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The discussion threads are back....but I stopped w
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Vince was arguing that even though Hall and Nash weren't calling themselves Razor and Diesel, they were still using those same characters (especially Hall, who was still doing his Tony Montana act) in WCW, and that they were violating WWF's intellectual property by doing so. But Vince needed to establish that WWF could still actually use the Razor and Diesel characters without Hall and Nash playing them.
He obviously failed miserably with the fakes, but he had already succeeded in forcing WCW to drop the whole "WWF Invasion" part of the Outsiders angle earlier, so Vince wanted to see how much he could hurt Hall and Nash's momentum by hitting them with complaints over stealing intellectual property. Using the fakes was a step in that direction, but like I said, it failed miserably.
 
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Vince was arguing that even though Hall and Nash weren't calling themselves Razor and Diesel, they were still using those same characters (especially Hall, who was still doing his Tony Montana act) in WCW, and that they were violating WWF's intellectual property by doing so. But Vince needed to establish that WWF could still actually use the Razor and Diesel characters without Hall and Nash playing them.
He obviously failed miserably with the fakes, but he had already succeeded in forcing WCW to drop the whole "WWF Invasion" part of the Outsiders angle earlier, so Vince wanted to see how much he could hurt Hall and Nash's momentum by hitting them with complaints over stealing intellectual property. Using the fakes was a step in that direction, but like I said, it failed miserably.
This.

IIRC, WWF sued WCW over Hall being too much like Razor Ramon thus violating the rights to their character.

As noted, to do this there had to be such a character on WWF TV or there would be no leg to stand on legally.

Probably settled out of court, don't recall, but WCW/TBS threw away a ton of money at people just to make "problems" go away.
 

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I'll take you down the only road I've ever been do
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Well, if nothing else, it netted Scott Hall and Kevin Nash $400,000 more EACH because when WCW heard about fake Razor and Diesel, they actually thought Hall and Nash played them and were headed back to the WWF. So, WCW threw that much more money at EACH guy to ensure that they stayed with WCW.

:mj4

Embarrassing.

In the WWF's case, they were desperate as fuck and made absolute fools out of themselves, as well. I think Vince realized he shit the bed when he decided to not at least try to keep both guys, or at least one of them. That idiot thought they would stay for one of Vince's "opportunities" over guaranteed money.

:mj4

And people wonder why the WWF got their ass kicked in the ratings for so long? Couple this idiotic mindset, with the NWO, and Hogan turning heel and it's not a mystery. Old jackass got what he deserved.
 

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I think they were trying to pop a Nielsen with a "bait and switch" but it was awful. They should have probably tried it the night before at their PPV when they were not up against WCW programming and viewers would not have seen Nash and Hall on the other channel.

Fake Diesel outdrew Real Diesel
No, he didn't. Jacobs as another character might have drawn but Jacobs as Diesel was the drizzling shits.
 

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I thought the idea was to turn JR heel and have him manage them but once they discarded the idea of changing JR heel, they had nothing to do with fake Diesel and Razor.

I remember JR talking angrily about how McMahon fired him and how he'll bring back Diesel and Razor for weeks before they debuted. Once they debuted, JR turned face again and the storyline just died off.
 

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They were sending a message to the WCW that they owned the intellectual properties. It was pointless because it accomplished nothing on WWE's creative end, but it made Bischoff think that Hall and Nash were leaving WCW and returning to WWE and he gave them bigger contracts out of panic

lel
Both Hall and Nash signed contracts with WCW long before the fake Diesel/Razor debuted, and would not renegotiate their contracts until 1998.

WWE legitimately thought it was the characters were over, and were replaceable, which was a horrible move. Otherwise, they would have just mocked Hall and Nash in a similar way that they did with Hulk Hogan, Goldberg, and the Macho Man.

They should have known it would have backfired. There were historical precedents. Fritz Von Erich introduced "cousin" Lance Von Erich, and that also backfired, and drove fans away from his promotion.

This.

IIRC, WWF sued WCW over Hall being too much like Razor Ramon thus violating the rights to their character.

As noted, to do this there had to be such a character on WWF TV or there would be no leg to stand on legally.

Probably settled out of court, don't recall, but WCW/TBS threw away a ton of money at people just to make "problems" go away.
"The lawsuit went on for years, ending with a settlement in 2000. One of the terms gave WWE the right to bid on WCW's assets if the company was liquidated. As mentioned in the Sid slide, Time Warner cancelled WCW's television shows in March 2001 and sold the company assets to WWE."

source: WWE: The 5 Most Interesting Excerpts from WWE-Related Lawsuit Filings & Case Law
 

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The names and characters Razor Ramon and Diesel were property of the WWF. Hall and Nash went into WCW acting like their WWF characters and the WWF put up a stink...and more importantly lawsuits.

The NEW Diesel and Razor were created simply to show that they owned the rights to the characters and can choose anyone they want to play them. They knew as well as anyone that no one could play those characters like Hall and Nash, but they just wanted to remind everyone that wrestlers cannot go elsewhere and play their WWF characters without having permission or ownership of the trademarks, intellectual properties, etc.
 

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The names and characters Razor Ramon and Diesel were property of the WWF. Hall and Nash went into WCW acting like their WWF characters and the WWF put up a stink...and more importantly lawsuits.
The WWF would have lost that lawsuit, if AOL/Time Warner had not wanted to rid itself of wrestling, and settled. If Ted Turner was still involved in the direction of WCW, it's almost a given that he would never have settled with the WWF. There was evidence that Scott Hall developed his character in WCW as the "Diamond Stud" in the early 90s. At any rate, Nash and Hall deliberately toned down the personas from WWF, as a result of the lawsuit. It was a silly lawsuit, as even though WWE owned the rights to the "Razor Ramon" character, the name "Big Daddy Cool" and "Diesel" were not copyrighted (although the character was copyrighted). The premise of the lawsuit was that WWE claimed that WCW wanted fans to believe that wrestlers employed by WWF were "invading" WCW, while still working for WWF, and the company claimed that it hurt their reputation (which was ridiculous). Eric Bischoff responded by asking Hall and Nash point blank, if they worked for WWF or were under contract with the company, and they responded "No."

The NEW Diesel and Razor were created simply to show that they owned the rights to the characters and can choose anyone they want to play them. They knew as well as anyone that no one could play those characters like Hall and Nash, but they just wanted to remind everyone that wrestlers cannot go elsewhere and play their WWF characters without having permission or ownership of the trademarks, intellectual properties, etc.
I'm not so sure about that. There are cases of characters being played by different wrestlers. This happened when the original "Doink the Clown" was fired for outside work issues, and replaced with a man named Ray Licameli. I really believe that Vince McMahon thought that since the Razor Ramon and Diesel were his intellectual property, he could have two look-alikes pull it off.
 

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Just another instance in a long line where Vince believes that he's the only reason anyone is successful. Has nothing to do with the talent of the performers. It's why he thinks he can force a Roman Reigns to be the face of his company and everyone just has to deal with it. No matter how many times he is proven wrong, he still believes it's all about him
 

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The WWF would have lost that lawsuit, if AOL/Time Warner had not wanted to rid itself of wrestling, and settled. If Ted Turner was still involved in the direction of WCW, it's almost a given that he would never have settled with the WWF. There was evidence that Scott Hall developed his character in WCW as the "Diamond Stud" in the early 90s. At any rate, Nash and Hall deliberately toned down the personas from WWF, as a result of the lawsuit. It was a silly lawsuit, as even though WWE owned the rights to the "Razor Ramon" character, the name "Big Daddy Cool" and "Diesel" were not copyrighted (although the character was copyrighted). The premise of the lawsuit was that WWE claimed that WCW wanted fans to believe that wrestlers employed by WWF were "invading" WCW, while still working for WWF, and the company claimed that it hurt their reputation (which was ridiculous). Eric Bischoff responded by asking Hall and Nash point blank, if they worked for WWF or were under contract with the company, and they responded "No."



I'm not so sure about that. There are cases of characters being played by different wrestlers. This happened when the original "Doink the Clown" was fired for outside work issues, and replaced with a man named Ray Licameli. I really believe that Vince McMahon thought that since the Razor Ramon and Diesel were his intellectual property, he could have two look-alikes pull it off.
I'm pretty sure that is why they did it. If Hall and Nash were wrestling some small Indy (like the numerous Doinks) then they may have let that go, but I know I have heard from people exactly what he said. It was simply to prove intellectual property , it was the only reason they did it
 
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