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Discussion Starter #1
Over the last 40 years there have probably been at least a hundred guys whose careers have been cut short, crippled or derailed because of horrible WWF writing or poor decisions.

Who are the wrestlers who suffered the most?

My answer would be twofold....

Terry Taylor is obviously in my opinion the star on the rise that the WWF destroyed his career. The guy was destined to be a world title contender until the Red Rooster gimmick. Just an unimaginable bad idea. I did not even like the guy. He wrestled here in my local territory and I could not stand him, but I knew he had what it took to go far. I actually felt bad for the fella when he debuted as the Rooster.

Second I think the Bushwhackers would argue that they did make a lot of money, but heck if the WWF did not ruin one of the most viciously awesome, take no crap tag teams of the 70's and 80's The Sheepherders, and turn them into a team only children could love.
 

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OP, I swear on everything I love, before I clicked on the thread to view, I was going to type Terry Taylor.


Instead, guess I'll go with Taz. ECW spent nearly 3 years building up Taz as a total bad ass, having him destroy everybody. WWE was on the right path with him but suddenly, booked him with Jerry Lawler than completely ruined his legacy by making him look like a bitch during the angle with Austin in the Alliance. Don't know how many years Taz could have lasted but the fact that they took a talent like him and booked him as a coward was pretty bad.

Also, Lex Luger. People bash Luger pretty bad but his JCP run wasn't that bad and early 90s WCW, he showed a glimpse of greatness as a heel after Flair left. Then, WWE gives him a body building gimmick, followed by trying to make him a Hogan clone. Didn't really damage his career but damn, WWE kind of dropped the ball with him.

And who can forget how they booked the Rock N Roll Express, one of the greatest tag teams of all time, in that NWA angle in 1998.
 

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I don't know if I can just pick one so here are a few names that come to mind.

-Vader
-Goldberg
-Raven
-Taz
-Terry Taylor
-DDP....stupid stalker angle...
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
OP, I swear on everything I love, before I clicked on the thread to view, I was going to type Terry Taylor.


Instead, guess I'll go with Taz. ECW spent nearly 3 years building up Taz as a total bad ass, having him destroy everybody. WWE was on the right path with him but suddenly, booked him with Jerry Lawler than completely ruined his legacy by making him look like a bitch during the angle with Austin in the Alliance. Don't know how many years Taz could have lasted but the fact that they took a talent like him and booked him as a coward was pretty bad.

Also, Lex Luger. People bash Luger pretty bad but his JCP run wasn't that bad and early 90s WCW, he showed a glimpse of greatness as a heel after Flair left. Then, WWE gives him a body building gimmick, followed by trying to make him a Hogan clone. Didn't really damage his career but damn, WWE kind of dropped the ball with him.

And who can forget how they booked the Rock N Roll Express, one of the greatest tag teams of all time, in that NWA angle in 1998.
Great minds think alike :cool2

Been thinking about it more. How about the Warlord? I mean the guy obviously had limited ability in the ring, but he had a look that just demanded respect and what was his WWF legacy? Getting eliminated in seconds at the Royal Rumble. Years of building up in the WCW and WWF went down the drain.

Also in the early 90's when the WWF decided to bring in regional stars and give them bad gimmicks as glorified jobbers, like Black Bart, Tracy Smothers, Bill Irwan, and Tony Anthony. All guys who gave their blood to the industry for decades and were jobbed out?
 

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Taz fucking sucked...he wasn't damaged, the WWE did him a favor.

Sent from my HTC Evo
Explain why he sucked?


Besides him, WWE never did anything slightly correct with any WWE talent besides the Dudley Boyz. Jericho, Benoit and Guerrero don't necessarily count, as they were built up in WCW.


Point is, WWE completely killed his momentum and reputation. Sure, he wasn't a legit bad ass but ECW booked him so strong, as a guy who backed down from nobody. Then, WWE had him waste away with Lawler and get punked out by Austin. I don't blame Taz for retiring, WWE really dropped the ball with him, along with Raven, Rhyno, Saturn, Mike Awesome, Sabu, RVD (to an extent), Public Enemy, nearly every wrestler they ever signed away from ECW. But, Taz sticks out the most because of his Path Of Rage and character that ECW built up better than anybody else in history.


Great minds think alike :cool2
Sucks that I can't rep you but you really know your shit when it comes to classic wrestling. Great posting.
 

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WWF fucked up DDP huge. Taz was a cool character and whatever whatever, but like Sandman in WCW he just was not gonna work outside of that ECW scene. DDP was a made commodity. DDP was over as fuck. When he peeled off that ski mask, 20,000 threw up the DC symbol.

Went from being the WCW's Rock to a midcard motivational speaker gimmick in record time. He was doomed from the start as a a stalker of an ugly woman who was beaten by the ugly stick when she was born.

DDP could have made Vince money. He should have gone over Taker and should have had a program with all the top guys including a Rock/DDP money match. I know he was in his 40's and why would WWE push him over all the youn..wait. what the hell am I saying they only pushed 1 WCW guy and he was made to be a bitch for years (Book).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Explain why he sucked?


Besides him, WWE never did anything slightly correct with any WWE talent besides the Dudley Boyz. Jericho, Benoit and Guerrero don't necessarily count, as they were built up in WCW.


Point is, WWE completely killed his momentum and reputation. Sure, he wasn't a legit bad ass but ECW booked him so strong, as a guy who backed down from nobody. Then, WWE had him waste away with Lawler and get punked out by Austin. I don't blame Taz for retiring, WWE really dropped the ball with him, along with Raven, Rhyno, Saturn, Mike Awesome, Sabu, RVD (to an extent), Public Enemy, nearly every wrestler they ever signed away from ECW. But, Taz sticks out the most because of his Path Of Rage and character that ECW built up better than anybody else in history.




Sucks that I can't rep you but you really know your shit when it comes to classic wrestling. Great posting.
Thanks Trouble Trouble, the respect goes both ways here. I only wish there were more posters like you who understand that wrestling has a rich history not to be ignored.

As far as Tazz goes I will admit I am not a fan but I do totally agree with you. It really does not matter who I like, personally I am a total Lawler fan as you probably have gathered, but they really should have taken advantage of the ECW Tazz push. Instead they waisted him.
 

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The thing about Taz that people ignore is, he wasn't your typical ECW wrestler, he was a damn good mat wrestler, before and after he broke his neck. Taz/Guerrero vs. Malenko/Scorpio from 1995 is 1 of the best matches I've ever seen, in a 100 degree plus ECW Arena in the middle of the summer.

WWE could have did so much with Taz and at least put him into a lengthy feud with Angle, since ECW was possibly headed that way in 1996, sort of like unfinished business.


On that note, 2 Cold Scorpio is another guy they damaged. Scorpio was one of the top wrestlers of the 90s but WWE gave him virtually the same gimmick Brodus Clay has now. Aside from a handful of appearances in ECW afterwards, Scorpio ended up moving to Germany and mostly competing in Japan to regain his credibility as one of the most underrated performers of all time. Shame that Scorpio, in his 40s, can still work circles around 80% of WWE's current roster.
 

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The thing that fucked Taz was when Malenko, Saturn, Guerrero, and Benoit came over.

Now all of the sudden WWF have these 4 additional guys who are all tremendous in the ring (like Taz), 3/4 of them had minimal charisma (like Taz), they are all midcrad/upper midcard guys (like Taz), they all 4 suddenly jumped from WWF's biggest rival (unlike Taz), and all 4 of them were established names from the other major company. I know people knew who Taz was, but he was not as known as those 4 because he simply didn't have the exposure yet. I know you'll proablysay watch his debut and his pop and it was a great moment, but it was NY and he's from NY and NY is a huge smart mark town so it is skewed. If he had illicit that response in Louisville then that's one thing, but fact of the matter is he never maintained that level of overness in the WWF.

In the blink of an eye, Taz became redundant.

You can only give so much character development to guys who are primarily only technicians (at the time Angle was a work in progress promo wise but he grew because of the investment of promo time). It went from just Taz/Angle to now Taz/Angle/Benoit/Guerrero/Malenko/Saturn and quite frankly the only person I would consider pushing Taz over would be Saturn. And this was a time with a stacked midcard including Jericho, Edge, Christian, Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, Dudley's, Rikishi, X-Pac, Kane, New Age Outlaws etc. Yes a lot of those are teams, but at the time WWF was devoting serious air time to the tag teams and this was the start of the tag team renaissance with the TLC 6.
 

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Whenever people use lack of charisma as a way of saying why Taz didn't get over, I usually stop reading/listening.


Taz was one of the best mic workers in ECW, had tons of charisma. You will notice a big difference in Taz 96-98 to WWE Taz(z). WWE, from the jump, never booked Taz to showcase his strengths. They always booked him to look far inferior. From day 1, he never got the chance to stand out, all because WWE booking and WCW booking was drastically different. Taz WWE run didn't get completely shitty until the other 2 promotions went out of business, loading up WWE's roster with a bunch of talents they failed to utilize. Not to mention, Taz never let his broken neck properly healed, didn't even know he had a broken neck but all this time, his character never took off. After the injury, 1996 saw a new Taz, who not only was a strong mat wrestler but one of the strongest personalities in the business at the time.

And even in WWE, the first few months of his run where decent, he feuded over the IC Title and had a great showing with Triple H. What fucked Taz over was the Lawler feud and immediately after that, the Invasion angle, which would have been better suited with him, RVD or Booker T as the leaders, not a WWE guy. Injuries mounted up and he retired. WWE tried going off the Taz/Lawler feud of 1997, which was a bad idea. At the end of the day, he had potential, at least as a midcarder, but the way he was booked during the Invasion completely killed it.

After some thinking, I feel Taz going to WWE not only damaged his character, it, along with the Dudleys leaving, was the death of ECW. Part of their whole deal in getting TV was the appeal of Taz and the Dudleys, who left within a month of ECW's first show on TNN (actually, 3 months for Taz but he got his send off in September and was only featured once more on TNN afterwards).
 

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You ar confusing mic ability with charisma. They are not one in the same. Taz obviously has good enough talking ability, fuck he has made a career out of talking the last 10 years.

I stand by saying the addition of Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, and Saturn doomed any serious push Taz would have had. He was doomed long before he got to Jerry Lawler. WWF started off in the right direction with Taz, but then a few weeks later they have 4 WCW guys who are all better than Taz (expect arguably Saturn) fall into there laps. Taz's push came to a screeching halt.

Look at the time line:

January - Royal Rumble - VERY hot debut and went over Kurt Angle. Great start
January - Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, and Saturn unexpectedly joined the WWF. That is 4 solid midcard spots they are taking.
February - No Way Out - Taz goes over Bossman by DQ. Okay I guess
April - WrestleMania - Taz is in the get-everyone-on-the-card Hardcore match thing. Now is when you start seeing he is in trouble. Meanwhile, the guy he beat at the Rumble is in a triple threat with Benoit/Jericho. Perhaps it could have been Taz/Jericho/Angle?
April - Backlash - Once again, taz is in a cluster fuck multi man match
May - Judgement Day - off the card
June - King of the Ring - off the card
July - Fully Loaded - goes over Al Snow. This was almost lower midcard stuff here.
August - SummerSlam - puts over Lawler, but Taz was toast by this point
Septmerb - Unforgiven - goes over Lawler with Ravens help
October - No Mercy - is backin the multi man cluster fuck thing
November - Survivor Series - off the card
December - Armageddon - off the card

By the time the Invasion angle rolle around, Taz was a complete non factor. It was a crime that Taz and Raven were not the 2 ECW focal points of that faction.

Taz's WWF run peaked at the Royal Rumble 2000. Beyond that point he went through large piles of garbage, unmemorable filler, a spot commentating, and that 1 match with Triple H.
 

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People will say RVD won the WWE Title but the fact is, he should have been pushed a lot sooner.

He was one of the few ECW guys that could go to any arena and get a reaction like he would if he was in Philly. Dare somebody to say he lacked charisma, was a horrible wrestler in his prime or flat out, did not have "it".

RVD was main event quality from the jump but WWE booked him as just another guy.



You ar confusing mic ability with charisma. They are not one in the same. Taz obviously has good enough talking ability, fuck he has made a career out of talking the last 10 years.

I stand by saying the addition of Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, and Saturn doomed any serious push Taz would have had. He was doomed long before he got to Jerry Lawler. WWF started off in the right direction with Taz, but then a few weeks later they have 4 WCW guys who are all better than Taz (expect arguably Saturn) fall into there laps. Taz's push came to a screeching halt.

Look at the time line:

January - Royal Rumble - VERY hot debut and went over Kurt Angle. Great start
January - Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, and Saturn unexpectedly joined the WWF. That is 4 solid midcard spots they are taking.
February - No Way Out - Taz goes over Bossman by DQ. Okay I guess
April - WrestleMania - Taz is in the get-everyone-on-the-card Hardcore match thing. Now is when you start seeing he is in trouble. Meanwhile, the guy he beat at the Rumble is in a triple threat with Benoit/Jericho. Perhaps it could have been Taz/Jericho/Angle?
April - Backlash - Once again, taz is in a cluster fuck multi man match
May - Judgement Day - off the card
June - King of the Ring - off the card, but on TV was kinds involved with the IC title but never got any kind of pay off match
July - Fully Loaded - goes over Al Snow. This was almost lower midcard stuff here.
August - SummerSlam - puts over Lawler, but Taz was toast by this point
Septmerb - Unforgiven - goes over Lawler with Ravens help
October - No Mercy - is backin the multi man cluster fuck thing

And despite all that, you ignore Taz vs. Triple H. I know the difference between mic work and charisma, which is why I listed them seperately. So if you say Taz lacked charisma, you obviously haven't seen his work from 96-98. He had the ability to draw people into what he was doing, capture the fans attention, regardless of who he was in the ring with.

As for the events you listed, are you forgetting that Tazz was featured with Angle, Jericho, Benoit, Saturn & Malenko for those first few months on RAW & Smackdown? Remember Angle/Backlund vs. Jericho/Tazz, remember Tazz/Benoit, Jericho/Angle/Tazz, Jericho/Tazz vs Benoit/Saturn or the fact that they still booked Tazz as a badass during all of this? Or what about Tazz, then ECW Champion, facing Triple H for the WWE Title on Smackdown in April, months after the Radicalz debuted? Tazz was still being used properly during all of that. But what really ended it for him? He suffered an injury during the summer of 2000, came back in a feud with Lawler, he got bitched out in the Alliance angle, along with everybody else from ECW and by the end of the year, was a part time wrestler and doing commentary, before retiring February.

In 1 year, Taz had a huge debut, was used properly in matches with various members of the Radicalz (none of which had taken off at that point) and even received a WWE Title shot in a pretty good match with Triple H.

Funny how you say he was in trouble at WM but later that month, would capture the ECW Title and get a WWE Title shot, along with having several good matches on RAW and Smackdown.


We just going in circles now. Point is, Tazz legacy was damaged by WWE. You can't argue that a guy with a legacy like his didn't get fucked over by WWE, regardless of when/how it happened, it happened.
 

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RVD should have been on high card and Main Event...watch the moment where he jump on Kurt and 2nd time on Austin simply epic. on RAW HHH god the spotlight where guys like RVD shoved to the back and push new guy like Orton-Batista?

Taz and RVD simply another guy...WWE never high on them for some reason.
 

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LOL.

Yeah, Tazz peak came when he debuted by beating a guy who had only been in the company for 2 months and hadn't achieved anything at that point.

Forget winning the ECW Title as a WWE contracted performer, competing in the first ECW Champion vs. WWE Champion match on Smackdown, RVD/Tazz vs. Jericho/Angle, various pretty good singles matches with Jericho or even winning the tag team titles. His peak came when he beat a rookie, a guy who was virtually a nobody at that time.
 

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Go ask ANY wrestling fan this question: When you think of Taz in the WWF, what is the one moment you think of?

9/10 of them will say Royal Rumble 2000.The other 1 will say "that random match with HHH"

You know why? Cause that was the most over Taz ever got and the best he ever did in the WWF. He beat a guy who was 4 months on the roster and his stock plummeted from there. Why? Because I am convinced his push went to The Radicalz (Chris Benoit specifically).

A hardcore Taz mark like you will say "oh, well he had this match on SD and this match on Raw and remember that 1 time he was a tag team champion because they just don;t let anybody hold a tag team title" ...who gives a shit about any of that? If you are having to pull all of these supposed "great Taz moments" from random, 1-off Raw and SD's, that shows you how shitty Taz was in the WWF.

It would be like you saying to me (a Christian mark) "what notable matches did Christian ever work in the WWE?" and I say "remember that time he teamed with Goldust and Yoshi Tatsu and they beat Regal and Kozlov.. and remember the time he pinned Zeke Jackson on SD?" Would you remember these instances? NO! Why would you?! They were random matches that didn't matter. You know what percentage of matches in Taz's WWF career did not matter? 98%. Why? Not because Taz wasn't any good because he was very good, but because he was not a meaningful character in the WWF besides night #1. From February 2000 to whenever he retired, he was just another guy. You could literally tell the Story of the WWF and not mention Taz's name once unless you start talking about SD commentators.

Fuck, the only reason people remember Taz/HHH was because Tommy Dreamer hit the ring. It was a throw away match on free TV. WWF saw no money in Taz in any way shape or form, otherwise that match would have been booked more often and on PPV.

His best WWF PPV match? Royal Rumble 2000.
Hiss most memorable WWF PPV match? Royal Rumble 2000.
The only match that ever mattered in Taz's WWF Career? Royal Rumble 2000.
It is a testament to how bad Taz's WWF run was when realize the only notable singles title Taz won while in the WWF was when he beat a WCW guy in front of 200 people for the ECW title in 30 seconds.

I wonder if Taz is ever jealous of the illustrious WWE run Heath Slater got.

We can agree to disagree. What a fool believes he sees... no wise man has the power to reason away...
 

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Go ask ANY wrestling fan this question: When you think of Taz in the WWF, what is the one moment you think of?

9/10 of them will say Royal Rumble 2000.The other 1 will say "the time he called that one match"

You know why? Cause that was the most over Taz ever got and the best he ever did in the WWF. He beat a guy who was 4 months on the roster and his stock plummeted from there. Why? Because I am convinced his push went to The Radicalz (Chris Benoit specifically).

A hardcore Taz mark like you will say "oh, well he had this match on SD and this match on Raw and remember that 1 time he was a tag team champion because they just don;t let anybody hold a tag team title" ...who gives a shit about any of that? If you are having to pull all of these supposed "great Taz moments" from random, 1-off Raw and SD's, that shows you how shitty Taz was in the WWF. Fuck, the only reason people remember Taz/HHH was because Tommy Dreamer hit the ring. It was a throw away match on free TV. WWF saw no money in Taz in way shape or form, otherwise that match would have been booked more and on PPV.

His best WWF PPV match? Royal Rumble 2000.
Is most memorable WWF PPV match? Royal Rumble 2000.
The only match that ever mattered in Taz's WWF Career? Royal Rumble 2000.
Fuck, the only notable singles title Taz won while in the WWF was when he beat a WCW guy in front of 200 people for the ECW title in 30 seconds.

I wonder if Taz is ever jealous of the illustrious WWF run Heath Slater got.
And even with all that, isn't this topic about which wrestler's legacy was damaged by WWE? Funny how many others agree that WWE dropped the ball with Taz in WWE.

In reality, if you ask 10 current wrestling fans about Taz in WWE, I'm willing to bet more than half won't mention a thing about Taz aside from his commentary. And for the record, Angle debuted in November. If November-January equals 4 months, than either my math is flawed or you're just reaching by further proving what I said along, that WWE damaged his legacy.

Easy for Royal Rumble to be his most memorable, he was mostly booked in gimmick matches after that on PPV. Keep in mind that he only competed in 11 of around 40 PPV events as an active wrestler. So, when you view matches like the hardcore battle royal or other multi man matches, when was he the focus or allowed to showcase what he could do? Further proof that WWE damaged his legacy.

You're arguing over nothing, all you're doing is further implying what I said. It's easy to say which match was his most memorable or best when all you're doing is reading results and see that none of his PPV matches lasted over 10 minutes. Fact is, if you watch every Tazz match in WWE, his match with HHH will unanimously be voted the best, not a bunch of hardcore or multi man matches he was placed in due to being often injured and not being able to work the bulk of the match.

This should be the end of it. thru the examples you're giving, you're doing nothing but backing up my argument, WWE damaged his legacy. Pointing out whats memorable or biggest accomplishment further implies that.


So, no need to reply if you're just going to basically agree with what was said, despite trying to argue against it but in the process, cosigning what I originally said. It's pointless. Also, to say WWE saw nothing in Tazz is weird, seeing as if they didn't, they wouldn't have signed him, spent weeks hyping his debut or even booked him evenly with HHH on Smackdown that night.

If they saw nothing in him, he would have been booked like Raven, Scorpio, DDP or other guys they fucked over, from the jump. But whatever, you're entitled to your opinion.
 
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