[AliFrazier100]

He was probably the 3rd most over wrestler during the Attitude Era. But he was never the face of the company, and probably wasn't suited to be.

If it were football, he would have been better at his position than most quarterbacks were at theirs. But quarterbacks are still more important.

 

[Ghost Lantern]

So from the dawn of the wrestling era to today....Are we really putting Foley in the top 20?

No chance.

I think the rub on a lot of these "all time lists" is that many fans are WWE only fans. They view wrestling from a 20 or 30 year WWE bubble without considering how massive pro wrestling was before the WWE exsisted.

I personally love Foley but in the 200 year history of pro wrestling are we really calling Foley a top talent?

 

[the_flock]

Yes, Foley did a huge bump off the cell, and was one of the most popular wrsstlrrsvin the Eorld until uis retirement in 2000. That's 20 months. Compare that with Steiner being a top star for most of two decades, and being the only draw rhe WCW had for its final year.





Steiner was bigger than Luger from mid 1998 onward. In fact, with the exception of 1998-2000, Luger was far ahead of Foley from 1987-1997. Foley had the greater peak, but Foley was not even in Lugers league for 10 years prior.

Luger was massively over in 97, this gets downplayed a lot. I think he was even more over than Sting.

You're talking about longevity rather than bigger peak, I get that.

 

[the_flock]

Funny. Goldberg was more well known and a bigger name to the American public than Mankind ever was, but Mankind's book sold better. Being a huge name in an industry is no guarantee of success, once the performer tries other non-wrestling related ventures.

Foley had a better story to tell. Goldberg had a good story until he got.in to wrestling, then it came a bit generic.

 

[the_flock]

Cool fact. Now, for context, how many of those segments was he the one leading it?

Surprisingly David Flair was a very solid draw.

I've spoken about this before, but there are details out there which show that an interview with just David Flair was the highest rated segment that night.

When I was at college, people.loved David Flair and Crowbar.

 

[Rozzop]

Would Foley have ever gotten over as much as he did if it wasn't for the hell in a cell match with undertaker?

 

[CovidFan]

Would Foley have ever gotten over as much as he did if it wasn't for the hell in a cell match with undertaker?

He wouldn't have become champion with it, so no. But that was the whole point of the first bump. The second was just a fortunate or unfortunate bonus depending how you look at it.

 

[Honey Bucket]

Would Foley have ever gotten over as much as he did if it wasn't for the hell in a cell match with undertaker?

On the whole, the HIAC did nothing to raise Foley’s stock, or even gain him new fans. He did a promo on Heat (back when it mattered) a few weeks later when he was still a heel, and he mentioned that he would have to ‘die in the ring and still nobody would give a damn’. At the Fully Loaded PPV, he was the fourth wheel behind the whole Taker/Kane ‘are they in cahoots’ angle, and well…Austin was Austin - he was mega over anywhere he went. It seemed like the HIAC was a distant memory, only a month after it occurred.

Foley’s popularity grew through organic fashion as he was getting a slightly more comedic edge, yet gaining lots of sympathy after the betrayal at Survivor Series 98. He was an underdog who the fans could relate to, and the love from the fans just grew week after week at the tail end of 98.

 

[RealDealNow]

Yeah, they did a great job of turning Mankind into a downtrodden victim of betrayal that the audience could sympathize with. From there Foley's stock shot up tenfold. Funnily enough, the "Mr Socko" gag also played a big part in turning Foley into a mega babyface.

 

[Ghost Lantern]

Okay I am going to map this out. This is clearly my opinion as a fan of wrestling history who honestly loves Foley.

Here are the wrestlers clearly above Mick....there is no question IMO these guys are above Foley...this includes 41 wrestlers.

Jim Londos, Ed Lewis, Bronco Nagurski, Geroge Hackenschmidt, El Santo, Lou Thesz, Argentino Rocca, Verne Gagne, The Super Inteligent Destroyer, Rikkidozan, Buddy Rogers, Bobo Brazil, Whipper Watson, Killer Kolwalski, Georgeous George, Giant Baba, Bruno Sammartino, Andre "The Giant", Giant Baba, Mil Mascaras, Harley Race, Blue Demon, Nick Bockwinkel, Ric Flair, Jerry Lawler, Tatsumi Fujinami, Bob Backlund, Randy Savage, Antonio Inoki, Tigermask (Misawa) Dusty Rhodes, Jushin Liger, Terry Funk, Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper, HBK, Bret Hart, Undertaker, Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena, Brock Lesner.

Here is where Foley fits in....These are the wrestlers Foley is on par with. Here is another 44 wrestlers who are questionably better or worse all time.

Farmer Burns, Stanislaus Zbyszko, Joe Stetcher, Dick Shitkat, The Crusher, Earl Caddock, Pat O'Conner, Gene Kiniski, Dorey Funk Jr., The Great Gama, Mad Dog Vachon, Abdullah The Butcher, Karloff Legarde, Gory Guerrero, Billy Graham, Jackie Fargo, Kerry Von Erich, Ivan Koloff, Ricky Steamboat, Ricki Choshu, Sgt Slaughter, Mr Wrestling 2, Jimmy Snuka, The Great Sasuke, Iron Shiek, Ultimo Dragon, Perro Aguayo, The Great Muta, El Canek, Sting, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, HHH, Vader, Dr Wagner Jr., Konan, Ultimate Warrior, Kane, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Goldberg, Jake Roberts, Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, CM Punk, Roman Reighns.

So at best IMO Foley is the 45th-95th best all time, but realistically he's more like the 70th best.

 

[JohnMena]

Mick Foley although not a top 10 wrestler still is in about the 30-40 area of rankings for me personally. The in your house mind games match against shawn, hell in a cell bump and royal rumble 2000 match against triple h were all amazing moments/matches and hold up today,cementing mick foley's status as a top wrestler.

 

[I'm Better Than You & YKI]

Foley was behind Hart, HBK, Nash, Hall, Flair, Savage, Piper, Warrior, Angle, Andre, Steiner, Undertaker, Cena, Bryan, Jericho, Punk, Sting, and others.

I was just waiting to read something stupid today. Whew, okay look bro. Foley was #3 babyface behind arguably the 2 biggest stars of all time (Rock/Austin) during arguably the most popular era of wrestling of all time.

Some people on your list, you could make a reasonable debate for, but for you to think Danielson, Jericho, Punk and Steiner were ever bigger than Foley was at his peak, that's non-sense.

For whatever it's worth, Foley was apart of the most-watched quarters in RAW history (multiple, including #1 most-watched).

If we're making a mount rushmore based on drawing money and who became a household name, etc., my top 2 tiers would look like this:

Tier 1: Hogan / Austin / Rock / Cena

Tier 2: Reigns / Undertaker / HBK / Foley

Tier 3 (harder to narrow down): Ric Flair / Andre / Savage / Hall / Nash / Bruno / Sting / Goldberg / Kane / Triple H / Brock

 

[redban]

Some people on your list, you could make a reasonable debate for, but for you to think Danielson, Jericho, Punk and Steiner were ever bigger than Foley was at his peak, that's non-sense.

I would put Jericho over Foley though. He had a peak in the Attitude Era where he wasn't so far behind Foley, and his longevity is historic. Jericho was also an elite in-ring worker . I'd have Foley over Danielson, Punk, and Steiner though

 

[gillbergisback]

I was just waiting to read something stupid today. Whew, okay look bro. Foley was #3 babyface behind arguably the 2 biggest stars of all time (Rock/Austin) during arguably the most popular era of wrestling of all time.

Some people on your list, you could make a reasonable debate for, but for you to think Danielson, Jericho, Punk and Steiner were ever bigger than Foley was at his peak, that's non-sense.

For whatever it's worth, Foley was apart of the most-watched quarters in RAW history (multiple, including #1 most-watched).

If we're making a mount rushmore based on drawing money and who became a household name, etc., my top 2 tiers would look like this:

Tier 1: Hogan / Austin / Rock / Cena

Tier 2: Reigns / Undertaker / HBK / Foley

Tier 3 (harder to narrow down): Ric Flair / Andre / Savage / Hall / Nash / Bruno / Sting / Goldberg / Kane / Triple H / Brock

Bryan and Foley are pretty much the same type of character only Daniel Bryan reached the Pinnacle and won a WM main event. They're both the underdog, super over with fans but don't have the look so can't really be the guy. It's no accident Foley was feuding with the Corporate champ while Daniel Bryan was feuding with the Authority's champ.

I'd put Bryan above him too due his WM 30 run. He also has 2 championship runs as a heel that led to a Mania match vs Kofi/ Sheamus. You can argue Foley never got to Bryan's level as a face or heel granted having multiple belts made that easier for Bryan.

 

[redban]

Bryan and Foley are pretty much the same type of character only Daniel Bryan reached the Pinnacle and won a WM main event.

Yeah - Bryan did so at a time when it was easier to get that spot. Just a few years prior, Miz won a WM main-event too.

And though Foley didn't "win a WM main-event," his interference in the 'Mania 15 main event was a critical spot in that show, surpassing Bryan's WM 30 moment

 

[gillbergisback]

Yeah - Bryan did so at a time when it was easier to get that spot. Just a few years prior, Miz won a WM main-event too.

And though Foley didn't "win a WM main-event," his interference in the 'Mania 15 main event was a critical spot in that show, surpassing Bryan's WM 30 moment

Disagree. Ask Punk how easy it is to win the main event at WM. Miz won as a 3rd wheel to build Rock v Cena. It was an anomaly. He's essentially Bam Bam. Everyone knows he's not a main eventer but the situation called for it. You take that one fluke out and only the cream of the cop in Vince's eyes get that honor.

Daniel Bryan was never meant to be in the main event at WM the fans demanded it. Conversely Foley was taken out of it and everyone said sounds about right. You're crediting Foley for Austin's moment. Being a ref is nowhere near what Bryan did.

 

[KingLobos]

If the argument against Foley is he wasn’t on Austin or Rock’s level. See every wrestler in WWE history sans Hulk Hogan.

 

[redban]

If the argument against Foley is he wasn’t on Austin or Rock’s level. See every wrestler in WWE history sans Hulk Hogan.

Correct. it's like saying Lou Gehrig isn't a better first baseman than Johnny Mize because Lou Gehrig was always so far behind Babe Ruth

 

[Jets4Life]

Tier 1: Hogan / Austin / Rock / Cena

Tier 2: Reigns / Undertaker / HBK / Foley

Tier 3 (harder to narrow down): Ric Flair / Andre / Savage / Hall / Nash / Bruno / Sting / Goldberg / Kane / Triple H / Brock

It's funny that you would be critical of my post on Foley, that come up with your "Tier" system, which is ridiculous. It's giving too much credit to the last 20 years, and deliberately ignores the 20th century. Most people who can appreciate wrestling in the 80s, and prior, know that Savage/Andre/Flair/Bruno were ahead of HBK and Foley. Reigns...really? That's pretty hilarious.

 

[gillbergisback]

I'd say the comparison is you guys are pretending Klay Thompson is better than say Allen Iverson because he played with Curry. You're elevating him over others based off the talent that was around him.

Rock and Austin were the stars Foley was Robin. And yeah that is likely the case with everyone as Rock and Austin would overshadow them but you can't give Foley extra points just because he played next to Austin, Rock.

Look at this way if Vince could get Foley back in his prime for 1 night what's his role? He's not facing Reigns. He's likely putting over Rollins. He's not the elite superstar you guys are portraying him as and really does fall on the 3rd or 4th tier.