[DesolationRow]

This is something of a canard that gets thrown around here way too often, and I agree with your point.

In the '80s, some of the most over heels were managers who didn't do their own fighting in the ring. Today, the most over heels are non-wrestlers.

It makes sense. Even the most despised heel wrestler will tend to be viewed with some sense of perhaps unconscious "respect" from the audience since he's still a gladiator. Even "chickenshit" heels still have to craftily get by and find a way to win and at least they're being confronted by the superhero babyface in the ring, something a Slick or Mr. Fuji or Michael Cole or Vickie Guerrero doesn't.

 

[Ryan]

Because they don't regularly get the shit kicked out of them by faces.

 

[radiatedrich]

I think the reason people like Cole get more heel heat is because they are non-wrestlers talking down to guys who ARE wrestlers, making them seem even more cowardly as they seldom back up their words.

 

[Validation Boy]

There are no real heels anymore. Shades of grey. Nowadays, people will cheer the wrestler, announcer, manager, valet, midget that they take the most seriously in any given scene. And rightfully so.

 

[Until May]

i dont see a problem with major heels being non-wrestlers, I mean i HATE cole heel or not but they play the part.

 

[Jerichaholic4life]

The thing is, is that some people think any heat is good heat.

I switch the channel the second Vicki Guerrero comes on, is that a good thing? No. A true heel will make you boo the crap out of him and still make you watch so you can watch his ass getting kicked. Michael Cole is another example, his ridiculous heel antics are actually distracting his ability to commentate and ruins the commentary itself in the process.

Nothing is wrong with non-wrestlers being more over than wrestlers but it's when the WWE ploy stupid tactics like "EXCUSE ME" to garner heat then it just makes me totally uninterested in wanting to continue watching the product.

 

[Bogey]

Vickie Guerrero and Michael Cole are genuinely annoying. There's no entertainment value from them so I think the heat for them is genuine.

The McMahons always got heat but they played their characters perfect and were fun to watch in small doses. I think most knowledgeable fans could separate Mr.McMahon from Vince McMahon. Stephanie had a bunch of other things going for her but it was always fun to see her get owned by Jericho.

 

[Adramelech]

This is something of a canard that gets thrown around here way too often, and I agree with your point.

In the '80s, some of the most over heels were managers who didn't do their own fighting in the ring. Today, the most over heels are non-wrestlers.

Exactly this. Also loving the "MICHAEL COLE GETS BAD HEAT" crowd, it's still real damn it. :lmao

People nowadays are just so used to "cool" villains. A true heel should not be appealing in any way. Freddie Blassie would make people so mad they got up and left the show and fans attacked him on the street.

 

[SarcasmoBlaster]

It works well if they use that heat to help get the actual wrestlers over, ala managers in the 80s. So far Cole and Vickie have failed to do that.

 

[Kratosx23]

The thing is, is that some people think any heat is good heat.

I switch the channel the second Vicki Guerrero comes on, is that a good thing? No.

Agreed. I can't stand it when people think her shitty acting is defenseable and that she's a great heel, or even a good one. She's a hack who's only on television because Vince is being nice to her and handing her a paycheck to support her kids since Eddie's dead. She has no business being on tv and it makes my blood boil when people have the nerve to suggest she's doing better than the likes of CM Punk and other guys who get heat based on how good their performance is and not how piss poor it is.

However, Mike Cole is utterly hilarious. I'm not gonna badmouth him.

 

[Demandred]

Vickie and Michael Cole don't get buried by nobodies on a weekly basis for no apparent reason. For some reason WWE decided to best way to get heels over was to make them look horrible and job them out to no names.

 

[Bogey]

It works well if they use that heat to help get the actual wrestlers over, ala managers in the 80s. So far Cole and Vickie have failed to do that.

Vickie Guerrero is annoying as hell but she managed to get Edge over with their faction in 07-08. He probably got more heat than if he would have been on his own at that time.

 

[777]

It works well if they use that heat to help get the actual wrestlers over, ala managers in the 80s. So far Cole and Vickie have failed to do that.

Seriously? I'm pretty sure that Ziggler went from a nobody to an IC champ to a heavyweight champ riding on Vickie's heat. Every time Cole calls Bryan a 'nerd', he's not really burying the guy cuz viewers are inclined to disagree with Cole cuz he's such an ass.
Just like the King used to be an ass for years. The things he used to say about the Hart Family were pretty awful. Was he burying Bret? Killing Stu's Legacy? Fuck no, everyone knew the 'BurgerKing' was full of shit. Just like Cole. The more Cole sucks the Miz's knob the more heat he gets. Cole is even giving a rub to Swagger now.
Both Vickie and Cole are characters I love to hate.

 

[Validation Boy]

Michael Cole is another example, his heel antics are actually distracting his ability to commentate and ruins the commentary itself in the process.

So sadly true. Cole is the all time greatest voice in wrestling broadcasting probably ever. I would prefer him to stay dedicated to maintaining such an important position.

 

[SarcasmoBlaster]

Seriously? I'm pretty sure that Ziggler went from a nobody to an IC champ to a heavyweight champ riding on Vickie's heat. Every time Cole calls Bryan a 'nerd', he's not really burying the guy cuz viewers are inclined to disagree with Cole cuz he's such an ass.
Just like the King used to be an ass for years. The things he used to say about the Hart Family were pretty awful. Was he burying Bret? Killing Stu's Legacy? Fuck no, everyone knew the 'BurgerKing' was full of shit. Just like Cole. The more Cole sucks the Miz's knob the more heat he gets. Cole is even giving a rub to Swagger now.
Both Vickie and Cole are characters I love to hate.

Bryan and Ziggler are barely over and not over at all respectively.

 

[jonoaries]

I made the statement that non-wrestlers being heels is bad for business. When discussing Jimmy Hart or Bobby Heenan understand they had stables and they were the heat magnets that helped their stable of wrestlers get over. Michael Cole has no stable, Vickie had Dolph but Dolph didn't benefit from the extra attention. He had 0 mic time, and was jobbed out repeatedly. He stood in the same ring with Cena for 15-20 minutes and did nothing (figuratively) while Cena and King made jokes about Vickie. Vickie is not the talent, Dolph was supposed to be but it didn't happen that way and Dolph looked like a damn fool.

There's no big payoff for non-wrestling heels even their comedic attempts at wrestling are not entertaining.

 

[acracker]

This is something of a canard that gets thrown around here way too often, and I agree with your point.

In the '80s, some of the most over heels were managers who didn't do their own fighting in the ring. Today, the most over heels are non-wrestlers.

but they were there to get heat by promoting the careers of the wrestlers they manage.

cole and vicky dont promote anything their shtick is getting themselves over first and foremost so you might as well replace the second man with Jersey Shore rejects for all the audiance care

 

[jonoaries]

Seriously? I'm pretty sure that Ziggler went from a nobody to an IC champ to a heavyweight champ riding on Vickie's heat. Every time Cole calls Bryan a 'nerd', he's not really burying the guy cuz viewers are inclined to disagree with Cole cuz he's such an ass.
Just like the King used to be an ass for years. The things he used to say about the Hart Family were pretty awful. Was he burying Bret? Killing Stu's Legacy? Fuck no, everyone knew the 'BurgerKing' was full of shit. Just like Cole. The more Cole sucks the Miz's knob the more heat he gets. Cole is even giving a rub to Swagger now.
Both Vickie and Cole are characters I love to hate.

Dolph is barely over. I can count on my fingers the minutes of mic time he's had since connecting with Vickie (even though its more than before) he's wrestled better opponents but jobbed to all the main event players it didn't do him any real favors.

Vickie and Cole are annoying and have waaaaaaaay too much television time and power. Vince as a heel helped get guys over by either opposing him or being a comrade of his. Some guys had the best runs of their career in The Corporation or The Corporate Ministry or as a "paid henchman" for McMahon.

Somebody told you the difference between Good heat and Bad heat let me break it down further:
Vince McMahon = Good Heat
Michael Cole = Bad Heat

Vickie Guerrero = Bad heat
Bobby Heenan = Good heat

 

[acracker]

So sadly true. Cole is the all time greatest voice in wrestling broadcasting probably ever. I would prefer him to stay dedicated to maintaining such an important position.

If you try introducing the product to a regular person they will most likely get annoyed and leave

. Every time Cole calls Bryan a 'nerd'

that doesnt even make any sense. Bryan is an athletiuc couragous tactician in a business that is no longer determined by biggest muscles or fastest fists.

If anything, while the stigma is still about, nowadays Nerds and Geeks actually have a power in society as "THE GUYS THAT FIX YOUR STUFF" because as much as the old farts of wrestling dont want to admit it, THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT REVOLVES AROUND TECHNOLOGY and even female celebs and movie makers are admitting that these people are now both socible and actually dateable

Unless...Vince tells him to do it to delibrately trying to dampen the morale of indy wrestlers and indy fans that would dare opppose WWE and or make the world hate them by randomly enforcing an out of date sterotype

Thing is you two, its 2011 now, the veil is lifted and wrestling is known for being low brow, so maybe its time for wrestling to come off more as professional and methodical and seemless. Cole simply isnt