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Raven probably never reached his full potential due to misuse in WCW and WWE still many acknowledge his skill among the elite in wrestling.

Now that he's likely done in mainstream promotion, out of a top 100 wrestlers category where would fit in and how will he be remembered?
 
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Dude, I swear I was going to make a topic ranting about his treatment in WWE. Raven is a fucking genius and a brilliant promo guy but he looked like a street urchin and I'm sure that's why Vince canned him.
In ring, in a regular match I honestly can't vouch for him but I'm sure he's decent at least. He has the smarts to pick up on it I'm sure.
I think Raven in WWE if booked better would have been huge the cerebral assassin gimmick definitely would have fit him a lot better. Raven's psychology was flawless in WCW & ECW he was portrayed as a character that found weaknesses or created weaknesses and exploited them.
Raven easily cracks my list personally but I don't think its exactly mainstream. Raven is one of my favs ever. Raven's legacy is going to be tied to ECW, his stints in TNA may be remembered by some but if fans can't remember Samoa Joe or R-Truth were a TNA/NWA World Champion how can they remember Raven?
He may be overshadowed by the RVDs & the Sabus but Raven is clearly the best thing to come out of ECW.
 

· The One Who Knocks
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As a fascinating, articulate and brilliantly conceived character, he's easily top 10 all-time. As an actual wrestler? Not so much.

Much like with all the guys that had their best moments in ECW, it's hard to really figure out where to stick Raven in the bigger picture. I'd have to put a lot of thought into it, but I could see maybe having him in the top 50 (though when you get down to actually making the list that would probably be a stretch). He never got much respect in WCW and he was just badly used in WWE.
 

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Raven is one the most underrated wrestlers of all time. I always wondered what he could of and should been if booked right. I mean the flock=genius, quote the raven nevermore= genius, what about me=genius.

Even when he was over as a heel I always still liked him ever since I was like 12. DOes anybody remember that awesome drop toe hold onto the chair he used to do?

But anyway, I'd definately put him in the top ten best of all time.

He would be in the top three most underrated, misused of all time!!!!!
 

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One of the best minds in the business. Extremely underrated. Was never really used as well as he should have been everywhere but ECW.

He did have some great matches in WCW, though. Probably the best matches of his career were in WCW.

Loved the feud with Benoit and DDP. Loved the feud with Saturn. Loved the tag match with Saturn vs Benoit and Malenko.

His return to ECW was one of my favorite returns of all-time.

I think he'd be great as a booker. If I was running a promotion, I'd definitely hire him to be on my creative staff. He's got some great ideas.

He's a freaking Genius, literally. Got the high IQ and MENSA membership to back it up.
 

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I'd rank him in top 15 in terms of psychology and on the mic.

He also had some very good ECW and WCW matches. Who could forget the classic Raven's Rules matches.

He's so smart and such a good talker, I would really love to hear him on commentary one day.
 

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Probably one of the best character evolutions I have seen in the business. Along with excellent mic skills, classic matches from every promotion he's been in, and amazing psychology, Raven definitely deserves a lot of respect. He is one of my top performers, it's a shame that WWE really dropped the ball on him.
 

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I'm still pissed on WWE for not doing the Undertaker/Raven feud with Hell in a Cell blow-off at WrestleMania 19. Fuck you!
 

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I'd go as far as saying Raven is the most underrated and under used talent of all time.

He's easily a top 3 talker of all time, his mind for the business was second to none and he could go in the ring, he was rarely allowed to show it, as being an ECW guy the only thing he was allowed to do was hardcore matches.

Fact is, even when I was a young kid and he was heel I liked him. I don't think I've met anyone not on the internet who doesn't like him or liked him when they watched wrestling.

The guy in the grand scheme of things will likely be forgotten, which is a shame, as he deserved so much better.
 

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It all depends on what part of Raven you would be ranking, if you were meaning his mic skills and character then i would say Raven is one of the greatest ever but if you are talking about his wrestling skills then i could think of a lot of people who are much better than he is. Funnily enough i was watching The Rise and Fall of ECW yesterday as i had watched it for a long time and for everyone who actually says Raven was misused in ECW should remember that Raven chose to go to WCW and knew he would be a mid carder.

I wouldn't really say Raven was misused in WCW because his stable The Flock were brilliant and did get tv time but whereas other mid card wrestler's in WCW were used for their great in ring work like Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Dean Malenko and Rey Mysterio it wasn't the same for Raven because he was more of a character than a wrestler and needed main eventer tv time to have worked in WCW. I know that money wise it was obviously the best thing to do in going to WCW as ECW always had financial problems but as far as his character dominating at the top staying in ECW would have been better for his career and could have seen him become a monster heel.
 

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I only ever saw him in WWE when he wasn't really used much. Anyone got a vid of his good stuff in ECW/WCW?
 

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Top 50... maybe.
 

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He may be overshadowed by the RVDs & the Sabus but Raven is clearly the best thing to come out of ECW.
Umm...Jericho, Benoit, Eddie......

Unless you're only referring to guys who were in ECW for years rather than months, and were ECW main eventers. But despite short stays, Jericho, Benoit, and Eddie all came out of ECW and were better and more successful than Raven.
 

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Umm...Jericho, Benoit, Eddie......

Unless you're only referring to guys who were in ECW for years rather than months, and were ECW main eventers. But despite short stays, Jericho, Benoit, and Eddie all came out of ECW and were better and more successful than Raven.
Success is measured in a lot of different ways. None of those guys were ready that's why Raven was in the main event while those guys were mid carders in ECW. Besides guys like Guerrero, Jericho & Benoit (and Malenko) would be closely related with WWE because that's where the bulk of their stardom came from. As far as Paul Heyman was concerned losing Taz & Raven were terrible to his business. Losing Benoit etc sucked but he wasn't counting on those guys to draw ppv buyrates etc.
Raven main evented a pay per view (whenever Barely Legal was) none of those guys you mentioned were ppv main event level until at least 2000 and that was in WWE. If Raven had gotten a main event push in WCW he would have still been main eventing before any of those guys. You are right as far as long term is concerned because of what they turned into (and what Raven turned into) but in his prime Raven was THE man.
 

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As a character Raven was completely unique. He was an amazing part of the roster with a great style in and out of the ring. He was bascially the character Jeff is atm in TNA. However I couldn't see him as a main event star in WWE. I couldn't see him holding the WWE title and beeing the top guy in the company. He was always upper mid card at best.

Great guy, great talent, but WWE were never gonna push him to great heaights.
 

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Umm...Jericho, Benoit, Eddie......

Unless you're only referring to guys who were in ECW for years rather than months, and were ECW main eventers. But despite short stays, Jericho, Benoit, and Eddie all came out of ECW and were better and more successful than Raven.
More succesful yes, but better?

You can make a case for Jericho and Guerrero(probably two of the greatest characters in the history of the business) but Benoit really didn't have the character Raven has.

Fact is Raven was rarely allowed to work a proper wrestling match, as obviously higher ups so him simply as "yet another hardcore guy".

Raven is more intelligent than most people currently working in the business. He should be doing creative work in a big company, but Vince won't have him back, and frankly Dixie loves Russo too much.
 

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I feel like Raven gets a bad rep now, because of his age and thyroid condition... he can still put on a great match, albeit a slow and methodical one, but he has those spurts of adrenaline in them (look at his 2008-2010 indie matches, when given time, they're really good)... heck his matches from 2006-2008 in TNA on PPV were good too (when TNA stopped using him as a Main Eventer, and put him in crappy angles/feuds on Impact)... but his matches will tell a story if given enough time (see Dreamer/Raven at HardCORE Justice)...

Raven has always been a big proponent of in-ring storytelling and in-ring psychology ... Raven is a legend, a 3-dimensional character, and a masterful speaker on the mic... he's also very underrated, and he has influenced a lot of trends in wrestling, from his clothing attire to the way he carries himself in and out of the ring, to his video vignettes and backstage presence...

I've been a fan of Raven since the beginning... in fact, I've met the man on numerous occasions (shows, appearances, etc...)... dude is extremely nice and he cares a lot about his profession and the fans of wrestling (not just his)

He's been a company man his whole life, and true to his self (he has walked out on WCW when he was called out by Bischoff backstage in a company wide meeting... he wasn't happy there along with Y2J, Benoit, Big Show, Saturn, etc...), he could have easily gone to Law School with his criminology degree and with his high 142 Mensa IQ/Perfect SAT score/Straight A's in grade school, but he wanted to pursue his passion in wrestling, and do it for the rest of his life, and do it creatively and passionately... which is what we all strive for as people, to do something that makes us happy in life... and to his credit... he has succeeded, even when backstage politics kept him on the back burner frequently in many companies (WCW, WWE)... he never backstage politicked to stay at the top either, he always did what he was told to do... he's been there and done that for over 20 years (pre-Raven years included)... from Main Eventer (ECW 1995-1997) to High Midcarder/Main Eventer (WCW 1997-1999, ECW 1999-2000) to a Jobber/Misused (WWE 2000-2003) to a Main Eventer once again (TNA 2003-2006) to a Midcarder later in his career (TNA 2006-2008, 2009, 2010) ... and working the Indies and overseas along the way

And he's always done the indie circuit with dignity, and taught the young talent a thing or too (ask CM Punk, AJ Styles, Sonjay Dutt, etc...)... he's a creative person, with a lot to offer still in the business... in or out of the ring... I think he's earned that right to say when he's ready to hang it up and be through with it

But where he ranks among best of all time... I think he's one of the greatest minds in the business, definitely underrated, definitely top 100, definitely "The Doors" of professional wrestling, but he's a hardcore legend in his own right and he's done a lot of great things in his career
 
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