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Which Evolution Star became Bigger?

  • Batista

    Votes: 94 62.7%
  • Randy Orton

    Votes: 56 37.3%
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Sadly, Batista - he was constantly in the main event and was inexplicably popular. I struggle to understand why. Fair enough, he looked good and his character was credible. Unfortunatley, all of his matches were dreadful. His wrestling style never appealled to me. I always thought he was overrated and undeserving of his spot. I guess WWE needed a monster after Lesnar left.

The way that people talk about Batista on this forum makes me wonder of I'm missing something. Tonight I'll go back and watch some his biggest matches / most talked about matches and see if I can find some redeemable quality that I'd overlooked previously. To me he was just a jacked up, toned down, 21st Century Ultimate Warrior.
You can't say with that any semblance of objectivity.

Batista vs. Christian - Raw 2005
Batista vs. Triple H - Vengeance 2005
Batista vs. JBL - Summerslam 2005
Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero - No Mercy 2005
Batista vs. Undertaker - Wrestlemania 23, Backlash 2007, Smackdown 2007, Cyber Sunday 2007, Survivor Series 2007
Batista vs. Edge - Vengeance 2007, Night of Champions 2008
Batista vs. Shawn Michaels - Backlash 2008, One Night Stand 2008
Batista vs. Cena - Summerslam 2008, Wrestlemania 26, Extreme Rules 2010, Over The Limit 2010
Batista vs. MVP - Smackdown Series (most notably the No DQ match)
Batista vs. Kane - Smackdown 2007, Last Man Standing 2007
Batista vs. Randy Orton - Armageddon 2008
Batista vs. Chris Jericho - Raw 2008 (in May I think), Cyber Sunday 2008
Batista vs. CM Punk - Great American Bash 2008, Raw 2008

A mixture of good and great matches. He has even more when taking into account tag matches or with more than two men involved. And if you want matches with lesser known stars at the time, check out his work with Dolph, Ted Dibiase, Morrison, Burke etc. He even gave those men pretty good matches although they were short (looking around 8 - 10 minutes).

Batista is far from being dreadful in the ring. For a big man, he was good, and in 2007 especially, he was great. If anything, his age and size worked against him because you can see him slowing down throughout 2008 quite noticeably.

The most important part of becoming a star is charisma/presence. Batista screamed "big-time" in 2005. Since then, he improved in the ring, on the mic, and as a pro-wrestler overall.

If I was to compare Orton and Batista's talents, I'd give Batista every category except for in-ring skills. He's far more charismatic, has much more of a presence, is a bigger draw, was a better/bigger face, and he proved he can be a great heel too. On the subject of in-ring skills, I'd say Batista has many more memorable matches to his career than Randy Orton. That may be partly due to the fact he was a much bigger star though.
 

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haha i cant believe orton is actually getting some votes? i mean batista is obviously the bigger star. orton has been pushed down our throats and people still dont like him. all it took for batista to get huge was a win against triple h and then boom....superstardom
 

· The Winds of Change
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Since both men's time in Evolution to now... it would be Batista. He and Cena were like he said, "the two biggest stars since the Attitude Era". To be fair though, while Cena and Batista were the two biggest stars of this era, Orton is only a rung below them. At the rate Orton is going with the reactions he receives from the live crowds, and seeing as Orton signed that 10 year deal with WWE last year or in 2009...Orton will probably end up being the bigger star when it's all said and done.
 

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Batista vs. Christian - Raw 2005
Batista vs. Triple H - Vengeance 2005
Batista vs. JBL - Summerslam 2005
Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero - No Mercy 2005
Batista vs. Undertaker - Wrestlemania 23, Backlash 2007, Smackdown 2007, Cyber Sunday 2007, Survivor Series 2007
Batista vs. Edge - Vengeance 2007, Night of Champions 2008
Batista vs. Shawn Michaels - Backlash 2008, One Night Stand 2008
Batista vs. Cena - Summerslam 2008, Wrestlemania 26, Extreme Rules 2010, Over The Limit 2010
Batista vs. MVP - Smackdown Series (most notably the No DQ match)
Batista vs. Kane - Smackdown 2007, Last Man Standing 2007
Batista vs. Randy Orton - Armageddon 2008
Batista vs. Chris Jericho - Raw 2008 (in May I think), Cyber Sunday 2008
Batista vs. CM Punk - Great American Bash 2008, Raw 2008
*Looks at all his opponents...
 

· Recognize
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Batista and its not even close. 10 years down the line I think it will be a different answer but right now its comfortably Batista. I'm a huge Orton fan but he's barely made a blip on the radar in terms or ratings/buyrates/etc etc.
 

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I could be wrong but wasn't it Orton's attitude and his backstage antics that slowed down his career, not his face turn?
Well yeah those came after the face turn. But the face turn really fucked him up. He was red hot as the legend killer and that shit just killed his career. He had to feud with the Undertaker for a whole year and still wasn't over, which led to him trashing Eddie Guerrero after his death to get heat lol.

*Looks at all his opponents...
So what? The matches weren't dreadful. All I see are main event guys which is pretty much all he worked with since 2005. It usually takes two to tango in the ring unless you're HBK or Chris Benoit. Do you really expect him to be carrying The Great Khali to good matches or something?

Batista was no Shelton Benjamin, but he had great ring psychology and intensity that carried his matches.
 

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i voted for randy but i would say Batista. I loved the Age of Orton when he was taking out superstars but randy had low highlight moments, the only thing i remember as an Orton´s highlight was when he feud with taker and burned him and when he had that no old barred match at backlash 2004 , Batista is just better, he was pushed at Mania 21, but when he was an Evolution he was so underrated, but at 2005 i loved to see batista.
 

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I think people are only looking at this as these 2 as faces.

Orton was one of the best heels ive ever seen, Ric Flair is one of the biggest stars of all time and he played the role as heel for most of his carer.
 

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i voted for randy but i would say Batista.

So this is how Orton got so many votes fpalm

Batista>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rand Orton

Not even close
 

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Batista is the bigger star. He headlined so many PPVs and both shows he was on that it was getting me annoyed. I can't forget all those countless title shots he kept on getting too. I kinda miss Batista now and thats only because his heel persona last year was entertaining. Orton is gaining huge popularity right now but his face act is not as great as his heel act. So Orton still needs some more time to get up there.
 

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*Looks at all his opponents...
Doesn't work.

The only person on that list who could have a good match with pretty much anybody is Eddie Guerrero. It speaks to his ability that he was able to carry the 2005 Batista to such a good match.

But Shawn Michaels doesn't tear up the house no matter who the opponent, nor does Undertaker, nor does Triple H. They've had plenty of stinkers, even with good opponents. And I think it's quite the insult to try and insinuate Kane is a better wrestler than Batista in 2007. Kane was great back in the day. But he's been a shell of his former self since several years back. As for JBL and MVP, they've never been better than Batista in the ring.

Or to put it another term, Batista/Kane Last Man Standing is better than any recent Taker/Kane match. Batista/Triple H at Vengeance 2005 inside Hell In A Cell is a far better Hell In A Cell match than the ones that came after it. Batista/MVP is better than MVP/Orton or MVP/Matt Hardy. Batista/Mark Henry on Smackdown was better than Undertaker/Henry on PPV. Batista/Ted Dibiase was better than Cena/Ted Dibiase or Orton/Ted Dibiase. Batista/Edge from 2005 sucked, yet Batista/Edge from 2007/2008 were some good/great matches (because Batista had improved so much). I could come up with several more comparisons too.

Chemistry and match quality isn't determined by one superstar. As already said by another poster, it takes two to tango. Batista was good pro-wrestler for a big man. Undertaker has worked with many superstars in his career. His work with Batista is close to being his best. That didn't happen off Undertaker's back alone.
 

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Batista was no Shelton Benjamin, but he had great ring psychology and intensity that carried his matches.
Ironically two things which for the most part Benjamin lacked as a singles performer. It's no coincidence that almost all of Benjamin's best matches, save for against Orton in 2004, who's always had a precocious grasp of psychology himself, have been against battle-hardened veterans who knew a great deal about in-ring psychology.

As for the question itself, this isn't even arguable. It speaks volumes to how one man organically rose to the top within the timeframe of a few mere months and was at the very least the #2 man in the company throughout his entire run, drawing major gates, buyrates, ratings and being the spearhead of WWE's international marketing and in many ways their top international star until a couple years ago or so, and and the other, after one extremely hard push after another after another, has yet to actually impact much of anything yet, though I will say he's become a solid sidekick to Cena on Raw in the past year or so as a face.

Orton has, I think, another nine years of a contract with WWE as of now, so he's got a long, long way to go, but despite the fact that he'll doubtless be considered a "legend" in only a few years and he's currently one of their three biggest draws with so many guys out of action amidst their pushing of numerous young guys to the top, it's unlikely that he'll ever reach the levels Batista did (and sustained) in his run. Probably the best thing that could happen for Orton is the continuation of pushes/completion of establishing of guys like Punk, Miz, and a host of others, who offer fresh match-ups for him (and Cena), but at the same time I can also see at least a couple of these guys become bigger stars than Orton himself and supplant his #2 spot.

It also speaks volumes that Vince McMahon in his latest quarterly report brings Orton up as possibly the "next Cena" alongside names such as The Miz and Alberto Del Rio. I'd say that's a huge compliment for Miz and Del Rio, who are in their virginal main event pushes, but while Orton's only 30 years old, he's also been either at or just beneath the main event tier for years and years now, and he's still being spoken of as a young star potentially rising up to rival Cena. Orton has star value, particularly since turning face, he's a sound asset and he's absolutely a vital and important piece of the WWE puzzle right now, but he's where he is right now mainly because of departures and pending retirements of guys who are already part-time workers in the next couple of years, and if somebody like, say, Punk or Miz or Del Rio, catches on strongly, especially once they've turned face, I can see them or someone else becoming WWE's new #2 guy behind Cena.

It's clear that Vince isn't satisfied with Orton's performance up to date in his spot, as gates went down along with buyrates while Orton was headlining Raw as a face, meaning that if he were to ever substantially change WWE's figures, he'd probably have done so in the last year as a red-hot, newly-turned babyface and it just didn't happen. I suspect they'll stick with Orton as a face for a good while because from an artistic standpoint he had kind of exhausted his heel run by about a year ago now, and a significant number of fans had been wanting him to cheer him for a long time before then, but it's very likely that one of the current "Youth Movement" heels will be turned face once they've established and/or exahusted themselves as a heel to find the "next Cena" as Vince said. This truly is a transitional time period, and Vince knows exactly what he's looking forward to in the near future, with Wrestlemania XXVII being in his words the actual launch date of a number of "new talents."
 

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Objectively, Orton has really only been on the level of guys like Edge and Chris Jericho. Accruing short transitional title reigns and jobbing to bigger stars.
 

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Batista. Never a big fan, but Batista was one of the top guys for a long time, Randy just came into his own in '09.

To put is simply, Batista was at a level that Randy has yet to reach, both in terms of star power and charisma.
 

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I don't think it's fair to say who became the bigger star, Orton is still young and may have a lot more to offer in his career. When Orton retires then you can say.
 
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