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A few years ago, when ECW was on the air, Zack Ryder won a match against Tommy Dreamer. The stipulation was that if Tommy lost, he had to leave ECW.


Today, Ryder is pretty much a jobber to the stars.

Do you feel Ryder should have been the one to force Dreamer out of ECW? If not, who should it have been?
 

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A few years ago, when ECW was on the air, Zack Ryder won a match against Tommy Dreamer. The stipulation was that if Tommy lost, he had to leave ECW.


Today, Ryder is pretty much a jobber to the stars.

Do you feel Ryder should have been the one to force Dreamer out of ECW? If not, who should it have been?
Come it's not just to the stars Ryder jobs to. ;)

In all seriousness it made some sense at the time as Ryder was at the time seen as a young up and coming heel on ECW therefore what better way to gain heat by getting rid of the man refered to as the heart and soul of ECW?

So although it retrospect it looks worse but at the time it did make some sense to do this.
 

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Come it's not just to the stars Ryder jobs to. ;)

In all seriousness it made some sense at the time as Ryder was at the time seen as a young up and coming heel on ECW therefore what better way to gain heat by getting rid of the man refered to as the heart and soul of ECW?

So although it retrospect it looks worse but at the time it did make some sense to do this.
HHH retired Foley, HBK retired Flair, Undertaker retired HBK, Austin's last match was against The Rock, Nash broke Goldberg's streak, Flair broke Alex Wrights streak, Cena is favourite to retire 'Taker. Yet Tommy Dreamer is retired by Zack fucking Ryder.
 

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Though they were clearly not hot on him at the time, it should've been Punk.


Or Sheamus, as he debuted on ECW (I think?)
 

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HHH retired Foley, HBK retired Flair, Undertaker retired HBK, Austin's last match was against The Rock, Nash broke Goldberg's streak, Flair broke Alex Wrights streak, Cena is favourite to retire 'Taker. Yet Tommy Dreamer is retired by Zack fucking Ryder.
I'm not saying I'm a fan of Ryder at all because I'm not or even that it is correct that Ryder was the person who "retire" Dreamer all I'm saying is that at the time it made theoretical sense and with all the respect in the world to Tommy Dreamer but name wise he isn't as highly regarded as the majority of the people in the example's you have cited so please can you say who should have retired him in your opinion?
 

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Raven. That was the only option even if it was pay by appearance type contract. Maybe Terry Funk and that's a huge maybe
 

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I'm not saying I'm a fan of Ryder at all because I'm not or even that it is correct that Ryder was the person who "retire" Dreamer all I'm saying is that at the time it made theoretical sense and with all the respect in the world to Tommy Dreamer but name wise he isn't as highly regarded as the majority of the people in the example's you have cited so please can you say who should have retired him in your opinion?
Christian, Shelton Benjamin and Regal were more credible at the time and were never out and out jobbers like Ryder, which WWE surely planned, nothing wrong with getting a Smackdown/Raw wrestler to do the job. He was at the top of the promotion (ECW), I'll admit he wasn't at the level of the others, but unless WWE wanted to spite Dreamer, I don't see why someone who they knew would be a jobber was allowed to retire him. Chris Jericho and Rey Mysterio could have done it as well.
 

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I remember this stipulation and I'm glad they didn't force. for Tommy Dreamer to be retired by Zack 'Jobber" Ryder? Now come on Ryder's all right and all but I go with hell no to that.
 

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Nobody.


For one, Dreamer wasn't big enough to give anybody a rub in Vince's ECW.


And that's the only reason I need. Dreamer didn't need to have a "retirement" match. The same could have been accomplished with Dreamer announcing a farewell tour, where for weeks, he would face random talent from his original ECW years, with him going over Raven in his final match. Would have made a lot more sense than what WWE did, considering the same guy that lost a "retirement" match showed up with the competition 6 months later, it was quite pointless.


That was only done as a way where Vince could kill off ECW for good, by having the heart & soul of that company and the guy that's the most synonymous with those 3 letters, lose a "retirement" match.


Good concept in the territory days, as it was then just a "loser leaves town" match but in this era, nobody is going to live up to that deal and you can't really expect to give a guy a push off the strength of winning a "retirement" match. The only guys that should win "retirement" matches are the guys already established or have had a rather lengthy, kayfabe alliance/feud/storyline or past affiliation with the loser.
 

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Well at the time it made sense at least, Ryder was a great up and comer. Heck, back then the two biggest guys on ECW were Christian and Swagger and they haven't really amounted to too much since then in spite of the rubs they got from Dreamer.
 

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Nobody.


For one, Dreamer wasn't big enough to give anybody a rub in Vince's ECW.


And that's the only reason I need. Dreamer didn't need to have a "retirement" match. The same could have been accomplished with Dreamer announcing a farewell tour, where for weeks, he would face random talent from his original ECW years, with him going over Raven in his final match. Would have made a lot more sense than what WWE did, considering the same guy that lost a "retirement" match showed up with the competition 6 months later, it was quite pointless.


That was only done as a way where Vince could kill off ECW for good, by having the heart & soul of that company and the guy that's the most synonymous with those 3 letters, lose a "retirement" match.


Good concept in the territory days, as it was then just a "loser leaves town" match but in this era, nobody is going to live up to that deal and you can't really expect to give a guy a push off the strength of winning a "retirement" match. The only guys that should win "retirement" matches are the guys already established or have had a rather lengthy, kayfabe alliance/feud/storyline or past affiliation with the loser.
I think it would of worked in 2006 when ECW just relaunched. Have one of the new blood guys force Dreamer out of ECW. But the crowd reaction would have been just as bad as RVD losing the ECW title to Big Show.

ECW in 2010 (no meaning, no representation, no attachment) with Dreamer's name being completely devalued, no way.
 

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Maybe Punk in '06. IMO, that could have been the only alternative that wouldn't have been met with overall negativity in '06.


Could have brought him, as they did, but have him turn on Dreamer that fall. The whole concept of December to Dismember should have been different, no Elimination Chamber match (Big Should shouldn't have even been champion) and instead, the main event should've been Punk/Dreamer. Now, I think that would've worked and ECW fans, got Punk over greatly as a heel for the rest of his ECW stay.



Because in reality, Dreamer shouldn't have been wrestling as long as he did in WWE's ECW. Brought nothing to the table and would have been better served as a mentor (possibly to Punk) and you have Punk getting a "rub" and Dreamer off the road.
 
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