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The Babyface of WF
Defying the role dynamic
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HHH was the more ideal foil to your Top Babyfaces, Is that saying much though? Probably not.

Foley as others have stated was perfect to help elevate and groom rising talents or just to merely fill in the blanks not to mention he was incredibly over during a peak period in wrestling.
 

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Foley without a doubt.

HHH didn't become a major player till the end of the AE, Foley was a top star from start to finish. He was a big draw, he had lots of great matches, and he made a lot of stars((including HHH).

P.S Foley flying off the cell is arguably the greatest moment in WWE history.
 

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HHH was one of the best villains of all time in 00. Everything people criticize him for is what made him so great. A heel should be manufactured and a bit undeserved. They should be less entertaining than the face. They're not suppose to be cheered.
People tend to overrate him as a heel mainly because of the way he was booked. I remember vividly, Kurt Angle and Stephanie McMahon getting more heat than HHH in 2000, and they didn't need to go over Foley, Austin, or Rock on weekly basis just to maintain that heat.
 

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People tend to overrate him as a heel mainly because of the way he was booked. I remember vividly, Kurt Angle and Stephanie McMahon getting more heat than HHH in 2000, and they didn't need to go over Foley, Austin, or Rock on weekly basis just to maintain that heat.
With Steph it was fans chanting slut at her for standing next to HHH or being cringy on the mic. 90 percent of people would struggle to list 3 moments of her getting heat based off an action of hers.

Yeah Angle had more heat. You're making too big of a deal about crowd reactions though. Scotty Too Hotty was over like Rover. Doesn't mean he's fotc material. The Goof ball antics Angle did generate a response.
 

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I’ll chime in and say yes x-pac was more over than triple h in 98 and 99. So were the new age outlaws. So was chyna. How can you even debate this?
 

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I’ll chime in and say yes x-pac was more over than triple h in 98 and 99. So were the new age outlaws. So was chyna. How can you even debate this?
Because kiddies think "Twiple H WaS Da TOp hEEl dUrInG dA atTitTuDE eRRoR" because he was so dominate during the ruthless aggression era when he was offiically with the bosses daughter booking himself over everyone to the withdrawal of 4-5 million viewers.

Despite the fact that during the Attitude era, Vince Mcmahon was a bigger heel than Triple H, his own mistress at the time Stephanie Mcmahon was a bigger heel than Triple H, Kurt Angle a rookie olympian was a bigger heel than Triple H and Kurt Angle surpassed him in his peak talent year of 2000.

Triple H being the top heel of 2000 is a claim a kid who never watched that year and probably only watched matchcards thinks,

Vince Mcmahon, Stephanie Mcmahon and Kurt Angle were bigger names than Triple H in 2000, best heel ever my ass.

He wasn't even the biggest full time in ring heel of 2000, Kurt Angle was.
 

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90 percent of people would struggle to list 3 moments of her getting heat based off an action of hers.
3? You need to rewatch 2000.

Her annoying voice.

Betraying

Thinking she was hot and the shit, wearing overexaggerated clothing, billionaire princess,

Betraying her father in act of revenge.

Dominating the show with stupid ego filled hold ups, like the roster meetings on Smackdown in late 1999 or making Jericho and Chyna champions.

Slapping her mother Linda.

Firing Mick Foley

Winning the women's title undeservedly

Constantly helping favoring heels like DX, Tori and Kurt Angle.

Mcmahon family reunion swerve at Wrestlemania 2000

That's 10, perhaps I'm missing more and that's ONLY late 1999 - early 2000. Triple H's heat was not even close it only gets worse from here.

Yeah Angle had more heat. You're making too big of a deal about crowd reactions though.
Backlash and KOTR aside because that's Mcmahon's advertised involvment too.

Compare numbers of Kurt Angle heavy main event PPV's like No Mercy 2000, Armageddon 2000 No Way Out 2001 to Triple H heavy main events of Judgement Day 2000, Unforgiven 1999, No Mercy 1999 or Armageddon 1999.

Same cast of Rock, Austin etc, difference is with Kurt you lack Foley.
 

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I think this is a good place to put these videos to show how Foley was a threat to WCW lol.


We all know what this dumb move by WCW did for the RAW rating lol. Total backfire out of trying to NOT have fans switch the channel for Foley's well deserved big moment.

Foley gave WWE 3 stars at once.


Foley wins this debate if anyone is being honest. HHH came into power long after WWF was the dominant league. When they were in fierce competition with WCW, it was Foley on the frontline with Austin and Rock.
 

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With Steph it was fans chanting slut at her for standing next to HHH or being cringy on the mic.
lol. I'd take that over HHH's long boring 30mintues promos.


Yeah Angle had more heat. You're making too big of a deal about crowd reactions though. Scotty Too Hotty was over like Rover. Doesn't mean he's fotc material.

Scotty wasn't THAT over, his move was(The Worm).




The Goof ball antics Angle did generate a response.
Angle was on fire on the mic, that year. People genuinely hated him. Hell, he turned the supposedly top heel in the business, HHH, into a babyface, that's how much people hated Kurt.

With HHH it's different, people hated him because he was regularly beating the three most popular/over wrestlers in the world at that time in Austin, Rock, and Foley, when those guys left, there was no elite babyface for him to leech off, and that led to him getting totally exposed as a heel. The reign of terror is one of the worst thing that ever happened in wrestling, and it's one of the main reasons why the WWE went from sugar to shit within 2yrs, and that's not just me saying this, Pat Patterson said the exact same thing to Vince, and guess what...he got fired for it.
 

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lol. I'd take that over HHH's long boring 30mintues promos.





Scotty wasn't THAT over, his move was(The Worm).






Angle was on fire on the mic, that year. People genuinely hated him. Hell, he turned the supposedly top heel in the business, HHH, into a babyface, that's how much people hated Kurt.

With HHH it's different, people hated him because he was regularly beating the three most popular/over wrestlers in the world at that time in Austin, Rock, and Foley, when those guys left, there was no elite babyface for him to leech off, and that led to him getting totally exposed as a heel. The reign of terror is one of the worst thing that ever happened in wrestling, and it's one of the main reasons why the WWE went from sugar to shit within 2yrs, and that's not just me saying this, Pat Patterson said the exact same thing to Vince, and guess what...he got fired for it.
That's what happens when a mark takes over booking... an NWA mark no ness who made the WWE into an NWA 70's/80's heat promotion with Dusty finishes when it was NEVER one and NEVER meant to operate that way.

Either way... NWA in the 80's lost to cartoony face company the WWF, so to even suggest booking like that should've made Vince look sideways.

Kurt Angle would've been much better in that regard and UNDERSTOOD the business better, after all he wasn't a mark who watched and entered the WWF when it was doing it's SNL type of format in late 1999, he would've continued that route because he loved it so much and it helped him get so over.

Even in the Attitude era it was considered pushing it, with Triple H's 4 month title reign in early 2000 or Kurt's 5 month reign in late 2000/early 2001. THOSE reigns were considered long and the limit back.

If you told me that Triple H would have a 10 month reign in From December 2002-September 2003 I wouldn't have believed you.

Everyone agreed Kurt Angle should be champion in late 2000, only Triple H opposed him until Brisco messed up his political attempt.

Even after Triple H's heel turn in November of 2000 they STILL kept the belt on Kurt Angle, and when they feuded they made Kurt Angle more the heel for their Rumble match, that shows you who was a bigger heel.
 

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lol. I'd take that over HHH's long boring 30mintues promos.





Scotty wasn't THAT over, his move was(The Worm).






Angle was on fire on the mic, that year. People genuinely hated him. Hell, he turned the supposedly top heel in the business, HHH, into a babyface, that's how much people hated Kurt.

With HHH it's different, people hated him because he was regularly beating the three most popular/over wrestlers in the world at that time in Austin, Rock, and Foley, when those guys left, there was no elite babyface for him to leech off, and that led to him getting totally exposed as a heel. The reign of terror is one of the worst thing that ever happened in wrestling, and it's one of the main reasons why the WWE went from sugar to shit within 2yrs, and that's not just me saying this, Pat Patterson said the exact same thing to Vince, and guess what...he got fired for it.
This is VERY telling. Not much to add when one of the greatest minds ever couldn't even stop the trainwreck of nepotism. I say this even not attacking HHH for that "Reign Of Terror" because the company was going downhill anyways with no star power.

HHH sure didn't help things and lucky for everyone Batista slipped on a banana peel into stardom lol.
 

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Foley.

And that's not to knock Triple H. From about mid 99 to the end of the AE, Triple H played the role of top heel on the show very well and delivered in big match situations.

But Foley was just so valuable. When the New Age Outlaws needed someone to help get them over to the next level, Foley stepped up. When Austin needed an opponent after Mania 14, Foley stepped in. When Foley was put into the 2nd HIAC spot, he put his body on the line to create a legendary moment. When Rock needed someone to face in the main event scene before Austin, Foley stepped up in a major way and elevated The Rock's game. When Triple H needed that last push to get him over as a main eventer, Foley stepped up. And lastly, when the show needed something new for the authority figure, Foley did amazing in that spot.
Everything this guy said is correct. Foley was there to create stars HHH place at the time was on top. Nothing on HHH but foley helped put a lot of people there
 

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I say this even not attacking HHH for that "Reign Of Terror" because the company was going downhill anyways with no star power.
I agree, but let's pretend that HHH didn't play a role in that. When he was champion, Raw was getting pummeled by freaking SD, and funny thing is, Raw had a much better roster(in terms of star power).
 

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lol. I'd take that over HHH's long boring 30mintues promos.





Scotty wasn't THAT over, his move was(The Worm).






Angle was on fire on the mic, that year. People genuinely hated him. Hell, he turned the supposedly top heel in the business, HHH, into a babyface, that's how much people hated Kurt.

With HHH it's different, people hated him because he was regularly beating the three most popular/over wrestlers in the world at that time in Austin, Rock, and Foley, when those guys left, there was no elite babyface for him to leech off, and that led to him getting totally exposed as a heel. The reign of terror is one of the worst thing that ever happened in wrestling, and it's one of the main reasons why the WWE went from sugar to shit within 2yrs, and that's not just me saying this, Pat Patterson said the exact same thing to Vince, and guess what...he got fired for it.
They were one of the most popular acts and the worm got huge responses.

And people didn't genuinely hate Angle. He was the fun heel who'd give a scooter to Undertaker, goof on the Rock, bring out a gorilla baby mocking HHH. He had a great heel heat because he was entertaining as f. But end of the day he never could carry an intense rivalry like HHH could.

The reign of terror is a whole different story and by that time everyone was cringe. What do you think would happen if the what chant was around in 98. You think Austin would be a hot act if after everything he said a bunch of booger eaters annoyingly said what. F no WCW would of won the war. You can sh on HHH's reign of terror and rightfully so but it did create 2 out 3 WWE's biggest stars over the next decade in Batista and Orton.
 

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3? You need to rewatch 2000.

Her annoying voice.

Betraying

Thinking she was hot and the shit, wearing overexaggerated clothing, billionaire princess,

Betraying her father in act of revenge.

Dominating the show with stupid ego filled hold ups, like the roster meetings on Smackdown in late 1999 or making Jericho and Chyna champions.

Slapping her mother Linda.

Firing Mick Foley

Winning the women's title undeservedly

Constantly helping favoring heels like DX, Tori and Kurt Angle.

Mcmahon family reunion swerve at Wrestlemania 2000

That's 10, perhaps I'm missing more and that's ONLY late 1999 - early 2000. Triple H's heat was not even close it only gets worse from here.



Backlash and KOTR aside because that's Mcmahon's advertised involvment too.

Compare numbers of Kurt Angle heavy main event PPV's like No Mercy 2000, Armageddon 2000 No Way Out 2001 to Triple H heavy main events of Judgement Day 2000, Unforgiven 1999, No Mercy 1999 or Armageddon 1999.

Same cast of Rock, Austin etc, difference is with Kurt you lack Foley.
I watched it plenty. The fact that you're listing annoying voice, clothes says it all and was my point because that's about 90 of what she did. She was over and a huge reason why HHH had heat but the McMahon touch can be said about every AE member. I don't need to explain how the Vince rivalry propelled Austin. And Vince had more heat then corporate Rock and enhanced his character too but I don't see you saying anything about that. Foley got most of his sympathetic face heat because of his interactions with Vince. It was the comedy hospital sketches that created Mr Socko. Every single prominent AE member benefited from the McMahon's touch.

WWF's numbers raised accordingly from 99 to 00 due to WCW's decline. They picked up talent like Jericho and Eddie, Benoit and was just a lot better product overall in 00. I do agree with what you said in a previous post that by late 00 Angle was the rightful champ and he should get some credit for those numbers but he wasn't the main heel of the AE. He just came on too late for that.
 

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Foley.

And that's not to knock Triple H. From about mid 99 to the end of the AE, Triple H played the role of top heel on the show very well and delivered in big match situations.

But Foley was just so valuable. When the New Age Outlaws needed someone to help get them over to the next level, Foley stepped up. When Austin needed an opponent after Mania 14, Foley stepped in. When Foley was put into the 2nd HIAC spot, he put his body on the line to create a legendary moment. When Rock needed someone to face in the main event scene before Austin, Foley stepped up in a major way and elevated The Rock's game. When Triple H needed that last push to get him over as a main eventer, Foley stepped up. And lastly, when the show needed something new for the authority figure, Foley did amazing in that spot.
You missed Undertaker 97/post WM.
 

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Mick Foley put my ass in that seat every time.
 

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Foley made HHH and Rock in my opinion. Everyone keep talking about Rock vs Austin but Rock feuds with Foley and HHH is what made him.
 

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I would say Mick Foley for sure, however HHH was certainly above X-Pac and NAO. Not sure where that nonsense is coming from. I was around at the time and had been watching WWF since 1985 (before anyone calls me a "revisionist").
 
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