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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
For example Undertaker/Jericho had a match on Smackdown this year and
If I remember correctly Edge entered the ring and speared Undertaker but Undertaker rose up before Jericho benefited from his interference.
Undertaker then got back up completely and Jericho then hit the code
breaker.Was that clean?

Did the heels during these matches win clean even though it wasn't a straight up wrestling exhibition but a gimmick match.(HHH/Foley Royal Rumble 2000, Taker/Brock No Mercy 2002)

Was HHH/Benjamin 1st match on Raw clean? HHH was too busy looking at
Benoit/Flair and Benjamin then got the upset victory.

Did Brock go over Rock clean at Summerslam? During the earlier parts
of the match Heyman was interfering but Brock pinned Rock without any
help or a foreign object.
 

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Just where a guy wins without any interferance in the slightest, including distractions via Pin or submission. Unless of course it's a gimmick match like Ladder or casket.
 

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Clean win = No interferrence , no cheating behind refs back , no rollup pin. Just straight hit finisher and pin 1 2 3. Thats clean
 

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Clean wins are simple. Win by submission or pinfall (but imo not a roll-up pin) with no outside interference, cheating, nor a "special anything" interfering.
 

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Interesting that some in this thread classify roll ups as unclean.
I've never really considered a roll up as a really clean win. It's almost always a counter to a move or a result of a wrestler getting distracted. The idea of a clean win is that one wrestler beats the other with no controversy. That's why I say finisher or submission hold be required, since it says one's moveset and "athletic skills" are greater than those of the other.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
In terms of big heel/face main event world title matches,Orton went over
Benoit pretty clean at Summerslam in 2004.
 

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I don't see why a roll up couldn't be clean. A surprise, sure, but still a clean win.

To me, a clean win is a victory within the confines of the rules. Say someone won a hardcore match with a chairshot, to me thats clean, because it's in the rules for the match. Interferences stop a finish from being clean, but only if they're involved in the actual decision in some way.
 

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I've never really considered a roll up as a really clean win. It's almost always a counter to a move or a result of a wrestler getting distracted. The idea of a clean win is that one wrestler beats the other with no controversy. That's why I say finisher or submission hold be required, since it says one's moveset and "athletic skills" are greater than those of the other.
I would say rollups are clean, provided there is no distraction. Take Hart/Piper and Hart/Austin for example. Hart was in the sleeper and Million Dollar Dream, respectively, and he just out-wrestled his opponents for the victory. Same with Michaels/Jericho, Hart/Perfect, and pretty much every Rey Mysterio victory.
 

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pretty much if you have to question whether it was a clean win or not, it wasn't a clean win


also newcomers, face or heel (ones WITHOUT a manager) usually win clean against no-name jobbers
 

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Nothing wrong with a rollup. Its wrestling. Its just outwrestling the other guy.

Now, would a win be clean if the other guy cheated and it backfired in his face? Like Savage vs Steamboat?
 

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I must away and tend to my ravens
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Nothing wrong with a rollup. Its wrestling. Its just outwrestling the other guy.

Now, would a win be clean if the other guy cheated and it backfired in his face? Like Savage vs Steamboat?
Case by case basis imo. For example, if the heel rips off the turnbuckle pad, charges the face and misses and loses as a result, that's ok as far as I'm concerned. If the face smash the heels face into the exposed steel, that would not.

And yeah, I'll echo everyone else comments about a roll up, that's a clean win.
 

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I would say rollups are clean, provided there is no distraction. Take Hart/Piper and Hart/Austin for example. Hart was in the sleeper and Million Dollar Dream, respectively, and he just out-wrestled his opponents for the victory. Same with Michaels/Jericho, Hart/Perfect, and pretty much every Rey Mysterio victory.
The fact that Mysterio always seems to win by rollup may be what makes rollups feel unclean to me. In a roll-up, 99% of the time they "almost kick out" of it, proving that for 3 seconds and no longer the wrestler was good enough to put the opponent on his back.

Contrast that with a submission: there can't really be any argument that a submission win can be considered unclean without any outside circumstances. Contrasted with a normal pinfall after a finisher: a wrestler's finishing move is enough to put another guy on his back for probably significantly longer than 5 seconds.

A rollup proves that a wrestler is just good enough to put someone else on his back for just barely a pinfall. A submission proves that a wrestler is capable of making the other quit, while a pin after a finisher proves that a wrestler is so good that the 1 (or 2, 3, etc if they have multiple known finishers) move that everyone knows they will try they're capable of hitting, and that they're capable of pinning an opponent, with some finishers notably having the recipient leaving on a stretcher.
 

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Celestial Messiah
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Different finishes put people over in a different way. A submission win, now thats big. You make someone tap, you own them. And sending a guy to the hospital is pretty big too.

As for a rollup, both guys come out looking pretty good. Like Flair vs Steamboat at the Chi Town Rumble
 

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A clean match is where there no distractions, no inference even if the ref see it or not and staying withing the rules of the match. Royal Rumble 2003 Kurt angle vs Benoit perfect example.

Since we are on this topic i find it that why cant WWE have heels win clean anymore its very rare now. Im only going by 1 v 1 matches. anyone agree
 
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