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-WWE would bring in 10 year contracts as the norm.
-WWE's roster would be three times as big as it is now.
-WWE would run towns at the same time as their competitor.
-WWE would procure local government help to stop their competitor running events.
-WWE would bring back big bad Jerry McDevitt.
 

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"Supposedly." Only the uneducated masses make such gross generalizations. In reality, live and sports-related content is more valuable than ever and still draw strong ratings.
That’s what they’re saying...

I think the likelihood of that happening is nil. While it is certainly possible, you have to consider that in the whole history of wrestling, no other individual promotion or promoter can claim to have been 1st in the industry for nearly 40 years straight. In fact, I'd say the average lifespan of a wrestling promotion before it goes defunct or absorbed into another is less than 15 years. There are exceptions, of course, like JCP, but even they didn't come close to the utter dominance WWE currently has over the industry and if anybody tells you otherwise they're a complete territory mark. Vince single-handedly wiped NWA off the map, and buried its last legitimate vestige in WCW. Even if by sheer force of will and cutthroat tactics alone, McMahon will do everything in his power to ensure there is no sustained, meaningful competition.

People also like to pretend that NWA, TNA or AEW were/are not and could not have ever been competition for WWE in order to downplay Vince's business acumen, when the claim is plainly untrue. All of them had significant money behind them, and Vince did not always have deep pockets himself. To pretend like McMahon didn't have to use business savvy to undercut his historical competition is being disingenuous. He may be shitty as a booker, but he's a very competent business man when it comes to media distribution, marketing/sales, establishing revenue streams, hoarding talent, being on the cutting edge of technology etc.
There’s some truth in there, but that’s a lot of WWE myth too. The national expansion was not smooth sailing (Black Saturday, anyone?) and the territories did a lot of damage to themselves. JCP made some extremely bone-headed decisions, spread themselves too far, and neglected their loyal towns. Mid-South was plagued by an economic crisis. Verne wasn’t transparent enough with Hogan or gave him enough to keep him in the AWA. TBS put Jim Herd in charge.

Vince was lucky too. I’m not saying he was an idiot, but he could have very easily been knocked around and probably even out if WCW management knew what they were doing in 1998.

Example: Imagine if WCW had released Hogan in 1997 after the Sting “job.” Do you really think Vince McMahon isn’t looking at bringing Hogan in ASAP? Do you really think Hulk isn’t going to buddy-up to HBK, who has a lot of influence at this time? You’d have Hulk and Shawn going to Vince “his neck, his neck” and HBK would be telling Vince he’d drop the belt to Hogan at Mania, but not Austin.

Hulk wins the 1998 Rumble, it’s “Hogan and Tyson! Hogan and Tyson!” and everything changes. Austin possibly gets fucking furious, he and JR jump back to WCW, JR scouts Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar and WCW gets the OVW deal. John Cena, Randy Orton, Bautista, Shelton Benjamin, Nick Dinsmore, Rob Conway, Doug Basham and The Damaja all end up in WCW.

More importantly, a Hogan/Michaels alliance probably forces The Rock out. That possibly pisses off Pat Patterson. Hogan and Michaels probably fill the roster with Kliq guys and Hulk’s Friends.
The thing is: Hulk would probably initially draw. There would be indicators that would suggest that Vince is turning around the WWF. Then Hulk will get tired and no one else will be around.
 

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Vince was lucky too. I’m not saying he was an idiot, but he could have very easily been knocked around and probably even out if WCW management knew what they were doing in 1998.
That was mainly my point. The whole WWE mythos is that Vince came into the industry and steamrolled everyone without much difficulty or challenge except for the Monday Night Wars. While that's true to one degree or another, there's also a lot of untruth to that as you pointed out. Black Saturday, the established and dedicated southern, NWA fanbase that literally would have taken ANY other territory except WWF (and later probably ECW) etc. Vince did face stiff competition many times, and even at times when the competition didn't have the same mainstream exposure (e.g. WCCW in the late 80s, early 90s), Vince managed to bury his own product with poor booking and out-of-touch gimmicks. Ultimately, if you believe Vince is a bad booker like I do, then his success in the wrestling industry can only really be attributed to being a shrewd, calculating and cutthroat businessman, including hiring and hoarding talented people (e.g. Jim Johnson).

And that politicking hypothetical you threw out there is so laughably accurate. Hogan would attach himself to Shawn like the parasite he is, and Shawn (I say this as a huge fan) would be a massive knob-gobbler and find any reason not to job to people he doesn't like lol.
 

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That was mainly my point. The whole WWE mythos is that Vince came into the industry and steamrolled everyone without much difficulty or challenge except for the Monday Night Wars. While that's true to one degree or another, there's also a lot of untruth to that as you pointed out. Black Saturday, the established and dedicated southern, NWA fanbase that literally would have taken ANY other territory except WWF (and later probably ECW) etc. Vince did face stiff competition many times, and even at times when the competition didn't have the same mainstream exposure (e.g. WCCW in the late 80s, early 90s), Vince managed to bury his own product with poor booking and out-of-touch gimmicks. Ultimately, if you believe Vince is a bad booker like I do, then his success in the wrestling industry can only really be attributed to being a shrewd, calculating and cutthroat businessman, including hiring and hoarding talented people (e.g. Jim Johnson).

And that politicking hypothetical you threw out there is so laughably accurate. Hogan would attach himself to Shawn like the parasite he is, and Shawn (I say this as a huge fan) would be a massive knob-gobbler and find any reason not to job to people he doesn't like lol.
Ah, I misunderstood where you were coming from a little. Yes, I totally agree with that.

Hell, Vince kind of pre-empted Watts getting the TBS slot by getting Barnett to negotiate with Crockett to buy it, didn't he? That takes money away from Crockett and blocks out Vince's most ruthless competitor in the toughest market for Vince to crack. He definitely does have business savvy. There are people criticizing him for sacrificing the WWE Network, but at some point people are going to have to start choosing which streaming services they subscribe to, and WWE is going to lose out to Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime and Peacock. Selling content to them means giant revenue, happy investors and a good stock price. Maybe even more exposure. Clinging to the WWE Network for whatever reason is actually fairly limited thinking, despite the Network being somewhat revolutionary even just six years ago.

Lol, Michaels did his best to make Austin look shit in the WrestleMania XIV main event anyway. That babyface back selling while going slow on offense. Can you imagine early 1998 Austin got a call from Vince McMahon who was like "You're not getting Michaels, but we've got something just as big for you, pal -- the WWF Intercontinental Title!" Oh man, how history would be different.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
It's more popular now than 2003-04 or 93-95 in terms of getting fans to buy tickets to shows or pay for events on tv

There isn't a spectre of eventual demise hanging over the business worldwide now like there was back in 2003-04. Smackdown was on the verge of being cancelled for a number of years then which would have left just two hours of Raw on a b level cable channel as the only broadcast on us tv weekly. Now we have SD on national TV, 3 hours of raw, nxt and aew on the two biggest cable channels as well as lots of WWE reality shows.

Wrestlemania is back in stadiums, rumble is now in stadiums, NJPW just drew 70,000 fans over two nights.

It is missing that star who can transcend the business obviously. Of course if that person arrives it's possible a boom or at the very least a mini boom like 2007-09 occurs.
Smackdown was never on the verge of being cancelled. That's just ridiculous
 

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Smackdown was never on the verge of being cancelled. That's just ridiculous
I’m pretty sure it was. Heyman has said it was on the verge of being dropped. And it did get dropped from many international markets. And look how it pinged around from UPN to the CW to MyNetworkTV to SyFy. That’s not quite TNA-level, but it’s been nowhere near the “staple” Raw has.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I’m pretty sure it was. Heyman has said it was on the verge of being dropped. And it did get dropped from many international markets. And look how it pinged around from UPN to the CW to MyNetworkTV to SyFy. That’s not quite TNA-level, but it’s been nowhere near the “staple” Raw has.
Lord knows if Heyman says it, it must be true, right?

It may have gotten dropped from several international markets (because obviously the number of fans aren't gonna be equally strong in every country) but its ratings in the States were still splendid. I find it almost impossible to believe that it was on the verge of cancellation.
 

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Lord knows if Heyman says it, it must be true, right?

It may have gotten dropped from several international markets (because obviously the number of fans aren't gonna be equally strong in every country) but its ratings in the States were still splendid. I find it almost impossible to believe that it was on the verge of cancellation.
I'm not going to argue the point of Heyman being a known liar, but that seems an odd and pointless bit of flavor to the story. You don't believe it, I think most do.

Not everything is about the fundamental rating. It's what you can do with that rating. It's how it helps your network and how much you make in advertising revenue. If SmackDown wasn't doing well there, then it having good ratings means nothing. Ask Nitro about that.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I'm not going to argue the point of Heyman being a known liar, but that seems an odd and pointless bit of flavor to the story. You don't believe it, I think most do.

Not everything is about the fundamental rating. It's what you can do with that rating. It's how it helps your network and how much you make in advertising revenue. If SmackDown wasn't doing well there, then it having good ratings means nothing. Ask Nitro about that.
Nitro got cancelled mostly because it was costing Time Warner millions of dollars (since they literally funded everything that went on in WCW) and because the big wigs in the company didn't want pro wrestling on their network anymore (since it didn't fit the image they wanted Time Warner to have going forward.)

Smackdown was by far the highest rated show on every station its ever been on (sans USA and FOX) and was incredibly cheap to produce.
 

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Smackdown was never on the verge of being cancelled. That's just ridiculous

Yes it was. I can't find them now but there are articles from 2002-03 talking about it. SD even at its peak was doing lowest ad rates on broadcast tv so fall in viewers especially young viewers which saw gigantic fall between 2000 and 2003 would hurt it massively. Was also expensive to run and by 2004 some tapings were only drawing 3 figures so WWE themselves were starting to wonder was it worth it

They did eventually renew in 2003 but talk of cancellation started in late 2004/early 05 UPN will not renew 'WWE Smackdown'

WWE got a renewal again when they agreed to drop 50/50 ad split which ended up costing WWE a vast amount of money at the time
 

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Nitro got cancelled mostly because it was costing Time Warner millions of dollars (since they literally funded everything that went on in WCW) and because the big wigs in the company didn't want pro wrestling on their network anymore (since it didn't fit the image they wanted Time Warner to have going forward.)

Smackdown was by far the highest rated show on every station its ever been on (sans USA and FOX) and was incredibly cheap to produce.
WCW was a money pit, that's true, but there were no way of recouping those losses. The thing with Time Warner not wanting wrestling is bullshit. Yes, it had an image problem. This is why the ratings don't mean shit, because wrestling has stigma. But they'd keep it if they were profitable. No serious executive is going to cost something generating $60 million in profit as opposed to putting them $60 million in the red.

SmackDown can be the highest thing on its networks, but if advertisers are going "Ew, wrestling," that doesn't mean shit. How else would you explain it moving around as much as it has?
 

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I also don't buy the argument Time Warner simply decided to stop showing wrestling. The graphs concerning live attendance, PPV buys, ratings, salary, loss and feedback would have made for ugly reading. The brand was incredibly badly damaged. Bischoff wanted to reboot it but wrestling had peaked and competing with the alternative seemed like a mute point. Even to this day it seems wrong and pointless to bring back WCW, which illustrates how much it's reputation was damaged.

Though wrestling in terms of ad revenue was in a bad place by the early 2000's. Amazing to think there was a 4 year period where neither USA nor TNT had wrestling on air. Even WWE had to take their brand to Viacom so USA Network would up their offer.

Interesting to see how things stand when WWE's TV rights need renewing in 2023 or early 2024. AEW has highlighted how any start up or perhaps wrestling broadcast can instantaneously deliver 1 million viewers and a decent demo. With MLW, Impact, ROH all possessing experience in weekly TV it brings to question how much WWE Raw is actually worth. Nevertheless, AEW appears to be following the TNA situation of plateauing around a set audience of 40% of WWE's. With the cable networks and streaming services competing for original cotnent, I wonder if we'll see a situation where they try slicing up Raw and Smackdown and selling the rights for individual hours to different platforms.
 

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It kind of funny but I always felt Redbull could start a wrestling company,They have the money and the revenue and the market for pushing sports.Same with any big company it funny how they never got into the wrestling business.AEW is good but it will take sometime before they want too go where they want to go.As for ROH I can’t see them coming up again too many bad move with Sinclair not give them the exposure they needed.
Yeah ats what I said and Bret Hartman gonna come back and get all the UFC belts like they done said. It was hissery in a hallway
 

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I also don't buy the argument Time Warner simply decided to stop showing wrestling. The graphs concerning live attendance, PPV buys, ratings, salary, loss and feedback would have made for ugly reading. The brand was incredibly badly damaged. Bischoff wanted to reboot it but wrestling had peaked and competing with the alternative seemed like a mute point. Even to this day it seems wrong and pointless to bring back WCW, which illustrates how much it's reputation was damaged.

Though wrestling in terms of ad revenue was in a bad place by the early 2000's. Amazing to think there was a 4 year period where neither USA nor TNT had wrestling on air. Even WWE had to take their brand to Viacom so USA Network would up their offer.

Interesting to see how things stand when WWE's TV rights need renewing in 2023 or early 2024. AEW has highlighted how any start up or perhaps wrestling broadcast can instantaneously deliver 1 million viewers and a decent demo. With MLW, Impact, ROH all possessing experience in weekly TV it brings to question how much WWE Raw is actually worth. Nevertheless, AEW appears to be following the TNA situation of plateauing around a set audience of 40% of WWE's. With the cable networks and streaming services competing for original cotnent, I wonder if we'll see a situation where they try slicing up Raw and Smackdown and selling the rights for individual hours to different platforms.
TNA never had face to face WWE competition. I imagine AEW is at 50% of WWE ratings wise if Dynamite was left to stand on its own on Wednedays. And that is with Wednesday being the worst drawing night of the week, those are Vince McMahons own words.

Would be very interesting to see AEWs ratings alone on a Thursday night. It is definitely bigger than TNA was.
 

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As a gay wrestling fan I think it would be great for AEW to outdraw WWE. They have the first mainstream transgender champion! This is huge for the LGBTQ+ community
 

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TNA never had face to face WWE competition. I imagine AEW is at 50% of WWE ratings wise if Dynamite was left to stand on its own on Wednedays. And that is with Wednesday being the worst drawing night of the week, those are Vince McMahons own words.

Would be very interesting to see AEWs ratings alone on a Thursday night. It is definitely bigger than TNA was.
  • TNA did have WWE face to face competition when they went to monday nights and they drew 2.2 million viewers. If Dynamite was on a different night their viewership wouldn't change, because NXT fans still wouldn't watch because they only watch WWE. Just like WCW fans didn't just watch Raw after Nitro was cancelled and WCW went out of business. No AEW isn't bigger then TNA was its smaller and just more overhyped then TNA. And if you really think about it AEW is TNA 2.0 if you really want to get technical about it.
 

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It won't though, it's pretty doubtful that any company will ever reach WWE's level. Simple fact of life that WWE is never dying. Some competition would be nice though I guess.
 

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I also don't buy the argument Time Warner simply decided to stop showing wrestling. The graphs concerning live attendance, PPV buys, ratings, salary, loss and feedback would have made for ugly reading. The brand was incredibly badly damaged. Bischoff wanted to reboot it but wrestling had peaked and competing with the alternative seemed like a mute point. Even to this day it seems wrong and pointless to bring back WCW, which illustrates how much it's reputation was damaged.

Though wrestling in terms of ad revenue was in a bad place by the early 2000's. Amazing to think there was a 4 year period where neither USA nor TNT had wrestling on air. Even WWE had to take their brand to Viacom so USA Network would up their offer.

Interesting to see how things stand when WWE's TV rights need renewing in 2023 or early 2024. AEW has highlighted how any start up or perhaps wrestling broadcast can instantaneously deliver 1 million viewers and a decent demo. With MLW, Impact, ROH all possessing experience in weekly TV it brings to question how much WWE Raw is actually worth. Nevertheless, AEW appears to be following the TNA situation of plateauing around a set audience of 40% of WWE's. With the cable networks and streaming services competing for original cotnent, I wonder if we'll see a situation where they try slicing up Raw and Smackdown and selling the rights for individual hours to different platforms.
These are some great points. It’s also worth pointing out that Viacom and others wanted nothing to do with the WCW brand even when it was under Vince McMahon’s control.

People overlook just what an idiot Eric Bischoff was too. He gets off easy because he plays a quick-witted sleazeball on TV really well. But this guy would have been an absolute nightmare to deal with. This is a guy that produced PPVs that went overtime without telling the providers causing mass refunds. Twice. This is also the man that cut his buddy a deal to distribute WCW home video, taking it away from Warner, costing them a lot of money. Concerts, bands, Jay Leno, unused sets. Hell, this is the guy who saw Goldberg vs. Meng for a huge rating and thought it meant he should push Meng.
 

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Perhaps they should partner with some MMA orgs. Bellator and Rizin did such after all.They could then promote and advertise each other in their respective shows, guest appearances, as among the audience, interviews, respective fighters posing together, even banners, posters, TV marquee flashes, etc. And there's ONE in Southeast Asia.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
It won't though, it's pretty doubtful that any company will ever reach WWE's level. Simple fact of life that WWE is never dying. Some competition would be nice though I guess.
They're gonna die in the year 2024... Mark my words, I can read the future through numerology
 
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