[redban]

On one hand — he wasn’t a gifted in-ring talent, his career was somewhat shortened, and he was famously known for being a transitional champion, not “the man.”

On the other hand, he was extremely popular in the Attitude Era, right behind Austin and Rock in 1999-2000 as a top draw. He had elite mic skills. He was dedicated to the extent that he would have destroyed himself by taking the worse possible bumps. He was versatile, able to play several roles from comedy to sadistic. And for what it’s worth to you: he was known as one of the nicest backstage figures (Eddie would talk about how Foley made him, Benoit, Malenko, and Saturn feel welcome when they arrived in WWF)

would you rank Foley on the same level (or above), say, Kurt Angle? Eddie Guerrero? CM Punk? Shawn Michaels?

 

[PhineasGodwin]

I'd rank him the tier just below the absolute greats(Hogans Austins etc)
He has a number of classic matches.His matches were always entertaining and always had lots of emotion when needed.His characters were brilliant and i'd say he's one of the greatest promo guys ever.i don't think he gets enough credit for just how good he was on the mic.

 

[Municipal Waste]

On one hand — he wasn’t a gifted in-ring talent, his career was somewhat shortened, and he was famously known for being a transitional champion, not “the man.”

On the other hand, he was extremely popular in the Attitude Era, right behind Austin and Rock in 1999-2000 as a top draw. He had elite mic skills. He was dedicated to the extent that he would have destroyed himself by taking the worse possible bumps. He was versatile, able to play several roles from comedy to sadistic. And for what it’s worth to you: he was known as one of the nicest backstage figures (Eddie would talk about how Foley made him, Benoit, Malenko, and Saturn feel welcome when they arrived in WWF)

would you rank Foley on the same level (or above), say, Kurt Angle? Eddie Guerrero? CM Punk? Shawn Michaels?

The tier just below those guys. And he was so good at everything else that he basically lands at a near-elite tier despite being an actually full-on subpar ring worker outside of bumps.

 

[Ghost Lantern]

I would rank Foley around 40-50 all time. He had the charisma, bump taking, and push to rank him in the elite category. But he was not among the top 40 all time.

 

[Fearless Viper]

He ruined his legacy when he had that "This is your life" segment with Cena.

 

[Jets4Life]

I would rank Foley around 40-50 all time. He had the charisma, bump taking, and push to rank him in the elite category. But he was not among the top 40 all time.

Exactly.

Foley was awesome during 1998-2000, but for the prior 15 years, he had been midcard at best. Additionally, we can't realistically say he was just a notch below Rock/Austin/Hogan/etc.

Foley was behind Hart, HBK, Nash, Hall, Flair, Savage, Piper, Warrior, Angle, Andre, Steiner, Undertaker, Cena, Bryan, Jericho, Punk, Sting, and others.

He would be lucky to make the top 40 of the past 40 years.

 

[redban]

Exactly.

Foley was awesome during 1998-2000, but for the prior 15 years, he had been midcard at best. Additionally, we can't realistically say he was just a notch below Rock/Austin/Hogan/etc.

Foley was behind Hart, HBK, Nash, Hall, Flair, Savage, Piper, Warrior, Angle, Andre, Steiner, Undertaker, Cena, Bryan, Jericho, Punk, Sting, and others.

He would be lucky to make the top 40 of the past 40 years.

he peaked in 1998-2000, when he became a comedic character with Mr Socko. However, you may be shortchanging his career before 1998. he wasn’t a straight midcarder in 1996-1997 (the years when he was the deranged Mankind, with Paul Bearer as a manager for a bit). He had some main events against Undertaker, Michaels, and others. In WCW, he was a strong upper midcarder as Cactus Jack

I don’t see how Scott Hall or Steiner could rank above Foley. The others I can see though

 

[Jets4Life]

he peaked in 1998-2000, when he became a comedic character with Mr Socko. However, you may be shortchanging his career before 1998. he wasn’t a straight midcarder in 1996-1997 though (the years when he was the deranged Mankind, with Paul Bearer as a manager for a bit). He had some main events against Undertaker, Michaels, and others. In WCW, he was a strong upper midcarder as Cactus Jack

I don’t see how Scott Hall or Steiner could rank above Foley. The others I can see though

Hall and Steiner definitely rank above Foley. Hall was a superstar by 1993, one of the top draws during the WWE New Generation era, was an integral member of the nWo, and helped lead WCW to wins for 83 weeks in a row. Sadly, his career began to falter with his drinking problems in 1998-99. Despite this, Hall was far above Foley. Hall was also a star in the AWA, winning the tag team titles with Hennig, while Foley was still an Indie wrestler. Hall was going to win the AWA Championship, but he saw the writing on the wall, and left the company while he could.

As for Scott Steiner, he was far bigger than Foley in his time in WCW (1989-95). Foley was not even close to Steiner. Steiner and Foley received their big breaks in 1998, while steiner would move up the card, until becoming a main event challenger for the last year of WCW, Foley clearly rose above him during the two years where Foley was a main event player. Unfortunately, 2 years is not a lot of time. Steiner was popular for over 20 years, returning to WWE in 2002, before departing to become a star in TNA until 2012.

I'm not sure how you can put Foley ahead of these two, considering for 90% of their careers, they were more popular than Foley, and also were household names by the early 90s. Let's face it, Cactus Jack was not as well known as Scott Steiner at any point during his WCW run. Steiner also outlasted Foley by 12 years.

 

[taker_2004]

Hall and Steiner definitely rank above Foley.

lol at Steiner being bigger than Foley. I like all of them, but Foley's bump off the cell is more iconic and remembered than Hall and Steiner's entire careers together. As much as the nWo elevated Hall to real draw status, there's a reason Hogan and Nash were politicking and trading the title while Scott was happy just to collect a paycheque and do a bunch of nose candy.

As for Steiner, I'm not sure how he's even in the conversation. Like, Lex Luger was bigger than he was in both WCW and WWE and neither of them would even be considered B-tier greats by most people.

 

[KingLobos]

Foley was champion and main evented with Austin, Rock and Triple H in their primes. Drew huge ratings. Main evented Wrestlemania. Lol at Scott Hall, Punk and Jericho being bigger.

 

[the_flock]

Hall and Steiner definitely rank above Foley. Hall was a superstar by 1993, one of the top draws during the WWE New Generation era, was an integral member of the nWo, and helped lead WCW to wins for 83 weeks in a row. Sadly, his career began to falter with his drinking problems in 1998-99. Despite this, Hall was far above Foley. Hall was also a star in the AWA, winning the tag team titles with Hennig, while Foley was still an Indie wrestler. Hall was going to win the AWA Championship, but he saw the writing on the wall, and left the company while he could.

As for Scott Steiner, he was far bigger than Foley in his time in WCW (1989-95). Foley was not even close to Steiner. Steiner and Foley received their big breaks in 1998, while steiner would move up the card, until becoming a main event challenger for the last year of WCW, Foley clearly rose above him during the two years where Foley was a main event player. Unfortunately, 2 years is not a lot of time. Steiner was popular for over 20 years, returning to WWE in 2002, before departing to become a star in TNA until 2012.

I'm not sure how you can put Foley ahead of these two, considering for 90% of their careers, they were more popular than Foley, and also were household names by the early 90s. Let's face it, Cactus Jack was not as well known as Scott Steiner at any point during his WCW run. Steiner also outlasted Foley by 12 years.

Foley had more bigger and iconic moments. More moments on top.

You're also downplaying his WCW run too. He had title shots against Vader, Ron Simmons, Sting whilst Steiner was still in the tag division.

 

[redban]

Foley was champion and main evented with Austin, Rock and Triple H in their primes. Drew huge ratings. Main evented Wrestlemania. Lol at Scott Hall, Punk and Jericho being bigger.

Jericho too was champion and main-evented with Austin, Rock and Triple H in their primes. Jericho from 1999-2001 was really over with the fans (I'm talking the phase where he used to mispronounce people's names and make jokes about Stephanie).

I admit that Foley at his peak in 1998-2000 was more popular than Jericho at his peak: in the past 30-40 years, only a handful of wrestlers have ever been as popular as Foley was in that stretch. Still, Jericho's longevity and in-ring talents give him a little edge over Foley imo. Jericho is a top 20-25 all-time wrestler - above Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Foley, and many others

 

[theshape31]

He made Orton, Edge, HHH, Undertaker, Austin, Rock, HBK, among others, into bigger stars than they were prior to working with him. He gave everything of himself to the business to a fault.

I’m honestly not sure how to rank him since he will never be seen as a great world champion. But his contributions to the business are far greater than most others. In terms of earning my respect, he’s among the greatest.

 

[KingLobos]

Jericho too was champion and main-evented with Austin, Rock and Triple H in their primes. Jericho from 1999-2001 was really over with the fans (I'm talking the phase where he used to mispronounce people's names and make jokes about Stephanie).

I admit that Foley at his peak in 1998-2000 was more popular than Jericho at his peak: in the past 30-40 years, only a handful of wrestlers have ever been as popular as Foley was in that stretch. Still, Jericho's longevity and in-ring talents give him a little edge over Foley imo. Jericho is a top 20-25 all-time wrestler - above Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Foley, and many others

Foley was a bigger draw than Jericho. He was an all time promo, multiple interesting characters, and was an attraction for his hardcore stunts. Worked with all the top guys. And like Rock, did not need dominant booking a la Triple H. Jericho has longevity and is a better in ring “worker”. But he has NOTHING else on Foley.

 

[KingLobos]

Foley is in the tier below the FOTC people. Like Savage. He has the resume, he has the classic matches. And he has a claim of being one of the biggest draws. Unlike the flippy cashiers of today who are boring and talk about how much they like being here. Foley perfected everything else that you need to make money. Exciting matches with psychology, terrific promos, three different kayfabe characters who were all over.

 

[Jets4Life]

Foley had more bigger and iconic moments. More moments on top.

That is your opinion. It does not make it accurate.

You're also downplaying his WCW run too. He had title shots against Vader, Ron Simmons, Sting whilst Steiner was still in the tag division.

Implying Foley was a bigger name than Steiner for thr first half of the 90s makes you lose credibility.

 

[Jets4Life]

lol at Steiner being bigger than Foley. I like all of them, but Foley's bump off the cell is more iconic and remembered than Hall and Steiner's entire careers together. As much as the nWo elevated Hall to real draw status, there's a reason Hogan and Nash were politicking and trading the title while Scott was happy just to collect a paycheque and do a bunch of nose candy.

Yes, Foley did a huge bump off the cell, and was one of the most popular wrsstlrrsvin the Eorld until uis retirement in 2000. That's 20 months. Compare that with Steiner being a top star for most of two decades, and being the only draw rhe WCW had for its final year.

As for Steiner, I'm not sure how he's even in the conversation. Like, Lex Luger was bigger than he was in both WCW and WWE and neither of them would even be considered B-tier greats by most people.

Steiner was bigger than Luger from mid 1998 onward. In fact, with the exception of 1998-2000, Luger was far ahead of Foley from 1987-1997. Foley had the greater peak, but Foley was not even in Lugers league for 10 years prior.

 

[Jets4Life]

Foley is in the tier below the FOTC people. Like Savage. He has the resume, he has the classic matches. And he has a claim of being one of the biggest draws. Unlike the flippy cashiers of today who are boring and talk about how much they like being here. Foley perfected everything else that you need to make money. Exciting matches with psychology, terrific promos, three different kayfabe characters who were all over.

Saying Foley was in Savage league just prove that you were not around until the Monday Night War. Saying Foley was an equal to Savage is a slap in the face to Savage, who was arguably the second biggest draw in North America, from his WWE debut in 85, until early 1990.

Savage went on to be a top star for the entire decade of the 90s. This is the problem with the forum. Most people were too young to remember the 80s boom, and only consider what happened from 1996 onward important. To hell with the 80s stars.

 

[KingLobos]

Saying Foley was in Savage league just prove that you were not around until the Monday Night War. Saying Foley was an equal to Savage is a slap in the face to Savage, who was arguably the second biggest draw in North America, from his WWE debut in 85, until early 1990.

Savage went on to be a top star for the entire decade of the 90s. This is the problem with the forum. Most people were too young to remember the 80s boom, and only consider what happened from 1996 onward important. To hell with the 80s stars.

The “entire decade” is not even remotely true. Also I didn’t say he was better than Savage. He’s not. But they are in the same tier. Champions who drew big money against the FOTC type guys. Main eventers. Top guys from their respective boom periods. Don’t be like Hogan and shit on Foley with nothing to back it up. It’s absurd. On the spectrum btw, Savage is closer to Rock and Austin while Foley is closer to Orton and Triple H. Take that as you will. The most outlandish thing in this thread was you claiming Scott Hall was higher. That has no basis in reality whatsoever. Halls shining moment is a ladder match with HBK for a midcard title. Foley was drawing millions with Rock and Austin for the main title. Get real. You can’t even say he’s better technically either. Foley had better matches, and is far superior in storytelling and promos. What is your argument??

 

[redban]

Steiner was bigger than Luger from mid 1998 onward. In fact, with the exception of 1998-2000, Luger was far ahead of Foley from 1987-1997. Foley had the greater peak, but Foley was not even in Lugers league for 10 years prior.

Foley’s 1998-2000 peak was so far ahead though

Luger is like a basketball player who averaged 20 points per game every season. Foley is like a basketball player who averaged 11-14 points per game every season except for 3 monster seasons (1998-2000) where he averaged 35 points per game. I think his peak value carries him over Luger, Steiner, Hall and others of that ilk