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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is something that my friend and I have had an ongoing discussion about over the years, and I thought I would bring it up here. He's a life long Bret fan, and believes that the whole thing was just the most elaborately planned and well-executed wrestling angle of all time. I think the argument has merits. I mean, it did give birth to the greatest villan in pro-wrestling history, Mr. McMahon. How do we know this wasn't the plan all along? On the other hand, it would be one hell of a hoax if it were all just a fabricated story. There would have to be only a couple of people in on it, or else someone would eventually let the cat out of the bag.

There are just a few things about the whole situation that seem a little fishy to me. For example, why did Vince have to come down to the ring in the middle of the match? Would it not have made more sense to just tell Earl Hebner what to do before hand? Also, it seems a little conspicuous that Vince appears a few days later with a perfect black eye, which Bret supposedly gave to him backstage. Would Bret really punch the guy that had helped make him one of the most sucessful wrestlers of all time? And would Vince not sue the pants off the guy if he did? Maybe not, I dunno. I just think it makes for a compelling discussion and I thought I would see what all you guys thought.
 

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It's true, man! Vince did it to send Bret to WCW and drain their funds with his ridiculous contract payout and to make the greatest wrestling villain ever. A genius he is!
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
FX™;9106368 said:
A 12 year work until his return this year?
Why not? Once it was done it was done. It just snowballed into the biggest controversy in wrestling history. Why would they not let it continue?

If it was any kind of work at all, any pretence would have been dropped after Owen's death.
I don't see how Owen's death had anything to do with it. That happened 2 years later and really wasn't related in any way. I'm sure Bret probably blamed Vince somewhat for allowing that to happen, but what good would it have done him at that point to admit that he had been complicit in pulling the wool over everyone's eyes for 2 years?
 

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Why not? Once it was done it was done. It just snowballed into the biggest controversy in wrestling history. Why would they not let it continue?
Do you not realise how long 12 years is? Plus the fact he went to WCW, their rival company. I suppose that was a work too? Maybe they should move Cena to TNA, that'd be genius.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Do you not realise how long 12 years is? Plus the fact he went to WCW, their rival company. I suppose that was a work too? Maybe they should move Cena to TNA, that'd be genius.
The length of time elapsed since the event is irrelevant.

He was going to WCW already. That's why they had to get the belt off him in the firt place. If it was all a work, then the whole purpose would've been to make it look real, thus protecting Bret and making Vince out to be the bad guy. How would it have helped Bret if he had came out on WCW and said, "Oh sorry guys, that wasn't real. What really happened is Vince wanted to put the belt on Shawn because he thought Shawn was the future and I was a has-been."?

Why would they send Cena to TNA? That'd be stupid.
 

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There's always been that thought in the back of my mind that the whole thing was a work. I mean, yeah, it felt real, but cameras were there to film the ENTIRE thing unfold for Bret's documentary, and the one key moment that was missed was the one hardest to fake, the punch on Vince McMahon. Little suspicious if you ask me. Also, I found it funny that they did this screwjob thing and then almost immediately afterwards, they put Vince's immense controlling boss heel turn into effect & started laying the ground work for a feud with Austin. Reaction to crowd emotions based on real events or just careful planning? Who knows?

As of now, I operate under the assumption that it was all for real, but part of me still wonders to this day. If it was a work, then congrats. You fooled just about everybody.
 

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I like conspiracy theories too, but it was not a work. There is overwhelming evidence it was legit and zero evidence it was a work.

Where do we begin:

- Mick Foley has an entire chapter about it in his first book. He even talks about skipping Raw the next night because he was so furious over it. He was sharing a room with Kane, who had debuted his gimmick the month prior. Kane told Mick he would walk out too if he hadn't finally gotten over for the first time in his career. Now if Vince really thought Kane would walk out in the midst of a storyline with Taker that had been building for 6 months, don't you think he'd have told him it was a work? And same with Foley?

- It's a known fact Bret punched Vince in the face backstage. "Wrestling With Shadows" shows not only that, but the animosity Hart's family had toward Triple H during the whole incident.

- Rick Rude basically quit the company because of it. Then he showed up on a live Nitro - on the same night he was appearing on a taped Raw - and cut a promo about how Michaels and Vince had disgraced the business by screwing Bret.

- As has been stated previously, if it was a work, all that would have gone out the window after Owen's death.

- Bret wouldn't appear at WrestleMania 26 after his HOF induction because he was still mad about it. Again, at this point there was no point in continuing the ruse.

- And the biggest evidence: There has never been a single wrestler or anyone with any knowledge of it anywhere in the business that has ever remotely suggested it was a work. If it was, everyone would've known about it. And if everyone had known, Eric Bischoff would have absolutely gone out on Nitro and told everyone it was a work, because he was a giant douche like that. But he didn't. So that in itself is proof enough for me.

It wasn't a work. There is not a shred of even miniscule evidence to suggest that it was.

Fun to consider, but it's a total falsehood.
 

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If it was any kind of work at all, any pretence would have been dropped after Owen's death.
Not when you are employed by the opposition.

No, it wasn't a work. It could've have been because Bret would've come clean with it after his brother's death.
Bret worked for WCW. They’d terminate him on the spot.

"Oh sorry guys, that wasn't real. What really happened is Vince wanted to put the belt on Shawn because he thought Shawn was the future and I was a has-been."?

Why would they send Cena to TNA? That'd be stupid.
Better yet: ‘Vince and I concocted the plan to make us look good. I mean, you guys were offering me a whole lot of Ted Turner’s money, and Vince thought it’d be a good idea for me to take it. I love the guy, and I know he is paying me well, but he is encountering some financial difficulties, so I’ll come and take some money off of you for a while. I can always go back once I’ve made my money. Actually, even though we were both in on it, I think Vince really did screw me because you guys won’t have a clue how to book me. The buzz generated from the incident will stay with him. Fuck!’

- Mick Foley has an entire chapter about it in his first book. He even talks about skipping Raw the next night because he was so furious over it. He was sharing a room with Kane, who had debuted his gimmick the month prior. Kane told Mick he would walk out too if he hadn't finally gotten over for the first time in his career. Now if Vince really thought Kane would walk out in the midst of a storyline with Taker that had been building for 6 months, don't you think he'd have told him it was a work? And same with Foley?
You remember that kid in school that always bluffed? ‘I’ll do this and that’, he says. Well, Foley and Jacobs are the grown equivalent of that kid. They probably don't have a pair between them. Vince knows that. He called their bluff. He’s a smart guy. He knows how to handle a situation. Why disclose any information to the guys in the back when you’re the alpha male running the show?

- Rick Rude basically quit the company because of it. Then he showed up on a live Nitro - on the same night he was appearing on a taped Raw - and cut a promo about how Michaels and Vince had disgraced the business by screwing Bret.
Is this the same hot commodity that they failed to push and WCW failed to push, too? The guy was a world champ in waiting in the late '80s/ early '90s. Yeah, I’m sure Vince was so sad to see him go after they wasted him all those years.

As has been stated previously, if it was a work, all that would have gone out the window after Owen's death.
Again, if you work for the opposition, you aren’t going to forward that kind of information to anyone. Bret’s life went downhill. He really did have reason to be bitter. I’m sure he worked out that Vince got the better of that deal. The incident kept Bret relevant. He had no reason to come out against it. One day, the 'worked shoot' would lead him to return to the organisation, and, wouldn’t you know, it did.
 

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Have you ever heard of the documentary Wrestling with Shadows? The documentary specifically shows parts of days in Bret Harts life on the road and at home with his family before the big match at Survivor Series and he talks on the issue and it shows the events that unfolded after the screwing.

Now what I'm getting at is on the dvd there's a bonus disc with extra commentary from the director of the documentary Paul Jay who talks about how Vince McMahon tried to do everything he could to get the movie to not be released. Now if such a insignificant story to the Screwjob like that was a work then they all really went out of their way to fool us. Some things you just take for what they are.
 

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In all honesty if Bret & Vince wanted everyone to think it was a work, they easily could have done it, without HHH, HBK, Hebner or anyone else know. It would have been hard at first, but a week or two later it would have become part of the Vince McMahon evil boss storyline anyway. The problem was the day after whether people would quit over it, no one did, other than Rude, so no big loss, but a huge gain.

The obvious question is what would Bret gain from this, Vince gets his heel character, but what does Bret get, he should have gotten a huge babyface run in WCW, it's well known Bret didn't like being a heel, this would have been the perfect way to endear him to the US audience who he turned on. Logically it was a win win, and of course Vince knew WCW would screw Bret up anyway, so it wasn't a huge loss.

I'm just saying if on either Bret or Vince's deathbeds they say the whole thing was a work, I wouldn't be surprised.
 

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if rick rude managed to show up on nitro the same night as raw surely something must have been planned to allow that to happen.... or he was leaving in the firstplace a company would never allow someone from another company to just get in there ring and starting talking on the mic
 

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There are works inside works inside works. Everything is a work!!

Edit: I had a friend Jonny Storm. He said he knew Scott Hall I didn't belive him so we went to a book signing and when we got to the table Hall stood up and said "Jonny!!!" I was like wow dude. That night we arranged to go to his hotel for a drink and to show him some tapes of us wrestling on the uk indies. That night we asked the question. Scott's words where "everything is a work"
 

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if rick rude managed to show up on nitro the same night as raw surely something must have been planned to allow that to happen.... or he was leaving in the firstplace a company would never allow someone from another company to just get in there ring and starting talking on the mic
Rick Rude is a bad, bad man. Nobody is stopping him.
 
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