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Discussion Starter #1
A lot of people on here go on about how various high flying wrestlers are "spot monkies". I don't get it. Sure, they wrestle a full technical masterpiece but I find "Spotfests" as entertaining. That is their role as a wrestler to do flips and jump of stuff. Eg. If Danielson was never " one of the worlds best" technical wrestlers he is and instead was a high flying Mysterio-esque wrestler, would people still wank over him everytime he wrestles? Didn't think so. My point is that, using a high flying offense is as equally entertaining as someone using technical mat skills IMO. They should not be instantly put down just cause their wrestling style is different.
 

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Because random flippy shit doesn't get fans emotionally involved in a match. I don't think of a wrestler as a spot monkey just cause they're a high flier though. Sabu is one of my favorites and I don't think of his matches with RVD as just random spot fests. But MCMG vs Gen Me pretty much is just random flip after random dive after random flip. Those are fun to watch too but they just don't bring in the big bucks. At least not in the states.
 

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If it's not a main event - Nothing. Pro wrestling needs them btw. They are fun to watch and some people LOVE them, so it's certainly an attraction.
 

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A lot of people on here go on about how various high flying wrestlers are "spot monkies". I don't get it. Sure, they wrestle a full technical masterpiece but I find "Spotfests" as entertaining. That is their role as a wrestler to do flips and jump of stuff. Eg. If Danielson was never " one of the worlds best" technical wrestlers he is and instead was a high flying Mysterio-esque wrestler, would people still wank over him everytime he wrestles? Didn't think so. My point is that, using a high flying offense is as equally entertaining as someone using technical mat skills IMO. They should not be instantly put down just cause their wrestling style is different.
The fundamental thing I beleive driving this newly found hatred of high-flyers is essentially how high-flyers generally supercede the dogma of needing personality/charisma/mic skill to get over and have their flippies get them over to an extent on their own. Its actually stupid because why a guy is over is a trivial detail and only important to the extent in determining how far he and the promotion can advance his character before it pleateaus.

Because random flippy shit doesn't get fans emotionally involved in a match.
In fairness, almost nothing that can happen in a match can get fans emotionally involved without the fans having an idea on how the match, before and after, may have a bearing in either the larger canon or on the competitors themselves; this of course doesn't happen when most high flyers have little bearing on the larger canon, character wise.
 

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The spot monkey thing is bullshit, 10 years ago it didn't exist, it was just called guys doing awesome shit. 90% of matches don't have the time and quality buildup to establish a serious emotional investment in the match, nor do they have the horses to pull it off a lot of times. There is a fine line between 'in ring storytelling' and boring fakery. If it's not HBK / taker (or in TNA's case angle vs aderson I thought was well done this year) then at least you can hang your hat on the fact that spot monkeys will do some visually impressive stuff, that the average guy can't, which might even have an element of danger or risk to it. At least that makes it easier to suspend disbelief, than watching someone 'work the leg' to set up some shitty half boston crab or something.
 

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Using Mysterio as an example of a spot monkey in the OP instantly shot apart any credibility to do with this. Rey Mysterio is NOT a spot monkey. A spot monkey is someone who uses no real psychology in their matches and just does random "exciting" stuff for the point of it. A perfect example would be Amazing Red or Kurt Angle when he tries to go out and put on an "amazing" match.

What's wrong with them? They make wrestling look ridiculous. When I watch wrestling, I want to be engrossed and believe what I'm watching is real, because that's when it's at its most exciting. How am I supposed to believe something is real when Brian Kendrick has done his best to put logic into a match by working Amazing Red's leg for minutes, with Red selling it until he suddenly decides to go up to the top rope and do a superdupercorkscrewwhateverthefuck, then pop back up so the crowd can cheer him? Yes, this is a real example from Genesis 2010.

Not every match has to have layers of emotion. It just has to at least resemble something that is real.
 

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A good wrestling match with actual psychology and selling is like a good film. It's like watching The Godfather or something, sure it's slow, but it can capture you and tell an amazing story. Truly a masterpiece. A spotfest? Is more comparable to a movie like that clusterfuck Die Hard 4 cheap thrills, totally unbelievable and you really don't give a damn about any of the characters.

BTW Mysterio isn't a spot monkey. He is/was one of the best in-ring talents ever. A lot of the cruiserweights in WCW grasped psychology, it's the guys that watched them and burst onto the scene in the early 2000's that are spot monkeys. Just a bunch of flips and high risk moves with little selling. It's so fucking unbelievable that it's pathetic. Watching a guy do some crazy dive outside, miss and get back in the ring 5 seconds later completely fine makes wrestling look more fake than a David Otunga match or a John Cena comeback.
 

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Personally, I feel like the best thing any wrestler can learn how to do is sell. If I can believe you are taking a beating or I feel sorry for you that you are getting beaten up, then that adds so much more to your match than any fancy move could. And if you're a heel, you have to be able to feed the babyface when he comes back. It is a very important tool to have.

Bret & Shawn get credit for being the two best workers of the 90s, and to be perfectly honest, selling is what they were both best at. They knew how to take a beating and make it mean something and it added so much to their matches.

Offense is overrated. You can have all the fanciest moves in the world, but if I don't care that you are taking a beating, then your match likes meaning.

Alot of the spot monkey types fall into that trap. A perfect example would be Jarrelle Clark. All that guy could do was do his spots. The 630 was amazing, sure. But can anybody name a Clark match that they gave a shit about when it was over?
 

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It's weird that someone with a Sabu avatar would make this thread.:hmm:

I look watching the odd spot fest or two ,given their right place on a card they can be very enteraining ,like how a lot of Tna ppvs used to open with a multiple x division. It did it's job ,it wouldn't last long but would get the crowd pumped.As a main event a spot fest just doesn't cut it ,you can however get the best of both worlds ,like and Angle/AJ match .They are the perfect combo of smooth technical wrestling with some great spots .Spot fests do lack emotion though ,this is what really makes a great match.
 

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Using Mysterio as an example of a spot monkey in the OP instantly shot apart any credibility to do with this. Rey Mysterio is NOT a spot monkey. A spot monkey is someone who uses no real psychology in their matches and just does random "exciting" stuff for the point of it. A perfect example would be Amazing Red or Kurt Angle when he tries to go out and put on an "amazing" match.

What's wrong with them? They make wrestling look ridiculous. When I watch wrestling, I want to be engrossed and believe what I'm watching is real, because that's when it's at its most exciting. How am I supposed to believe something is real when Brian Kendrick has done his best to put logic into a match by working Amazing Red's leg for minutes, with Red selling it until he suddenly decides to go up to the top rope and do a superdupercorkscrewwhateverthefuck, then pop back up so the crowd can cheer him? Yes, this is a real example from Genesis 2010.

Not every match has to have layers of emotion. It just has to at least resemble something that is real.
That's somewhat of a weak argument in regards to Red because a lot of wrestlers on TV don't exactly sell all that well compared to guys like Bryan or Taker, most of them aside from Cena just don't get as much **** about it because they aren't highflyers. Honestly, there really aren't any guys on TV who are horribly spotty to the point that their general in-ring performance is a geniune turnoff in of itself. Red could be argued to be overated thanks to his impressive flippies, but the guy can work in regards to most of the other green talent on TV.
 

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That's somewhat of a weak argument in regards to Red because a lot of wrestlers on TV don't exactly sell all that well compared to guys like Bryan or Taker, most of them aside from Cena just don't get as much **** about it because they aren't highflyers. Honestly, there really aren't any guys on TV who are horribly spotty to the point that their general in-ring performance is a geniune turnoff in of itself. Red could be argued to be overated thanks to his impressive flippies, but the guy can work in regards to most of the other green talent on TV.
It completely ruined the continuity of the match, so I don't see how it's a weak argument. You can't pick and choose when to sell. Saying a lot of people do it doesn't really justify it ruining a match either - it just points out that a lot of people are crappy wrestlers. Red is just a prime example of a guy who is fucking awful in the ring.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I reckon it's up to wrestling fans their own tastes. I loved MCMG v Gen Me at Bound for Glory and slightly less at Final Resolution but people here were complaining about them being spot fests. Whatever. Id consider myself more of a marky fan, I don't analyze every match to see who did what wrong and how they performed and rate them and such. I just cheer for people who I genuinely want to win, although the smark in me comes out with Sting, Team 3D and a few others.

Anyway, the style of wrestler shouldn't really affect the outlook everyone has on him IMO but I'm mostly a mark when I watch wrestling unlike guys here who over analyze everything until they can't watch any non technical under 4 star match without complaining about it. Fine if you do but that's not why I watch wrestling.

Btw Sabu pretty much sucks now, ill admit but I'm still not changing the pic.
 

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I have no problem with "spot monkeys". Someone made a movie reference earlier, to me a spotty wrestler works like an action movie or a comedy, they are fun can draw in the casual person and are generally easy to watch. You can have good action and comedies like Die Hard just like you can have good 'Spot' matches like Aj v Daniels v Joe (Im pretty sure i might get a bit of heat for this... its still one of my fave matches though). Action Movies wont win an Oscar. 'Spot' matches wont be high on the card. There are however a few exceptions.

However, IMO the most entertaining matches are 'Spotty' with phycology thrown in. Selling, logical reversals, steady build.
 

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Because it's not believable in any way, I cant get emotionally invested in a match if i can't blatently see the wrestlers setting up spots and doing things that make no sense
 

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Nothing is wrong with spot monkeys, they can be entertaining, like the MCMG/GenMe Ultimate X match. However, I have an issue with people who keep bringing guys like that up as "great wrestlers", trying to prove TNA has better wrestlers than the WWE. I'll take a Sheamus or Swagger match over a Red match any day of the week.
 

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Actually one of my favorite X Division matches,was pretty slow paced for the most part and didn't start to hit a series of spots until like 11 minutes after the match started, and even then, it wasn't just a bunch of "random flippidy flops". The match I'm talking about is the X Division Ranknings match from Slammiversary 2006 with Senshi vs Sonjay Dutt vs Petey Williams vs Jay Lethal vs Alex Shelley vs Shark Boy. That match held my attention for it's entire 20 minute duration, while showing a lot of psychology, especially between Shelley and Lethal. And yet these are the guys who are seen as "Spot Monkeys"

In my opinion like someone said earlier, Kurt Angle is a prime example of a spot monkey. All he wants to do is spots. But the storylines he's in keep me emotionally invested, so that's forgiven. But since the X Divission is rarely given storylines like Angle gets, they get the label.

And I do miss when the X Division would kick off the night on PPV's. But you have to remeber, back then there would be 2 X Division matches. The opening match would feature potential title contenders, then later in the night TNA would have the actualy title match.
 

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The biggest problem I have with spot monkeys is that they don't sell shit! Seriously they could slam the other opponent into a frigging truck moving at 75mph and just get up 2 seconds later. It's ridiculous. Not only that, but it's just spot after spot and it gets to the point where the match is forgettable because there were a 1000 spots you more or less forgot everything. Lastly, all these ridiculous flips and kicks and turns leads to a crappy ending. Case and point Gen Me vs MCMG at BFG 2010. All those dangerous highflying moves couldn't put Gem me down, but a crossbody did?

There's nothing wrong with highflying, but guys like MCMG and Gen Me in particular just overdo it. They go way overboard their matches are often forgettable. A slower paced match with selling with only 5 spots beats a fast paced match with zero selling, zero psychology and 1000 spots. The spots mean nothing in these matches and that's MY biggest problem with these guys.

Using Mysterio as an example of a spot monkey in the OP instantly shot apart any credibility to do with this. Rey Mysterio is NOT a spot monkey. A spot monkey is someone who uses no real psychology in their matches and just does random "exciting" stuff for the point of it. A perfect example would be Amazing Red or Kurt Angle when he tries to go out and put on an "amazing" match.

What's wrong with them? They make wrestling look ridiculous. When I watch wrestling, I want to be engrossed and believe what I'm watching is real, because that's when it's at its most exciting. How am I supposed to believe something is real when Brian Kendrick has done his best to put logic into a match by working Amazing Red's leg for minutes, with Red selling it until he suddenly decides to go up to the top rope and do a superdupercorkscrewwhateverthefuck, then pop back up so the crowd can cheer him? Yes, this is a real example from Genesis 2010.

Not every match has to have layers of emotion. It just has to at least resemble something that is real.
This made me laugh
 

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The term is flung around far too much. I think it applies only to those kind of wrestlers when they have little other ability outside of the high-flying stuff. Wrestlers also need mic skills and the ability to adapt in the ring.

As Bkb Hulk mentioned it sometimes conflicts with selling.

For example, WWE example here but it's a good one imo. At TLC 2010, JoMo did next to no high-flying stuff even though it was a ladder match, because Sheamus worked his knee and Morrison sold it like a pro. Ergo, not spot monkey.
 

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What is a ''Spot Monkey''?
 
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