Wrestling Forum banner

Where did WCW & WWE go wrong with Goldberg

5K views 29 replies 23 participants last post by  GillbergReturns 
#1 ·
Goldberg was so hot when he won the WCW Title from Hulk Hogan in July 1998, that it seemed, he would rule WCW forever. But once he lost the title for Kevin Nash at Starrcade 98, and then the Hogan/Nash Fiasco at Nitro the following week, he never got his momentum back. In fact it would be the only time Goldberg was WCW Heavyweight Champion, the same number as Vince Russo & David Arquette.

So where did WCW go wrong? Should Goldberg have never lost at Starrcade? Should he have regained the title instead of the Hogan/Nash incident? Should he have won the WCW Title from Bret Hart at Starrcade 99 instead of leading to NWO 2000?

Then he comes to WWE the day after WM XIX, and never really got going. He had a way too long match with The Rock at Backlash, then feuded with Chris Jericho on his way to Summerslam and the Elimination Chamber where he got beat by HHH. He won the World title the month after but by then it was too late.

Was it too late by 2003 when WWE brought in Goldberg, or could they have done more with him?
 
#2 ·
You answered your own questions. They went wrong in WCW having him lose to nash. He wasn't the same after that to me. They went wrong in wwe having him lose to triple h, then win the title. Plus he wasn't going to be in wwe for long, so they couldn't fully invest in him IMO.
 
#3 ·
Honestly I think more than anything it was just that the gimmick was very one dimensional and had no longevity. He got big by squashing undercard workers, if you let him do that to your big stars you're killing their credibility, and if you dont you're killing HIS credibility. He was just never going to be able to lose or wrestle competitive matches without looking bad, theres not much of a shelf life for a guy like that.
 
#4 ·
This....

A streak is not a Gimmick. You give a guy a streak but eventually it has to end. If you allow him to keep the streak no one gets the rub.

I was fine with Goldberg losing to Nash... However Goldberg should have got the title back and defeated the NWO.

Goldberg problem in the WWE was simple. Goldberg wasn't committed and he never paid his dues. So he probably felt entitled from day 1.
 
#5 ·
Yeah thats the thing, I think you should look at it the other way and give bischoff or whoever else at wcw helped book him by taking such a simple gimmick and making it so fucking big in the first place and tbf his run did go on for a while so it wasnt like he was only hot for a few months or anything. The way I think they coulda squeezed more longetivity out of it in wcw is if they'd had him lose his streak clean, that way whoever beats him gets a huge huge rub and they can build up to a big rematch and then have a third and a 4th and an epic rivalry.

I wasnt watching WWF when he was in it but Im a bit of goldberg mark so Ive watched a load of his wwf stuff on youtube and i think all his ppv matches there and one thing I dont get - when people on here say Goldberg was booked like shit and even 'buried' in the wwf - all I see is the usual Goldberg looking like a monster and only losing in heavily dirty finishes. Where does all that stuff come from? Is it just the usual nonsense HHH hate?
 
#7 ·
Kevin Nash, the WCW booker at the time said The finger poke of doom was basically done for Goldberg to reclaim the title. Goldberg was going to go through every nWo member until the last guy was Nash before once again defeating Hogan for the belt.

But Goldberg got injured.. Derailing the whole angle. He then went and filmed the Univrssal Soldier movie taking more time off.

Then when he was to get the belt back again from Bret Hart he got injured again. I can't remember if it was the first injury or the second but one of them was because he stupidily punched the nWo's limos windscreen and he sliced into his veins.

I wont blame it all on Berg because WCW really did drop the ball with him when he was healthy, but maybe they were worried if they did put the belt on him he would get injured again. In their final days they did an angle where Russo had him fired after losing to Totally Buff. I have no idea why they would take their top act off tv so that was pretty stupid as well.

As for the WWE. I think they booked him ok for a guy who only had a year contract and then didn't re-sign. If he stayed another yesr hid title run might have been longer.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Kevin Nash, the WCW booker at the time said The finger poke of doom was basically done for Goldberg to reclaim the title. Goldberg was going to go through every nWo member until the last guy was Nash before once again defeating Hogan for the belt.

But Goldberg got injured.. Derailing the whole angle. He then went and filmed the Univrssal Soldier movie taking more time off.

Then when he was to get the belt back again from Bret Hart he got injured again. I can't remember if it was the first injury or the second but one of them was because he stupidily punched the nWo's limos windscreen and he sliced into his veins.
The car window thing was in 2000, and Nash is full of shit.

What happened was, instead of plowing through the nWo, Goldberg was wrestling Bam Bam Bigelow at SuperBrawl 9 instead of Nash or whatever the next nWo member was that he was supposed to be destroying on his way back to reclaiming the belt. Hogan was in a program with Flair, who was starting a comeback after feuding with Bischoff in '98.

Then, Hogan lost the title to Flair, who lost the title to DDP. Hogan got injured, but even before that injury, DDP was already winning the belt. None of this had anything to do with Goldberg.

Goldberg was around. He was wrestling a full schedule with top talent during that time, THEN he left to make Universal Soldier, but they pretty much killed or were half-assing that "Goldberg reclaims the title" program by the time he left.


I agree with other posters that there really wasn't much longevity in Goldberg's gimmick. The reasons why it didn't work out long term in WCW are pretty obvious. As far as the WWF, I actually thought Goldberg was doing a great job during his time there, but he was never going to be the top guy.

I'd say WWE got all that they really could out of him. He was a decent top face, got a world title run, and helped build HHH up for Benoit to ultimately beat him at WrestleMania.
 
#9 ·
Turning Goldberg heel in WCW was where they went wrong. The Kevin Nash thing was a bad idea but I don't think it killed the gimmick, the guy was still getting monster pops, although I think it would've been better if his first loss was to someone like Sting.

As far as the WWF goes, I honestly could tell right off the bat it wasn't going to work. The roster just did not seem big enough, WCW on the flip side had an endless supply of jobbers for Goldberg, which was a good thing, because the fans loved seeing these guys get destroyed. The WWF just wasn't built the same way, the character was just bound to not work there.
 
#10 ·
The Goldberg character could work anywhere. Problem is once the streak ends you don't have shit. Maybe you could turn it into a guy wanting to get his win back just like the UFC was booking Chuck Liddell.

Do some vintages of Goldberg brining in Freddie Roach, Lou Duva, and someone like Bruno Sammartino and have him go away to camp like Rocky did. But that would only work a few times.
 
#12 ·
In WCW, I firmly believe that Goldberg shouldn't have won the title until Starrcade '98. Despite the fact he didn't, it was still okay.

The problem came when they had him lose it 5 months later, with no revenge connected to that incident.


In WWF, the fact that Goldberg's appeal was the streak and/or destroying everybody. Add in the fact that 75% of his undefeated streak was him going over mid card/jobbers. WWF's roster was completely different than WCW's, as you just can't throw out dozens of talents to get squashed for the sake of getting a guy over (he was over enough) with nothing left to do outside of the original concept for a guy like Goldberg.


Had he not had an undefeated streak in WCW, his WWE run wouldn't be looked at as a failure. But, the streak set the bar too high and you're left deciding to go back in that direction or try something different, with the latter not reaching the set standard.


In other words, it wasn't much more WWE could or should have done with Goldberg that, compared to the streak, would make his WWE run less of a bust (although, I don't view it as a bust).
 
#16 ·
The streak got him to the top tier, so he was now on equal footing kayfabe wise with Hogan, Sting Macho, Luger and Nash. When he got there and the title was taken from him, he could now have big feuds with the big names. Just like any other top talent. Why did Flair in 1999 need another title run? Even Hogan was a broken down old man back then. His return to the red and yellow and defeating nash was quite unbelievable actually. Hogan continued to hold the belt and the spotlight. Goldberg even won some impromptu title match at Halloween Havoc which was overturned. Which then led to (C) Hart vs. Goldberg at Starrcade, which everyone wanted Goldberg to win.

From Haloween Hvaoc to Starrcade Berg was actually booked really well, with his feud against Sid and then his quick tag title run with Hart all leading to Starrcade where it all went wrong with an accident, and then Goldberg injured himself.
 
#17 ·
I can't say he was booked really well because nothing from late '99 erases how they fucked up with Goldberg from December '98 to him leaving to film a movie.

The streak ending when it did hurt him and all the potential he had. In this case, being massively over isn't enough. They had something that, IMO, had a 2 year life and they dropped it after 1, for the sake of putting the old guy back on top until he decided he wanted to leave again.

You don't do all of that with Goldberg and have him main event only 3 out of 9 PPV's following him losing the title, with 1 of those being impromptu and him losing in another.

The only thing that kept him strong as that he was so over. He wasn't booked as the star he was. '99 was good for what it was worth but there was so much more to get out of Goldberg and it became nearly impossible after Starrcade '98, simply because of the same ego that caused that was the same ego that pretty much made it a lock that he wasn't going to drop the title back to Goldberg, which is the only thing that could have made any of that actually be worth the bullshit.
 
#18 · (Edited)
him losing at Starcade wasnt a bad idea, the only bad idea wa losing to Nash who i believe was the booker at the time.

and like Rick James said, turing him heel didnt work, similar to when WWE tried turing Austin heel, there was plenty of big name talent and great up & comers that he could have worked with, but the company was already fucking up, and somebody shoulda put more of an emphasis on being safe in the ring, especially with the bigger talent

WWE fucked up by trying to make him mortal and have him actually work in the ring, it sure didnt help to build him up just to put over HHH as usual
 
#19 ·
WCW never went really wrong with him. Even in the later years (99-01) Goldberg was still a top guy and one of WCW's stars.

He should have won the title back in WCW though. I liked the idea of Goldberg tearing through the entire nWo before getting to Hollywood Hogan at Starrcade 99 and toppling him. 2000 leads in with a super hot baby face and you can do Bret/Goldberg, Goldberg/Jarrett, Goldberg/Steiner, Goldberg/Sid etc etc

WWE? Issue was everyone had seen it all before. Goldberg's gimmick is that he's an ass kicking machine but WWE had a ton of them at the time. Taker, Kane, Batista were all around at that time so Goldberg didn't stand out as much as he would have in WCW.
 
#20 ·
Once he lost to Nash he lost that thing that made him special. He lost that aura that made people get into him and then they just fucked up his character from that point onward. WWE the first thing they did with him having Goldust put the wig on him was the worst way to kick off his run with WWE. I never really saw issue with his whole WWE run until the Brock matched bombed at Mania XX. I guess we all just blame HHH because Goldberg was another guy who was given to HHH during the supposed "Reign Of Terror"
 
#21 ·
A few things they did wrong.

Having him win the title on nitro, when that should have main evented starrcade

Having him lose in a stupid manner. His first loss should have been a huge deal, in a ppv main event against a young guy they could really push, maybe booker t or steiner etc, just someone who would really benefit from it

When he lost, he should have been a guy who hardly ever loses, it's not hard, build it up, this guy has gone unbeaten for 6 months, a year, 18 months etc. When he does lose it's a huge deal and the guy who beats him gets a massive rub for it.
 
#26 ·
There wasn't anything wrong with Goldberg winning the title at Nitro. WCW didn't get anymoney from Starrcade it all went to Turner Home Movies. Everyone who cites this including Jim Ross doesn't understand WCW. It was owned by a TV company. There job was to pop ratings and not sell PPV's. WCW should have scrapped the PPV market and converted everything to Free TV like the Clash of the Champions.
 
#22 ·
I like what Bobby Heenan said in his book, written in 2002, he said "I'd still have Goldberg undefeated!" I know as a kid I stopped watching when Nash and Hogan did the finger poke. I remember when Goldberg lost I was so sad because one of my favorite memories as a kid is still Golberg winning that belt cause I thought it'd never happen. When Nash won I gave him the benefit of the doubt cause I wanted to see him beat up Hogan. Then it didn't happen and it sucked.
 
#23 ·
WCW went wrong with Goldberg by taking a guy who couldn't work, couldn't talk, and didn't give a shit about the business outside of the paychecks and strapping a rocket to his back. As others have noted, the streak was not a gimmick and a character like Goldberg has a very limited shelf life. He was over as hell for a while, but he didn't have the talent to remain a star once the streak ended, since that was the only reason he was over in the first place.

WWE went wrong with Goldberg by thinking that he could thrive in WWE's landscape, which was vastly different from WCW. WCW had a vast, VAST roster of lower card guys and jobbers that they could feed to Goldberg, and that, combined with his look, was enough to get him over. WWE was a completely different animal. The roster was smaller and a guy couldn't be billed as a main eventer if all he did was squash the same group of jobbers in 2 minute matches. In WWE, main event stars were actually expected to use their ring skills and mic skills to deliver good storylines and PPV-quality main event matches on a consistent basis, which Goldberg could not do. He really had nothing to offer them besides a decent look and a name that was big 5 years before they signed him. By the time he came to WWE, he wasn't really relevant anymore and he sure as hell hadn't improved in the ring at all.
 
#24 ·
Goldberg was a developmental wrestler with a rocket up his butt. Of course he was going to get exposed.

He was like a rookie pitcher coming into the league with 2 really good pitches no one has seen before- and tearing up year 1. Then by the time year 2 comes along everyone knows his stuff and he has a 6.29 era
 
#25 ·
WCW ended Goldberg's winning streak. He never really recovered from it as no-one had any real idea what to do next with him.

Then he comes to WWE and has an ok run until the Chamber match. WWE messed up there and all the momentum Goldberg had was lost. He stuck around as just another guy until the Lesnar storyline then he was gone.
 
#28 ·
As the previous post that pointed out that WCW could feed him an entire group of wrestlers without him ever touching the main event is what got him over, but when he went to the WWE Goldberg came with a lot of hype, but honestly the fans didn't want to see him run roughshod over main eventers that had won the Monday night wars. He accomplished a lot considering his limitations but much like Hogan, it was about booking and marketing, not talent.
 
#30 ·
With WWE it was poor timing. He debuts the day after WrestleMania 19 which was a commercial flop. There's no SCSA. Rock is 1 and done and back to Hollywood. You have the brand split slicing his competition in half. There wasn't much there for him. Goldberg v HHH. They make the colossal mistake of wanting to put Lesnar over him and that's the perfect ending to his underwhelming run.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top