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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I keep hearing people saying he was, anyone watching back then knows that's not true.

Mr. Mcmahon, Stephanie Mcmahon and Kurt Angle were bigger heels than Triple H. compare his numbers with Rock/Austin with Kurt Angle's numbers with Rock/Austin on ppv.(don't say Backlash 2000 either, that's Mcmahon, when they knew it was gonna be just Triple H at Judgement day that shit drew way lower).

Shit he was gone and then came back a face to close out the attitude era.

Only time Triple H was absolute top heel was August-November 1999 and he shit the bed.

Do people say this because they saw Triple H during his reign of terror days or something?

Because I remember clearly when Kurt Angle was getting more heat as Eurocontinental champion than Triple H as WWF champion, unless if Triple H had Stephanie or Rock around.

Or when they booed Stephanie calling her a slut while cheering Triple H, or the fact that Kurt Angle got so much heat over Triple H they had to turn Triple H face.

Triple H was better off being a babyface, because he would be 3rd behind Rock and Austin, rather than 4th behind, Vince, Stephanie and Kurt.

Royal Rumble 2001 says it all when it comes to who was a bigger heel.
 

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Presentation says he was after Vince's peak in 98/99 but I never indicated it was because he was the one getting the most heat thoroughly throughout the cusp and introduction to the 21st century, He surely wasn't the Top heat magnet reactions wise.

I look at it as him being the most credible Top Heel in Presentation aka the primary guy the Top Babyfaces are opposed to in Top Storylines, But to me it's always been Vince you can't deny he's the overarching Heel no matter what is going on.

It's like this Vince=Palpatine, HHH=Vader in a sense.
 

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Because promoters barely wrestle. Everyone knows Vince was AE's biggest heel they just don't count him because end of the day he's not the one in the ring. He can't sell a match. Ditto for Steph.

The choices for biggest heel are Taker, Rock, HHH and Angle. HHH is the winner.
 

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You never replied to me in the other thread so I'll ask it here: how did HHH "shit the bed" during the summer and fall of 1999? The guy was getting big time heat from the crowds every week and the loudest "asshole" chants of any wrestler in the company.

Also by the time he left and came back, the attitude era was over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's like this Vince=Palpatine, HHH=Vader in a sense.
Nah, Stephanie and Angle were much bigger.

You never replied to me in the other thread so I'll ask it here: how did HHH "shit the bed" during the summer and fall of 1999? The guy was getting big time heat from the crowds every week and the loudest "asshole" chants of any wrestler in the company.
Ratings dipped for the WWF when he became top heel despite Rock and Austin being present.
 

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Ratings dipped for the WWF when he became top heel despite Rock and Austin being present.
They dipped from some incredible highs in the spring and summer of 1999, including the highest-rated Raw of all-time. They were of course also going up against Monday Night Football, which is always a factor.

Ratings during the following spring/summer were on par with the same period in 1999, perhaps a little better. And that is amazingly without Stone Cold. Certainly that wouldn't happen if HHH wasn't over with fans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
They dipped from some incredible highs in the spring and summer of 1999, including the highest-rated Raw of all-time. They were of course also going up against Monday Night Football, which is always a factor.
How young are you? Football had zero effect during that boom period, the WWF exploded in popularity during the 1998-1999 football season.

Ratings during the following spring/summer were on par with the same period in 1999, perhaps a little better. And that is amazingly without Stone Cold. Certainly that wouldn't happen if HHH wasn't over with fans.
That was due to Rock and Mcmahon. Triple H was third wheel behind Vince and Stephanie, even Shane got more heat at times with "Shane's a pussy!" chants and If I recall he did good numbers.

Then Kurt Angle surpassed him that Summer.

Triple H was never the #1 heel when Vince, Stephanie or Kurt Angle were top heels, he was behind them. I like Triple H but this is the truth, he wasn't that over.
 

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How young are you? Football had zero effect during that boom period, the WWF exploded in popularity during the 1998-1999 football season.
That's the only year in nearly 3 decades of Raw where ratings didn't at least take a small hit during football season. And a lot of that can be attributed to WCW viewers switching over to WWF. A quick look at the Monday Night Wars ratings makes that easy to understand, no matter what your age is.



That was due to Rock and Mcmahon. Triple H was third wheel behind Vince and Stephanie, even Shane got more heat at times with "Shane's a pussy!" chants and If I recall he did good numbers.

Then Kurt Angle surpassed him that Summer.

Triple H was never the #1 heel when Vince, Stephanie or Kurt Angle were top heels, he was behind them. I like Triple H but this is the truth, he wasn't that over.
It's fair to say The Rock was the biggest reason that spring/summer of 2000 had the most impressive ratings.

Vince and Stephanie weren't main eventing PPVs during that time period, so there's no way they can be the top heels over HHH. Kurt Angle blew up that summer but to say HHH wasn't that over is just crazy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That's the only year in nearly 3 decades of Raw where ratings didn't at least take a small hit during football season. And a lot of that can be attributed to WCW viewers switching over to WWF. A quick look at the Monday Night Wars ratings makes that easy to understand, no matter what your age is.
Yet if you do research during that time Nitro never decreased in their average ratings, the WWF was surpassing them with an explosion of NEW viewers, WCW lost their own audience around March 1999. only around 600,000-1 million would switch back and forth(like the January 4th show)

Vince and Stephanie weren't main eventing PPVs during that time period, so there's no way they can be the top heels over HHH. Kurt Angle blew up that summer but to say HHH wasn't that over is just crazy.
There you go, logic of someone who's only experienced it through home video and not live.

Who's in the match didn't matter, Triple H could face Rock 100x, but the story is Rock vs Mcmahon's.

Just because Triple H wrestled doesn't make him the top heel, that simply doesn't make sense nor is it the facts. Triple H was their lackey, Vince and Stephanie were top heels.
 

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It originates from how he was booked and presented. He did win the strap 4 times in less than a year after all. By May 2000, he had held the title as many times as The Rock and Austin, and had spent more days as champ than the former.

Between 1999 and 2000, PPVs Headlined, excluding Royal Rumbles:
Stone Cold: 12/26 (with injury)
Triple H: 16/26
The Rock: 16/26

Remember, you're asking where the perception comes from, not whether Triple H's booking accurately represented how much heat he actually had.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It originates from how he was booked and presented. He did win the strap 4 times in less than a year after all. By May 2000, he had held the title as many times as The Rock and Austin, and had spent more days as champ than the former.

Between 1999 and 2000, PPVs Headlined, excluding Royal Rumbles:
Stone Cold: 12/26 (with injury)
Triple H: 16/26
The Rock: 16/26

Remember, you're asking where the perception comes from, not whether Triple H's booking accurately represented how much heat he actually had.
True, this post is the answer.

I will not deny however that Triple H was the most dominantly booked wrestler of the Attitude era, dude never lost clean even over Rock and Austin.

But he wasn't anywhere near as over as Rock, Austin, Vince Mcmahon, Stephanie Mcmahon, and Kurt Angle.

They likely confuse booking for popularity.
 

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Yet if you do research during that time Nitro never decreased in their average ratings, the WWF was surpassing them with an explosion of NEW viewers, WCW lost their own audience around March 1999. only around 600,000-1 million would switch back and forth(like the January 4th show)
Nitro's ratings did dip from summer to fall of 1998. That's the whole reason I said that.

There you go, logic of someone who's only experienced it through home video and not live.

Who's in the match didn't matter, Triple H could face Rock 100x, but the story is Rock vs Mcmahon's.

Just because Triple H wrestled doesn't make him the top heel, that simply doesn't make sense nor is it the facts. Triple H was their lackey, Vince and Stephanie were top heels.
"Top heel" would generally imply wrestler. And to say that the story was not at least in part HHH vs Rock is doing a disservice to that feud. Hunter was more than just a lackey. You're acting like he was Corporate Kane.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
"Top heel" would generally imply wrestler
No, heel does not necessitate being a wrestler.

Bobby Heenan was one of the biggest heels of the 80's, he was retired and a manager.

Triple H was the wrestler of the heel faction, but that faction was led by Mcmahons and the top heel was Vince Mcmahon and Stephanie Mcmahon, later Kurt Angle gets added to list of top heels, Triple H was below them.
 

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Triple H was their lackey, Vince and Stephanie were top heels.
I know some will think this is derogatory towards HHH, but it is actually the truth. This is not to say he didn't grow in his position either.

LACKEY: According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the French word referred to a kind of foot soldier in the 15th century, prior to the word being taken into English. By the time we borrowed the word into English, it had another meaning: "footman." A footman in the 16th century was a servant who either attended a rider, or who ran alongside or in front of his master's or mistress's carriage.

From a storyline standpoint he does fit the word. HHH was even called out by HBK for being his lackey aka "kickstand". He went from HBK's lackey to DX leader who had enough of HBK that he kicked him out.

Then from there he wanted to break free of DX and Chyna in 1999. That didn't work out to well he latched onto the boss' daughter by basically raping her into marriage or so it originally seemed. Then he becomes champion and has the Mcmahon family in collusion to keep the strap away from Foley, Rock, and Big Show at WM 16.

From there on though HHH was a made man and super heel and I believe this is where he gets praise for being the GOAT WWF Champion heel (I mean being the first ever to walk out heel champ at Mania is a legend for that alone). Billy Graham may say otherwise though. There were some people who actually thought he would beat Taker at WM 17 because he became so dominant.

It originates from how he was booked and presented. He did win the strap 4 times in less than a year after all. By May 2000, he had held the title as many times as The Rock and Austin, and had spent more days as champ than the former.

Between 1999 and 2000, PPVs Headlined, excluding Royal Rumbles:
Stone Cold: 12/26 (with injury)
Triple H: 16/26
The Rock: 16/26

Remember, you're asking where the perception comes from, not whether Triple H's booking accurately represented how much heat he actually had.
Ties in perfectly with my post above. Being a lackey is also heeldom and tie that into what you are saying and it makes sense with the presentation.
 

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Easy he was the only heel then because Rock and Austin were so over as faces someone had to take that spot and they didn't have any really good or leit heels then other than maybe Kane.
 

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It originates from how he was booked and presented. He did win the strap 4 times in less than a year after all. By May 2000, he had held the title as many times as The Rock and Austin, and had spent more days as champ than the former.

Between 1999 and 2000, PPVs Headlined, excluding Royal Rumbles:
Stone Cold: 12/26 (with injury)
Triple H: 16/26
The Rock: 16/26

Remember, you're asking where the perception comes from, not whether Triple H's booking accurately represented how much heat he actually had.

This.
 

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They never really allowed Austin or Rock to ever really get the better of him. That's what still gives him this aura to this day.

Austin never got to pin his ass to the mat(outside of 1 fall at NWO when he eventually lost the match). HHH plotted have him run over and Austin still couldn't get a win out of it.

Rock beat him at Backlash after interference from Austin. He lost the belt back to him a whole one whopping month later

This is one of the biggest things I ever point to when I say that HHH received probably the strongest heel booking ever in the WWF/E. The fact that the two of the biggest babyfaces of all time couldn't even manage to get clean wins on him says it all
 

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They never really allowed Austin or Rock to ever really get the better of him. That's what still gives him this aura to this day.

Austin never got to pin his ass to the mat(outside of 1 fall at NWO when he eventually lost the match). HHH plotted have him run over and Austin still couldn't get a win out of it.

Rock beat him at Backlash after interference from Austin. He lost the belt back to him a whole one whopping month later

This is one of the biggest things I ever point to when I say that HHH received probably the strongest heel booking ever in the WWF/E. The fact that the two of the biggest babyfaces of all time couldn't even manage to get clean wins on him says it all
Business wise I get why this happened. Vince Mcmahon probably saw the writing on the wall with Rock and Austin long term. Add in the whole closeness to the family through Stephanie and the family was looking long term protecting him. In some ways it was the right business move.

In some ways it was a bad business move that started the misconception that even WWE had of HHH's true status and drawing power with fans. We saw the debacle years later with his dominant booking and boring reigns although his "Reign of Terror" run in 2002-3 I understood to get the newly formed title credible under him.
 

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From what great sources are you drawing this information? Triple H spent half the Attitude era as a mid card guy and a babyface. Anyone who says he's the top heel of that specific era (Mania 13 to 17?) doesn't know what they're talking about. I don't know about Angle, but certainly Rock and Vince both have stake to that claim.
 

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Kurt Angle was an amazing wrestler but I would never list him as a top heel. He was too funny and likeable, whereas HHH had very few redeeming character traits.
 
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