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Discussion Starter #1

Seth Rollins has basically been feuding with Kevin Owens since November. And since Rollins has built his new heel faction with Buddy and AOP, KO has recruited guys like Joe, Big Show, and The Viking Raiders to help aid him in the fight.

It's been a feud that I've honestly enjoyed a lot. Rollins has been great in this new heel role. Guys like Buddy and AOP have been elevated. And this feud has done a great job in my eyes of just creating chaos. KO running up the LED Stage to do a Cannonball Dive is an example of that.

The thing is though, Seth's group has pretty much won every single match in this feud. And look, I'm not complaining about that. I think it's important to establish a new heel group so it feels like a big deal when they do lose. But I also have to ask the question, when does KO finally get his revenge? When does Seth finally get his comeuppance? For this story to be as good as it can be, eventually KO and company have to come out on top.

Then I remember we're in Mania season. And on one hand, it's hard to see this continuing for another 7 Raw shows at the pace it's been going. But on the other, we're too deep into Mania season in my opinion to really change course now. So, I do feel like this will go continue and possibly conclude at Mania. And I would have it on that show when KO and company finally get their win.

Only question is what shape does this match take? I mean this would be perfect for War Games, but they're not getting that at Mania. Honestly I would love if they got put inside Hell in a Cell or something to blow this off.

But that's my take. What do you think?
 

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Yeah the feud doesn't really have any stakes. No title on the line, nothing. I think this would have been better if say, Rollins were the heel champion and Owens had to work himself into getting a singles match with him at Mania. It would give some purpose to the whole thing. But as it stands it is just...there.
 

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Scarring the Night Sky
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I would like to see Kevin Owens and Samoa Joe win the Tag Team belts at Elimination Chamber and then proceed to defend them at WrestleMania against AoP and for Seth Rollins to start a feud with Aleister Black and for it to result in a one on one match at WrestleMania where Rollins puts Black over.
 

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FOTC
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Seth's booking is a big question mark but that isn't surprising because his heel turn (and stable) were not planned. They're sort of booking on the fly with him. He needs something bigger for WM than this feud. I like the idea of Owens and Joe taking the titles and defending at WM against the AOP. Murphy will probably have to be relegated to some type of multi-man match on the pre show. As for Rollins they need to capitalize on his moniker, "The Monday Night Messiah." He should represent Monday Night RAW against a top star from Friday Night Smackdown: Daniel Bryan.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah the feud doesn't really have any stakes. No title on the line, nothing. I think this would have been better if say, Rollins were the heel champion and Owens had to work himself into getting a singles match with him at Mania. It would give some purpose to the whole thing. But as it stands it is just...there.
I don’t really think this is a feud that needs a title on the line. Seth got turned to the dark side , he and Owens clashed over their differences in personality, Rollins got AOP and Buddy by his side through different circumstances and guys like Joe and the Raiders got caught in the cross fire and are fighting with KO for survival.

Those are the things on the line. Survival, pride, dominance. You need strong non title feuds like this to help carry the show. And this feud is a great example of this, IMO.

Seth's booking is a big question mark but that isn't surprising because his heel turn (and stable) were not planned. They're sort of booking on the fly with him. He needs something bigger for WM than this feud. I like the idea of Owens and Joe taking the titles and defending at WM against the AOP. Murphy will probably have to be relegated to some type of multi-man match on the pre show. As for Rollins they need to capitalize on his moniker, "The Monday Night Messiah." He should represent Monday Night RAW against a top star from Friday Night Smackdown: Daniel Bryan.
I don’t like the idea of Seth dropping a feud he’s been in for 3 months that’s had the crowd reacting really well just to have a feud with a SD guy with probably just a few weeks of build, personally.

They’ve put a lot of time in this feud, go all the way with it.
 

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The Babyface of WF
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Honestly even I'm a bit torn on this angle whether I see a good payoff in sight or not.

Seth having the upper hand this far in requires KO to definitely need to turn the tide rather sooner it's hollow to see a Babyface get demolished and set back week after week only to win one solitary match in the end I want KO and Seth to balance out this feud a little bit more with Rollins remaining in the driver's seat just not with KO getting run over and looking like a failure the WHOLE time.

I'd say their match should be at EC since WM is a bit of a stretch with a story that isn't captivating people enough at this stage I'll let it phase on its own.
 

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I think they will be feuding for the tag team titles at WM and then Rollins will enter the WWE title picture.

In hindsight Owens feuding with Shane in the summer and Seth dropping the title were not the good ideas the company thought it would be, Owens character peaked in his feud with Shane and there is nothing for him at WM 36 as big as feuding with a McMahon Family member, and Seth Messiah character is more appropiate for a dilusional world champion.

Seth feud with The Fiend was a fiasco and Brock ending KofiMania in 7 seconds another fiasco.

The Fiend should have ended KofiMania, it was the perfect contrast between opposite characters. All Lesnar did with the WWE championhship was a 3 minutes match with Cain Velasquez, his storyline with Rey Mysterio which was about Dominic and not the title, dissapear and then enter the Rumble like he was no holding any title, if they wanted to do Lesnar-McIntyre they could easily do the same thing at the Rumble match, the WWE championhsip was not needed.

Rollins should've retained against Lesnar and then become a dilusional champion, confirming his heel turn at Survivor Series, The Messiah character and his storyline with Owens would have had more emotional value if it had culminated in a titular match at WM 36.
 

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Owens wins the feud (without winning the worthless tag titles) and goes to WrestleMania and gets a high profile match while Rollins is left off the card.

In reality, Owens will probably be having a midcard title match and Rollins will be facing Undertaker or some shit.

When does Seth finally get his comeuppance?
Never.

For this story to be as good as it can be, eventually KO and company have to come out on top.
They don't have to, that's not how WWE works. Dean Ambrose never got his revenge on Seth Rollins, they feuded for months and Seth won constantly. When you're Vinces favourite, you make the babyfaces look stupid and that's the end of it.
 

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great post @The_Workout_Buddy

This rollins feud with KO has dragged on so much now that I roll my eyes every monday when they come on.
Someone should add up the collective minutes this feud has absorbed on Raw since November. I'm sure it'd be shocking.

They continuously do these same matches with the same guys +/- a few additions like Big show here and there.

It needs some kick to it... i like groups, I love KO, I love Samoa Joe, but nothing is going on here.

I guess I'd have this feud start to come to a conclusion by EC, and for WM I'd consider doing something like Rollins vs. Aleister Black (maybe KO enlists the help of black a long the way or something) while KO/Joe maybe take the tag titles at EC and fight AOP/others at WM for them?
I really don't know.. it's a bit of a damn shame as KO should really be a star.
 

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Seths and Co endgame should be to have all titles -Seth as world champ , murphy as IC champ and aop as tag champs .

KOs end game is to stop Seth and co so that he and joe could pursue the main titles and Viking riders to take the tag titles from Seth and co
 

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Maybe leading to Owens vs Rollins at WM so that Rollins call himself the "Prized Fight Slayer"?

Does Seth's stable even have a name?
 

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It's a very very very very very B- feud right now. It's not terrible and it's not great at all. It's one of those....what are we doing here? A stable needs a purpose and/or an identity or purpose or REALLY intriguing characters. We don't really have any of that.

Lets take the Inner Circle as an example of a stable that works. It's pretty similar to Rollins' group. Rollins = Jericho...as the top heel leader. AOP = Santana/Ortiz...as the young tag team/muscle. Murphy = Sammy...as the young guy to eat finishers and build slowly as a character.

What's the biggest difference? Well, i think there's a few things. First, Jericho is champ, so it makes the stable credible. Secondly, also, we've seen clips of them partying it up 4 horseman style. You see that if you run with Jericho, you get special treatment. And finally, Jericho's one of the best talkers of all time.

Rollins group is just a hodge podge and they're mostly hurt cause Rollins cant go after the title cause of a guy called Lesnar.

Also, Owens is great but Samoa Joe is a loser (kayfabe) and Vikings raiders fucking suck
 

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They really need Rollins & Buddy to drop the titles so Rollins can feud with McIntyre after mania. This is what I would have set up

Build up to Mania
Joe v Murphy (Murphy goes over)
Seth v KO (AOP/Murphy come out to cost KO but are banned from ringside, Joe then comes out and turns on KO but doesn't join Seth)

Money in the Bank
Seth v Mcintyre for the title (McIntyre goes over)
Joe v KO after mania (Joe goes over)

Summerslam
Joe v McIntyre for the title (Joe goes over)
KO v Murphy (KO goes over)
Seth v Black (Black goes over thanks to Buddy's help)

Survivor Series
Joe v Black v McIntyre for the title (McIntyre goes over)
Seth v Murphy ( Seth goes over)
KO v Adam Cole w/ Undisputed Era (Cole goes over)
 

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In a perfect company, at this point it should lead to a match at Mania with some stipulations and Kevin winning in the end.

But in reality, I don't think Seth Rollins will even get his comeuppance. That's not how Vince looks at things. To me, it looks like the intention here is not to push KO, but to just have Seth waste some time before he could enter the main event picture again, which probably will happen after Mania (either Drew wins the title and Seth feuds with him, WWE could promote this feud as a war between both guys who beat Lesnar, or maybe Seth is drafted to SD to feud with Roman). Look, they're definitely building this faction for Seth to cheat in main event angles again, like he did before, in 2014. It's the same story, Dean Ambrose was beaten every single time back then. So they are probably doing something similiar. I could even see them turning Joe heel and possibly feuding with Owens after Mania (or even before). There will be no reasonable explanation, as usual. But they'll use the turn to justify Seth winning the blow-off.

PS - yeah, by the way, that tag team title win really was pointless and stupid, looking back. People were saying there's a reason, well... there wasn't. KO and Joe lost a tag title match, and AOP are still not beating the shit out of Rollins because they should've got this shot way before him and Murphy. So...eventually looks like they did it so Seth would become some tag team specialist by the end of his career, lol.
 

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The Babyface of WF
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In a perfect company, at this point it should lead to a match at Mania with some stipulations and Kevin winning in the end.

But in reality, I don't think Seth Rollins will even get his comeuppance. That's not how Vince looks at things. To me, it looks like the intention here is not to push KO, but to just have Seth waste some time before he could enter the main event picture again, which probably will happen after Mania (either Drew wins the title and Seth feuds with him, WWE could promote this feud as a war between both guys who beat Lesnar, or maybe Seth is drafted to SD to feud with Roman). Look, they're definitely building this faction for Seth to cheat in main event angles again, like he did before, in 2014. It's the same story, Dean Ambrose was beaten every single time back then. So they are probably doing something similiar. I could even see them turning Joe heel and possibly feuding with Owens after Mania (or even before). There will be no reasonable explanation, as usual. But they'll use the turn to justify Seth winning the blow-off.

PS - yeah, by the way, that tag team title win really was pointless and stupid, looking back. People were saying there's a reason, well... there wasn't. KO and Joe lost a tag title match, and AOP are still not beating the shit out of Rollins because they should've got this shot way before him and Murphy. So...eventually looks like they did it so Seth would become some tag team specialist by the end of his career, lol.
Yep that's kinda how it's already played out unfortunately, Just look at KO's track record he never really wins anything important.

Started off with an impressive win over Cena in 2015 only to come out looking like another Jobber of the month, Fed to Goldberg unceremoniously during his Universal Title reign, Started off strong against Shane McMahon only to play filler Villain in the end with Sami, Was overlooked for Ziggler and demoted against Kofi's reign of terror, He did get the better of Shane during part 2 of their long running feud but that didn't do him justice anyway, Now he's on the receiving end right now against Rollins.

If he doesn't get the last laugh or even an important win over Seth by the time this feud closes altogether then that's KO for the remainder of his career.

KO getting his moment that doesn't involve making someone else look better or to set up another storyline that places him as the supporting player seems unlikely.
 

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Seth and Murphy should drop the titles to either Viking Raiders or KO/Joe so the AOP can insert themselves into that picture instead.

And then Seth can feud with Aleister Black, it wouldn't be too difficult to start a program branching out from the current feud.
 

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Yep that's kinda how it's already played out unfortunately, Just look at KO's track record he never really wins anything important.

Started off with an impressive win over Cena in 2015 only to come out looking like another Jobber of the month, Fed to Goldberg unceremoniously during his Universal Title reign, Started off strong against Shane McMahon only to play filler Villain in the end with Sami, Was overlooked for Ziggler and demoted against Kofi's reign of terror, He did get the better of Shane during part 2 of their long running feud but that didn't do him justice anyway, Now he's on the receiving end right now against Rollins.

If he doesn't get the last laugh or even an important win over Seth by the time this feud closes altogether then that's KO for the remainder of his career.

KO getting his moment that doesn't involve making someone else look better or to set up another storyline that places him as the supporting player seems unlikely.
KO's career is a mess, no doubt, but ultimately he's fine, honestly. He's over as hell, he's been champion. Joe and Sami, and some other talents have it way worse. But yes, they totally screwed KO's momentum after the Shane feud.

I agree, it's still a tragedy when someone receives a goddamn standing ovation, and the next week is jobbed out to a filler faction with no purpose, again. I mean, who are these guys really? AOP are a tag team. Murphy is never gonna get pushed. Seth will never be taking seriously as main-eventer. These guys are nothing special. I kinda like Murphy, but he's not gonna achieve anything in this group. As soon as Vince gets tired of him, he'll just have Rollins betray him and then win a PPV match, that'd be it. I guess it's good TV exposure for now, but I can't see them pushing Murphy beyond that. He certainly ain't gonna beat Seth when they feud eventually.

Joe also definitely deserve a lot better. They always screwed Joe, every single time. Yes, he was injured a lot, and I don't want to hear that excuse, because when they gave him a shot - he knocked it out of the park, and they just refused to put the belt on him.

And then Seth can feud with Aleister Black, it wouldn't be too difficult to start a program branching out from the current feud.
Or, you know, instead Black could feud with someone who'll actually put him over.
 

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Personally I've not really been that interested in this feud. I've not really been a huge fan of Owens apart from when he first debuted and the crowds were chanting "Fight Owens Fight". From what I have saw on youtube, it seems that Rollins seems to keep getting the better of Owens? Which I suppose means that Owens will be due his win over Rollins and then they will go there separate ways.

However, if Drews winning the WWE Championship at Mania making the champion a face, would that mean Rollins is his first opponent after Lesnar? If so, it could mean Rolllins goes over Owens. Either way, the quicker they end this feud the better to be honest and the quicker the turn Owens heel again and get him away from trying to pretend he's the next Austin the better for everyone.
 

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Or, you know, instead Black could feud with someone who'll actually put him over.
Which other main roster heel is there then to put him over in a match that actually matters?
 
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