[Sting&Rock]

I wonder ... on a general level, which type of turn tends to be more interesting, more consistently? A babyface turning heel, or a heel turning face?

I wonder because I've started watching Batman Beyond on Toonova.com, and I saw Mr. Freeze actually turn into a good guy for a little while before buying the farm against Blight. I've seen a few episodes since then, and I've been itching for an inkling that Freeze might have survived, and he'll become a sidekick alongside the new Batman.

So far, my hopes have gone unanswered.

This contradicts a pattern I see in comic books. When a good guy turns bad, it's usually met with apathy from the fans at best, and outright backlash at worst.

Jason Todd
Nightwing
Wolverine

The list goes on and on.

On the other hand, what is generally considered to be the greatest turn in wrestling history was a heel turn. Specifically, it was when Hulk Hogan turned heel in 1996 after over a decade of being a babyface. Meanwhile, lots of fans are demanding that Cena turn heel.

Then again, Sting and Goldberg's heel turns in WCW were complete garbage.

So, generally speaking, in wrestling (not in comics), which type of turn tends to be more interesting, generally speaking?

 

[Mox Girl]

I find faces turning heel more shocking and interesting, especially if it comes out of the blue like Seth Rollins turning on The Shield. The Shield turning face earlier that year wasn't as intense cos everybody knew it was coming cos they'd slowly been heading that way, but Seth turning back to heel on Dean and Roman is one of my favourite turns ever cos it was unexpected.

 

[Ghost Lantern]

Heels turning face are easily more exciting in the history of the sport.

There have been some shocking heel turns in the past, like Hogan's heel turn at BATB or Rollins turn as mentioned above. But those are the exceptions not the rule.

For the most part the heel turning face is more "out of nowhere".

Faces turning heel are 90% telegraphed and easy to predict.

Been watching wrestling for 40 years plus.

Not even close face turns are epically more exciting.

 

[Kabraxal]

Face turns tend to either rely on some amazing story telling to pull off or a build up of real life shit that just suddenly turns the "heel" face because the fans side with the truth.... let's be honest, of "heel" turns, there are actually only a few I can actually remember as huge deals: Hogan, The Freebirds (though not a full turn, they played off the rivalry of the regions), and maybe Seth Rollins (only for the shock value and the "why the fuck did they break them up"). I think HHH's turn in 99 and later in 2002 are noteworthy... but moreso because people wanted him to be that bastard. HHH was never really a great main event babyface. As a baby, he was only midcard to lower uppercard at best... he is just a natural heel.

Very few "heel" turns either worked or it took a long time for it to gel. I mean, one that would have been a standout even a decade ago in CM Punk "turning" on the Rock, wasn't a real turn. A lot of the crowd wasn't turning on him. In fact, he split the crowds in every match he had with the Rock and that is really amazing to sit and actually think about. Or Austin... he was still Austin and I actually found him MORE appealing with some of hte goofiness, but it didn't create a "heel". Sting and Goldberg... yeah, they just sucked. Like Punk and Austin, very few really wanted to boo those guys.

THere are just more memorable face turns in history... Austin at WMXIII, Punk in 2011, Bryan in his build up from that smarmy heel to the megaface, Batista 10 years ago... Savage against Hogan... wait, that was supposed to be a heel turn?! Um, no one told me. That's when I started to get reallllly suspicious of Hogan.. going after another man's girlfriend <_<

But there is the rub... for someone like me, what others considered a "heel" turn I considered "face". Even in the more kayfabe days I supported Savage because I thought Hogan and Liz was shady as hell. I supported a Perfect or Piper because they were telling the truth and backed it up. Hell, even as a "heel", I supported HBK because he was that damn good and didn't give one shit if it rubbed someone the wrong way. So my sense of "heel" and "face" is just nowhere near the defined set that many people grew up with. I mean, if I had my way, Piper would be known as the greatest face since he was a no nonsense, tough son of a bitch that told the truth even if you didn't like it.

Maybe this is why I'm not so liked. I tend to be a blunt motherfucker and I gravitate towards blunt motherfuckers more than pandering shitheads playing at being nice.

 

[2 Ton 21]

Faces turning heel can be more shocking since, like @Greenlawler said, they usually come out of nowhere, but heels turning face, when done right, can pop the crowd like nothing else.

Listen to this crowd at 2:45

 

[Ghost Lantern]

Faces turning heel can be more shocking since, like @Greenlawler said, they usually come out of nowhere, but heels turning face, when done right, can pop the crowd like nothing else.

Listen to this crowd at 2:45

I forgot how awesome that was....great post!

Man that was one of the great ones, back in the territory days nothing could rival the pop of a face turn.

 

[SHEP!]

Yeah I think that both can be a big moment, but a heel turning face is the greater moment to me, because it is less predictable. And if the heel is good at their job, then the crowd will go nuts for the turn. I remember going fucking crazy when Kane turned face for the first time because he was one of my favourites, same with Mankind turning. They start off as great heels and are so damn good that you want to cheer them, and by turning them face you can now embrace that energy.

 

[RetepAdam.]

Heel turns are more shocking. Face turns are generally more beloved, for obvious reasons.

At least in terms of traditional storytelling.

 

[Ghost Lantern]

Heel turns are more shocking. Face turns are generally more beloved, for obvious reasons.

At least in terms of traditional storytelling.

Heel turns are more shocking......nah. No disrespect intended.

There are exceptions but most of the time they are telegraphed, especially today. You can count on two hands the number of actual shocking heel turns. Maybe the Freebirds, Andre, Hogan, Michaels, Rollins and others, but face turns, especially in the 70's and 80s very few people saw coming.

 

[RetepAdam.]

Heel turns are more shocking......nah. No disrespect intended.

There are exceptions but most of the time they are telegraphed, especially today. You can count on two hands the number of actual shocking heel turns. Maybe the Freebirds, Andre, Hogan, Michaels, Rollins and others, but face turns, especially in the 70's and 80s very few people saw coming.

Heel turns are supposed to be shocking.

Face turns, on the other hand, are supposed to have plenty of buildup. Otherwise, why the hell would we accept that they're just a good guy all of a sudden? Whereas heels are always given a chance to explain their actions and their newfound bad guy traits.

You've already listed five. How about five more off the top of my head? The Rock (1998), Chris Jericho (2008), CM Punk (2009), Mark Henry (2013) and Kevin Owens (2015).

Funny, though, I... can't think of too many shocking face turns.

 

[siam baba]

the first thing i noticed when i think back of face/heel turns is they are criminally overrated. everybody is talking about turning wrestelrs all the time, as if it was necessary and a safe way for creating excitement. they then bring up the great heel turns like Hogan as example. but thinking back i noticed that there arent as many heel/face turns that matter in general. most of them caused little to no reaction from myself, and many i dont even remember.

so wrestlers dont need to turn as often and people need to be stop talking about face/heel turns all the time because they are not that big of a deal except for the few legendary turns in history and can even to be harmfull to the character, or Wrestling and ist credibilyt itself

 

[TheBeastLesnar]

As everyone mentioned faces turning to heels are more shocking since they usually come out out of the blue like rollins or hogan maybe even austin in WMX17 though there are some face turns which are quite shocking think brock lesnar turning face in 2002 austin turning back face in 2001 and triple h turning face in 2006 especially after all the things they did as heels like when austin attacked lita or when brock tapped out hogan or when triple h hospitalized hbk in 2004 yeah

 

[Mazodus]

I think both are as good as each other when executed right.

These days they tend to rush into them when characters aren't working, and they don't get time to develop gradually. The New Day is a good example of character development that needed time to grow and now is super over even as tweener/heels. They also have a great opportunity to turn full fledged face down the line now that they are established.

The other aspect is surprise factor. There are people we really may want to see turn face/heel but if it's predictable, it doesn't have quite the same effect. For example no one saw the Rollins heel turn coming and it was unreal. However with the growing speculation of a Ambrose heel turn, that wouldn't have the same effect because people have the seed planted already.

Notable turns for me that would achieve great results just for the record:

John Cena heel turn (der)
Roman Reigns heel turn
Wyatt family face turn

Notable turns that would mean jack shit:

Ambrose heel turn
Ryback heel turn
Big Show any turn
Ziggler heel turn

 

[ONEWAY]

it depends on who it is and the situation. I've been watching since 1988, and I've seen both pulled off brilliant and horrendous.

Best heel turn I have seen was Shawn Michaels super kicking Marty Jannetty. That really set the tone for the rest of HBK's career. Have not witnessed more of a career defining moment since then.

Best face turn was Stone Cold, and it is not even close. Was so fun to live through the most organic over heel gradually slowly get more and more over to the point of blowing up to one of the top fan favorites of all time. His feud with Bret Hart was :banderas

 

[Rocky Mark]

I'm a fan of badass heels turning face, only if it's a "spur of the moment" turn where the heel (now babyface) gets a huge pop and stands tall, that kind of booking could improve a wrestler's career and get him much over

I prefer that kind of face turn than a long, obvious, and dragged out face turn that you could spot from the moon, or something that's been done way too much like a heel leader getting betrayed by his minions.

That's why if they are gonna turn Bray Wyatt into a face maybe a year from now, I hope it's on his terms and not by getting betrayed by the other members. IMO if someone turns babyface he needs to look very strong during the turn

 

[LaMelo]

All heel turns are shocking except Big Show!

 

[Drago]

Heels turning face are easily more exciting in the history of the sport.

There have been some shocking heel turns in the past, like Hogan's heel turn at BATB or Rollins turn as mentioned above. But those are the exceptions not the rule.

For the most part the heel turning face is more "out of nowhere".

Faces turning heel are 90% telegraphed and easy to predict.

Been watching wrestling for 40 years plus.

Not even close face turns are epically more exciting.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Lockard The GOAT]

Heels turning face are easily more exciting in the history of the sport.

There have been some shocking heel turns in the past, like Hogan's heel turn at BATB or Rollins turn as mentioned above. But those are the exceptions not the rule.

For the most part the heel turning face is more "out of nowhere".

Faces turning heel are 90% telegraphed and easy to predict.

Been watching wrestling for 40 years plus.

Not even close face turns are epically more exciting.

I've always found it to be mostly the opposite. You can usually tell when so-and-so is about to turn good because it's built up to, and while there are a handful of heel turns that are telegraphed beforehand (Savage in '89, Owen in '94, Bret in '97, Christian in '01, Jericho in '01, Edge in '04, Eddie in '05, etc.), it generally comes out of nowhere much more so when a babyface turns heel. A lot of heels that turn don't even necessarily have an official turn per se, the audience just starts gravitating towards them and the company then follows suit and starts booking them against heels without building an actual storyline around their turn. RVD in '01 being the best example.

 

[Ghost Lantern]

I've always found it to be mostly the opposite. You can usually tell when so-and-so is about to turn good because it's built up to, and while there are a handful of heel turns that are telegraphed beforehand (Savage in '89, Owen in '94, Bret in '97, Christian in '01, Jericho in '01, Edge in '04, Eddie in '05, etc.), it generally comes out of nowhere much more so when a babyface turns heel. A lot of heels that turn don't even necessarily have an official turn per se, the audience just starts gravitating towards them and the company then follows suit and starts booking them against heels without building an actual storyline around their turn. RVD in '01 being the best example.

Nah, sorry I just flat out disagree.

I can name turn after turn, from Austin Idol, Joe LeDuc, Masked Superstar, Dream Machine, Hacksaw Duggan, Butch Reed, Randy Savage, Freebirds, Tommy Rich, Nikita Koloff, Dusty Rhodes, Dich Murdoch, Dutch Mantell, Tojo Yammamoto they all shocked the crowd....I could go on, and on, and on.