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Discussion Starter #41
You're changing the topic of conversation now. The topic was WWE and WCW letting fans in for free. You said they didn't and I proved WCW did and can prove WWE did as well. I'm not denying WWE admits when attendance is down. But WWE have let fans in for free just like WCW and MANY other promotions. I believe Impact is doing the same thing. YOU'RE arguing they're not. There's a good chance Impact does it as well.

If you don't want to believe it, fine. No problem. Just don't get mad when people disagree with you and you start calling names. Then when you see proof you refuse to believe it.
 

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You're changing the topic of conversation now. The topic was WWE and WCW letting fans in for free. You said they didn't and I proved WCW did and can prove WWE did as well. I'm not denying WWE admits when attendance is down. But WWE have let fans in for free just like WCW and MANY other promotions. I believe Impact is doing the same thing. YOU'RE arguing they're not. There's a good chance Impact does it as well.

If you don't want to believe it, fine. No problem. Just don't get mad when people disagree with you and you start calling names. Then when you see proof you refuse to believe it.
Im not off topic Im still on topic and everything that I've posted has been on topic. I already proved in my above comment that WWE aren't letting people in for free because they admit that attendance is down which is still on topic. okay buddy if you want to believe that then go ahead. And you just contradicted yourself if they admit that attendance is down then it make 0 sense to let people in free. Come on man get your story straight. Impact, WWE, and other companies aren't doing that. What part of that don't you understand?
 

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You're changing the topic of conversation now. The topic was WWE and WCW letting fans in for free. You said they didn't and I proved WCW did and can prove WWE did as well. I'm not denying WWE admits when attendance is down. But WWE have let fans in for free just like WCW and MANY other promotions. I believe Impact is doing the same thing. YOU'RE arguing they're not. There's a good chance Impact does it as well.

If you don't want to believe it, fine. No problem. Just don't get mad when people disagree with you and you start calling names. Then when you see proof you refuse to believe it.
Oh by the way the only attendance numbers WWE lied about was Wrestlemania when they claimed they got 93-100,000 people when in actuality they only got 60-70,000 people. And thats been proven over and over again.
 

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Few things:

1. TNA was also one of those promotions who used to give away tickets for free. Do they still do it? I imagine so. Companies have sponsors, contest winners, free tickets for media and other businesses that support them, friends, family, schools etc. Many ticket offices offer deals as well like buy 1 get 1 free which may have been used. They also may have just drawn that 5000 by themselves I don't follow Impact's situation closely enough to know.

2. The guy that keeps going on about TNA drawing 5000 people for Bound For Glory yes I'll agree that's a decent crowd for them but they seem to average about 1000-2000 for most bigger events according to Google. I tend to lean towards free tickets being given out as well because 5000 people paying to watch Impact Wrestling in 2019 seems hard to believe.

3. TNA is a big independent and certainly not a "major promotion" in 2020. It's last reported ratings were 150,000 people tuning in and it's now apparently less than that. NWA Powerrr gets around that for their weekly web show and they are an independent. Impact has mainly independent wrestlers on their roster with their most popular stars being guys that WWE or AEW don't want. With that in mind their biggest national star is probably Rob Van Dam who turns 50 this year. I just had a look at their roster and barely recognise any of the people on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
This guy just doesn't get it. He just doesn't get it. Why would WWE have fans come in for free and then admit attendance is down? Simple. Once upon a time they weren't a publicly traded company and keep that information to themselves. Nowadays they have to be upfront with that information. HOWOEVER, they still give tickets away for free for the purpose of looking good on television. So when they mention attendance down they're not talking about the 75% filled arena. They're talking about the 50% that actually paid, not the 25% that didn't. You're just not getting it.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Plus Chip brings up a good point about the ratings. They have much less exposure then they ever had. The only other time they had that number of people watching was when they first started with the weekly ppv on Wednesdays.

Anybody remember those days?
 

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Im not off topic Im still on topic and everything that I've posted has been on topic. I already proved in my above comment that WWE aren't letting people in for free because they admit that attendance is down which is still on topic. okay buddy if you want to believe that then go ahead. And you just contradicted yourself if they admit that attendance is down then it make 0 sense to let people in free. Come on man get your story straight. Impact and WWE aren't doing that what part of that don't you understand?
Few things:

1. TNA was also one of those promotions who used to give away tickets for free. Do they still do it? I imagine so. Companies have sponsors, contest winners, free tickets for media and other businesses that support them, friends, family, schools etc. Many ticket offices offer deals as well like buy 1 get 1 free which may have been used. They also may have just drawn that 5000 by themselves I don't follow Impact's situation closely enough to know.

2. The guy that keeps going on about TNA drawing 5000 people for Bound For Glory yes I'll agree that's a decent crowd for them but they seem to average about 1000-2000 for most bigger events according to Google. I tend to lean towards free tickets being given out as well because 5000 people paying to watch Impact Wrestling in 2019 seems hard to believe.

3. TNA is a big independent and certainly not a "major promotion" in 2020. It's last reported ratings were 150,000 people tuning in and it's now apparently less than that. NWA Powerrr gets around that for their weekly web show and they are an independent. Impact has mainly independent wrestlers on their roster with their most popular stars being guys that WWE or AEW don't want. With that in mind their biggest national star is probably Rob Van Dam who turns 50 this year. I just had a look at their roster and barely recognise any of the people on it.
You're right they average 1,000-2,000 for tv tapings no one was denying that.

They're getting 250,000 people watching them on a small network thats only in 50 million homes.

They draw about 250,000 on a network that is only in 45 million homes, which translates to about 500,000 on a larger network.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/fm99v5/_/fl3rzmj
That came from an Impact employee so they're not getting 150,000 they're getting 250,000 viewers.

Most of the people on their roster AEW wanted but they chose to sign with Impact. AEW offered Jordynne Grace, Rosemary, and Willie Mack contracts but they didn't want to go to AEW.

On talking to ROH, NWA, WWE and AEW: “I had contact with each of those companies, and had many options and offers in front of me. At the end of the day, Impact is where I wanted to be. I was ready to make a difficult decision if needed, but I was sincerely hoping everything would work out in the end! I can’t be sure if Double or Nothing had anything to do with it, but it’s a possibility.”

So you're wrong AEW did want them but you're right about WWE not wanting them.

Its not an independent promotion since its on tv. An independent promotion is one thats not on tv

professional wrestling, the independent circuit or indie circuit is the collective name of independent professional wrestling promotions which are smaller than major televised promotions.
 

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Few things:

1. TNA was also one of those promotions who used to give away tickets for free. Do they still do it? I imagine so. Companies have sponsors, contest winners, free tickets for media and other businesses that support them, friends, family, schools etc. Many ticket offices offer deals as well like buy 1 get 1 free which may have been used. They also may have just drawn that 5000 by themselves I don't follow Impact's situation closely enough to know.

2. The guy that keeps going on about TNA drawing 5000 people for Bound For Glory yes I'll agree that's a decent crowd for them but they seem to average about 1000-2000 for most bigger events according to Google. I tend to lean towards free tickets being given out as well because 5000 people paying to watch Impact Wrestling in 2019 seems hard to believe.

3. TNA is a big independent and certainly not a "major promotion" in 2020. It's last reported ratings were 150,000 people tuning in and it's now apparently less than that. NWA Powerrr gets around that for their weekly web show and they are an independent. Impact has mainly independent wrestlers on their roster with their most popular stars being guys that WWE or AEW don't want. With that in mind their biggest national star is probably Rob Van Dam who turns 50 this year. I just had a look at their roster and barely recognise any of the people on it.
This guy just doesn't get it. He just doesn't get it. Why would WWE have fans come in for free and then admit attendance is down? Simple. Once upon a time they weren't a publicly traded company and keep that information to themselves. Nowadays they have to be upfront with that information. HOWOEVER, they still give tickets away for free for the purpose of looking good on television. So when they mention attendance down they're not talking about the 75% filled arena. They're talking about the 50% that actually paid, not the 25% that didn't. You're just not getting it.
This guy just doesn't get it. He just doesn't get it. Why would WWE have fans come in for free and then admit attendance is down? Simple. Once upon a time they weren't a publicly traded company and keep that information to themselves. Nowadays they have to be upfront with that information. HOWOEVER, they still give tickets away for free for the purpose of looking good on television. So when they mention attendance down they're not talking about the 75% filled arena. They're talking about the 50% that actually paid, not the 25% that didn't. You're just not getting it.
No you don't get. Them being a publicly traded company has nothing to do with my question. They wouldn't admit attendance is down if they could get people to show for free like you're saying so everything that you're saying makes no sense. No when they say attendance is down they're talking about the people who paid to be there, and plus if they were letting people in for free it would get out there would be no way for them to cover it up. They can't lie about stuff like that since its a publicly traded company. So you're just not getting it.
 

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Plus Chip brings up a good point about the ratings. They have much less exposure then they ever had. The only other time they had that number of people watching was when they first started with the weekly ppv on Wednesdays.

Anybody remember those days?
They're doing better than what you're saying

They draw about 250,000 on a network that is only in 45 million homes, which translates to about 500,000 on a larger network.
Plus Chip brings up a good point about the ratings. They have much less exposure then they ever had. The only other time they had that number of people watching was when they first started with the weekly ppv on Wednesdays.

Anybody remember those days?
They're getting 250,000 on a network thats only in 50 million homes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/fm99v5/_/fl3rzmj
So again you're wrong as susual.
 

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Ozell look at your description

"professional wrestling, the independent circuit or indie circuit is the collective name of independent professional wrestling promotions which are smaller than major televised promotions."

Impact isn't a major televised promotion. It was about 6-7 years ago when they were on Spike but they are now a promotion on a very small network with very few major stars (As I pointed out Van Dam probably their most famous guy) and very little money coming in as evidenced by their roster.

In Japan heaps of the promotions are on national television but they are still independent companies. Hell, in a lot of countries you can pay 200-300 dollars a week and be on national television. Does that make you a major promotion?
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Ok buddy. WWE does it too. What's your excuse now. If you want more videos of former WWE talent and office workers talking about giving away free tickets just let me know.

Start at 22:14

 

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Ozell look at your description

"professional wrestling, the independent circuit or indie circuit is the collective name of independent professional wrestling promotions which are smaller than major televised promotions."

Impact isn't a major televised promotion. It was about 6-7 years ago when they were on Spike but they are now a promotion on a very small network with very few major stars (As I pointed out Van Dam probably their most famous guy) and very little money coming in as evidenced by their roster.

In Japan heaps of the promotions are on national television but they are still independent companies. Hell, in a lot of countries you can pay 200-300 dollars a week and be on national television. Does that make you a major promotion?
Chip heres the full list of what it says

professional wrestling, the independent circuit or indie circuit is the collective name of independent professional wrestling promotions 👉which are smaller than major televised promotions👈.

So its not an independent promotion since its on tv. No company is a major promotion EXCEPT WWE and no one said that Impact was a major promotion that never was typed by me. They have plenty of money coming in

Impact is turning a good profit for the second straight year.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/d2v8oy/_/ezxf0d6
Company is doing real well. They have huge tv deals overseas, ratings will be coming out here soon, they have tv filmed until April 14, filming 7 more weeks this upcoming week. Things will be great again after this BS is done
https://www.reddit.com/r/ImpactWrestling/comments/fuz7hg/_/fmjlx5r
They're not an independent company if they're on tv which the definition says as I showed you. No company is an indpendent promotion if its on tv period. Again NO company is a major promotion EXCEPT WWE even if said promotion is on a big network its still NOT a major promotion but its NOT an indy if its on tv.
 

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Ok buddy. WWE does it too. What's your excuse now. If you want more videos of former WWE talent and office workers talking about giving away free tickets just let me know.

Start at 22:14

First smart guy Im talking today meaning in RECENTLY NOT back in the day. So no you didn't show that WWE does it. They did it back in the day but they're not doing it today which was my point so you didn't disprove what I said.
 

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Major Promotions in my opinion are AAA, AEW, CMLL, NJPW and WWE. All are making money from their endeavours, building up assets, have big stars under contract and are pretty regularly drawing big houses.

I could go and get a national TV wrestling show here in Australia for under 20,000 dollars. Does that make me a major promotion?
 

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Major Promotions in my opinion are AAA, AEW, CMLL, NJPW and WWE. All are making money from their endeavours, building up assets, have big stars under contract and are pretty regularly drawing big houses.

I could go and get a national TV wrestling show here in Australia for under 20,000 dollars. Does that make me a major promotion?
So if those companies are major then by your logic Impact are a major company as well. And Impact are drawing big houses(1,000-2,000) for their tv tapings so they're major using your logic. They're not drawing crowds like WWE are, NJPW in Japan, And AAA in Mexico but 1000 and 2000 people is still large. You're argument got proven wrong when you called it an indy which it isn't according to the definition. 👉And where in my comments did I call Impact a major company huh?I've been consistent in saying that WWE are the ONLY MAJOR company in wrestling.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
WOW Really?! You said WWE and WCW NEVER gave away free tickets. I proved you wrong and now you're gonna play the "Well, that was a long time ago. I'm talking about now" routine??? Really. I can give you info about free tickets for RAW, Smackdown, and NXT if you want.

Then when Chip gives you facts, then you say he's wrong too. Are you for real? So everyone is wrong but you?

Lets break down our conversation to recap.

I said: "TNA/ Impact has gone down hill."

You said: "No, they bounced back, it's making money."

I said: "How can that be? They're not on a good channel. Their roster is mostly no names. Impact has very little fans. Less people watching then ever. They weren't making alot of money with Kurt Angle, Sting and AJ Styles. But their supposedly making money with Sami Callihan and Tessa Blanchard?"

You said: "They have high attendances for their shows."

I said: "Well how many people in those crowds actually paid?"

You said: "Everyone pays. No one gets in for free."

I said: "No, promotions always let fans in for free. Especially for TV. WWE and WCW even did that.

You said: "No, WWE and WCW NEVER did that"

I said: "Here WCW did it" with proof.

You said: "Well WCW did that. WWE and Impact don't do that."

I said: Here's WWE, they did it" with proof

You said: No no, I'm talking about right now.

Dude you sound so petty and unwilling to admit you might be wrong.
 

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So if those companies are major then by your logic Impact are a major company as well. And Impact are drawing big houses(1,000-2,000) for their tv tapings so they're major using your logic. They're not drawing crowds like WWE are, NJPW in Japan, And AAA in Mexico but 1000 and 2000 people is still large. You're argument got proven wrong when you called it an indy which it isn't according to the definition. 👉And where in my comments did I call Impact a major company huh?I've been consistent in saying that WWE are the ONLY MAJOR company in wrestling.
Those companies are major because they have massive stars under contract, draw huge crowds and are making tons of money.

For example, Bound For Glory 2019 did draw 5000 people which is good but was the first time they'd drawn anything like that in many years. As you and I both agree they average around 1000-2000 people for major events and probably a bit under for TV.

Compare it to the promotions that you are trying to say Impact is on the same level as:

AAA Triplemania (December 2019): 15,000 in attendance

AEW Full Gear (November 2019): 8200 in attendance

Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill (January 2020: No official attendance announced but video shows maybe 1000-2000 people.

NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14 (January 2020): Night 1: 40,000 Night 2: 30,000

WWE Survivor Series (November 2019) 13,271

Impact is kind of on the same level as ROH now. They both draw 1000-2000 people and have a smaller television deal. They're both a big deal in comparison to your local down the road indy drawing 100 people and have a couple of known stars but they are on the level below major. They are a major independent or if you didn't want to use the word independent you could refer to them as low level national companies.
 

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WOW Really?! You said WWE and WCW NEVER gave away free tickets. I proved you wrong and now you're gonna play the "Well, that was a long time ago. I'm talking about now" routine??? Really. I can give you info about free tickets for RAW, Smackdown, and NXT if you want.

Then when Chip gives you facts, then you say he's wrong too. Are you for real? So everyone is wrong but you?

Lets break down our conversation to recap.

I said: "TNA/ Impact has gone down hill."

You said: "No, they bounced back, it's making money."

I said: "How can that be? They're not on a good channel. Their roster is mostly no names. Impact has very little fans. Less people watching then ever. They weren't making alot of money with Kurt Angle, Sting and AJ Styles. But their supposedly making money with Sami Callihan and Tessa Blanchard?"

You said: "They have high attendances for their shows."

I said: "Well how many people in those crowds actually paid?"

You said: "Everyone pays. No one gets in for free."

I said: "No, promotions always let fans in for free. Especially for TV. WWE and WCW even did that.

You said: "No, WWE and WCW NEVER did that"

I said: "Here WCW did it" with proof.

You said: "Well WCW did that. WWE and Impact don't do that."

I said: Here's WWE, they did it" with proof

You said: No no, I'm talking about right now.

Dude you sound so petty and unwilling to admit you might be wrong.
Again I was talking about TODAY with WWE and back then WITH WCW. No you didn't prove me wrong because like I said I was talking about RECENTLY with WWE NOT a long time ago. Give them to me and I'll prove you wrong so go for it.

Chip didn't give me any facts so are YOU SERIOUS? Everything that I've said I've SHOWN PROOF to back up what I said.

And they are making money as I showed you MULTIPLE TIMES.

Impact is turning a good profit for the second straight year.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/d2v8oy/_/ezxf0d6
They're getting 250,000 viewers now

Company is doing real well. They have huge tv deals overseas, ratings will be coming out here soon, they have tv filmed until April 14, filming 7 more weeks this upcoming week. Things will be great again after this BS is done
https://www.reddit.com/r/ImpactWrestling/comments/fuz7hg/_/fmjlx5r
And TNA made a profit from 2005-12 so again you're wrong.

I cited and posted sources saying EVERYONE PAID that were in attendance but keep looking stupid.

No you sound petty and stupid even with you being proven wrong multiple times.
 

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Those companies are major because they have massive stars under contract, draw huge crowds and are making tons of money.

For example, Bound For Glory 2019 did draw 5000 people which is good but was the first time they'd drawn anything like that in many years. As you and I both agree they average around 1000-2000 people for major events and probably a bit under for TV.

Compare it to the promotions that you are trying to say Impact is on the same level as:

AAA Triplemania (December 2019): 15,000 in attendance

AEW Full Gear (November 2019): 8200 in attendance

Impact Wrestling Hard To Kill (January 2020: No official attendance announced but video shows maybe 1000-2000 people.

NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14 (January 2020): Night 1: 40,000 Night 2: 30,000

WWE Survivor Series (November 2019) 13,271

Impact is kind of on the same level as ROH now. They both draw 1000-2000 people and have a smaller television deal. They're both a big deal in comparison to your local down the road indy drawing 100 people and have a couple of known stars but they are on the level below major. They are a major independent or if you didn't want to use the word independent you could refer to them as low level national companies.
So by your logic then Impact are a major promotional so since they get big crowds (not as big as WWE, AAA, and NJPW's crowds) and are making tons of money.

Of course no one is denying that they draw 1000-2000 for their shows on average. Exactly they drew 5,000 people only for BFG which was my point and its the first time that they've done that since 2013.

I never said they were on the same level as AAA, and NJPW what I said was that NO company is major in pro Wrestling except WWE which is true. Impact, AEW, AAA, and NJPW ect just aren't major promotions.


Google says Hard To Kill had 3,000

Hard To Kill was a professional wrestling pay-per-view event produced by Impact Wrestling. It took place on January 12, 2020, in Dallas, Texas. Nine matches were contested at the event. Wikipedia
Location: The Bomb Factory, Dallas, TX
Date: January 12, 2020
Venue: The Bomb Factory
Promotion: Impact Wrestling
Attendance: 3,000

But I get what you're saying but that wasn't argument. My argument is that is doing good business just not on the same level as WWE, AAA, and NJPW.


Impact are above ROH but below WWE, AAA, AEW, and NJPW definitely. ROH haven't gotten 1,000 or 2,000 in awhile now. Oh definitely AXS tv is a small network no doubt. They're not independent companies since they're on tv and EVERY nonWWE company are low level tv and EVERY nonWWE company are low level national companies. No company are major in pro Wrestling except WWE and everyone else are just low level companies.

It was great having a conversation with you and atleast we agreed on a couple of things👍
 
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