cena feud. Casual fans don't really care and just watch the show.
As for this particular PPV the reason they though the WHC felt bigger is b/c the match had some actual build for a couple weeks. The WWE title match had one night of actual build on the SD prior to the PPV.
As for this particular PPV the reason they though the WHC felt bigger is b/c the match had some actual build for a couple weeks. The WWE title match had one night of actual build on the SD prior to the PPV.
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Want to know the reason? The reason is because if Punk and Bryan are not going over, the ICW bitches. Infact, the ICW bitches about nearlly everything.
Casual fans just apperactate all the matches and things WWE does as they understand WWE is trying were as the ICW always bitches if everything is not how they want it.
ICW always needs to have it there own way.
Casual fans just apperactate all the matches and things WWE does as they understand WWE is trying were as the ICW always bitches if everything is not how they want it.
ICW always needs to have it there own way.
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I might go a little deep here. I try to explain the best that I. It might be hard, because english is not my native language, but I will give it a shot.
Could it be that you need to have a certain type of personality to like wrestling as much as we do. Maybe we all have certain amount of same personality traits and because of that we often like the same wrestlers and we look the product the same way.
For example, IWC is often accused of only liking heel wrestlers. I do like them too, but its no different than when I watch a movie or tv-series. I find so called good guy very boring, and I have a feeling a lot of IWC feels the same way.
But the biggest thing is (what I believe), we humans whether we like it or not, biologically try to fit in a group and we try to learn from one another. Its a part of survival instincts. When you first register in this forum, you will probably read a while before posting and you read what someone of us think about a certain wrestler. Then later you watch WWE and you watch that wrestler from a different view. Now there are some people who hate someone, because most like them, but most of humans try to fit in a group. Later comes a point when your own views are so strong that you try to defend them as much as you can which make arguments, but at first you just try to blend in a group.
Casual fans on the other hand dont communicate about wrestling so much, that is why their opinions stay "original" and different from ours.
Could it be that you need to have a certain type of personality to like wrestling as much as we do. Maybe we all have certain amount of same personality traits and because of that we often like the same wrestlers and we look the product the same way.
For example, IWC is often accused of only liking heel wrestlers. I do like them too, but its no different than when I watch a movie or tv-series. I find so called good guy very boring, and I have a feeling a lot of IWC feels the same way.
But the biggest thing is (what I believe), we humans whether we like it or not, biologically try to fit in a group and we try to learn from one another. Its a part of survival instincts. When you first register in this forum, you will probably read a while before posting and you read what someone of us think about a certain wrestler. Then later you watch WWE and you watch that wrestler from a different view. Now there are some people who hate someone, because most like them, but most of humans try to fit in a group. Later comes a point when your own views are so strong that you try to defend them as much as you can which make arguments, but at first you just try to blend in a group.
Casual fans on the other hand dont communicate about wrestling so much, that is why their opinions stay "original" and different from ours.
I don't think everyone discussing wrestling online needs to be a part of the IWC as in rooting for the indy guys and hating on the faces/cheering for the heels. I would by all means consider myself a smart fan, and yet still I'm a fan of Mason Ryan, Sheamus, Ryback and other big guys, but I'm also a fan of Punk, Bryan, Rhodes and the Zigglers and Mizs.
I agree with what someone already said on this thread, the IWC tends to favor a smaller amount of superstars and they also hate on very huge amount of superstars. But, tbf, I don't like the greatest crowd favourites, Orton and Cena and would take a smark crowd shitting on them, over a casual crowd loving them any day of the week.
I agree with what someone already said on this thread, the IWC tends to favor a smaller amount of superstars and they also hate on very huge amount of superstars. But, tbf, I don't like the greatest crowd favourites, Orton and Cena and would take a smark crowd shitting on them, over a casual crowd loving them any day of the week.
Even though there is some over generalization going on in your post, I do think there is some validity to the claim that the IWC wants to have their way. With a lot of the "IWC" especially the newsletter writers, at times you get the feeling that they aren't judging whether something is good or bad, but they are judging whether something was done to their liking or not.
As for the differences between a casual fan and a hardcore one. Roger Ebert is going to watch movies differently than a casual movie goer. A wine connoisseur is going to have a different opinion on the quality of the wine, than the average person just wanting to get drunk.
Familiarity breeds contempt, and with a hardcore fan because of that familiarity, a hardcore fan is probably watching the product from the a cynical perspective wanting the product to impress them. Whereas a casual fan is watching from an optimistic one, just enjoying what they are seeing without any "insider" biases.
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Re: Why does the casual fan and the IWC fans opinions often differ so vastly?
WWE made the fatal fourway match seem more important so the casuals will buy into that idea for the most part.
For the specific example used in the OP this is the correct answer.
WWE made the fatal fourway match seem more important so the casuals will buy into that idea for the most part.
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Casual fans come and go, but the IWC fans are 4 life!
/cheese mode
/cheese mode
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Iwc are just fed up of being forced fed on what they must like.
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I just refuse to say that, as good as Fryan/Punk was, it's not MOTY. I hate when people start saying MOTY 4-5 months into the year.
Wasn't better than Triple H/Taker, Sheamus/Bryan at ER, Jericho/Punk at ER or Brock/Cena.
It was a good match but damn, get off they dick. I'm debating on leaving this site because now Cena is so vulnerable to much criticism, nobody likes Kofi and we got the ROHbots in full effect because Fryan/Punk had a match that I'm sure wasn't as good as their previous matches on the indy scene.
I was Samoa Joe was in WWE. When Punk & Fryan where coming up, I wasn't into them, Joe was more brutal. Would have been great to have him involved in the match.
Wasn't better than Triple H/Taker, Sheamus/Bryan at ER, Jericho/Punk at ER or Brock/Cena.
It was a good match but damn, get off they dick. I'm debating on leaving this site because now Cena is so vulnerable to much criticism, nobody likes Kofi and we got the ROHbots in full effect because Fryan/Punk had a match that I'm sure wasn't as good as their previous matches on the indy scene.
I was Samoa Joe was in WWE. When Punk & Fryan where coming up, I wasn't into them, Joe was more brutal. Would have been great to have him involved in the match.
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You bring up food/wine and I think that's an interesting comparison. In both food and entertainment, you have your work, or output that is meant to be gulped down and provide instant gratification, then you have your food/entertainment that is supposed to be more substantial. One of the key tricks of bad entertainment, or food, is giving you enough of the stuff your body/mind wants, to trick into thinking "wee I'm having fun." If I'm eating a McDonald's Cheeseburger, I'm going to enjoy it. Why? Because it has salt and grease. I like salt and grease. I get an instant endorphin rush. But that doesn't mean it's good or that I should be impressed with it. The taste isn't there to be savored, it's just there to make me not demand my money back. This isn't bad or anything, unless it keeps me from trying new things and finding stuff that will really make me happy. It's why I took the time to try different beers. I genuinely enjoy the beers I drink because I took the time to hunt down different tastes.
I understand that wrestling is entertainment, but even with entertainment, you have stuff that's built to last and stuff that's to be forgotten. I've seen good times, and I've seen bad with wrestling and the things I clamor for, are the things that I think will point the ship in the right direction. I'm putting my energy behind the stuff that makes me excited, but also behind the stuff that I think points the company back towards the great tv that was on during the attitude era. So when I look at Bryan/Punk that brings me back to seeing Benoit/Angle, or Jericho/HHH or a number of other great feuds.
I really liked the 4 way, and I think that Orton/Sheamus should be THE key feud on Smackdown heading into the summer. But I want to see more than just that. I want to see my guys going at it too, and that means more Punk/Bryan. Part of that is for me, but part of it also because I believe matches like Punk/Bryan, or Angle/Benoit, create as many lifelong fans as HHH/Cactus Jack or even Dude Love/Austin.
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