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So everyone remembers when the likes of Giant, Jericho, Raven, Benoit, Eddie etc jumped from WCW to WWF when the tides shifted over to WWF and they took the younger WCW talent, blah blah. My question is, if you were you a 100% WWF watcher is it I'm guessing seeing these guys shoot over was something cool and new to you?

Right, I get it y2J is awesome, Benoit is a great wrestler and everyone loves the late great Eddie but I feel like I saw enough of these guys in WCW by this point. True, you get to see new fresh dream matches with WWF guys but lol, I saw all that I could see from Benoit in WCW. I just wonder if the reason "everyone" liked WWF in 2000 with the "stacked roster" is mainly because they didn't watch WCW (and hated them during the heat of the Monday night Wars) and seeing the tides shift and it was obvious who was taking over. One thing i did like about those days were when the guys would hop over, the Rock would just destroy them all on the mic.

Even Booker T, Rey Mysterio or nWo in WWE when they came over in 2002. Ok cool, I liked them but idk I got enough of those guys from WCW 96-99 and just stopped watching consistently for good. I never watched ECW and the one thing I loved about the Invasion time was RVD. He was always one of my favorites.
 

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I watched WCW before and was plenty familiar with Benoit, Jericho etc, but it was definitely still exciting seeing them come over. Part of the appeal beyond just the potential match ups, was the idea that these guys were gonna be given the spotlight they deserved in the WWF and wouldnt be in Hogans et al's shadow (Of course it didnt necessarily turn out that way for all of them in the end)

On a personal level, the Radicalz arrival was one of the biggest nails in the coffin for WCW as far as my interest went. The WWF had already been delivering better "moments" and storylines for a while at that point but WCW had still had the better midcard and better in ring action thanks in large part to those four. Jericho leaving had already been a huge blow and once those 4 were gone too that was it, the WWF was then doing EVERYTHING much better than WCW, and it stayed that way to the end of the MNWs.

What makes 2000 WWF so great is how compared to previous AE years the roster had way more depth and the in ring work was more consistently good across the card. The influx of WCW and ECW talent played a major role in that obviously.
 

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I was team WWF all the way to the point where if Raw was preempted I still wouldn't watch Nitro.

The way I felt about it could best be described as the feeling you get when your favorite sports team signs a megastar away from their rivals. Jericho and the Radicalz coming over would be like(for me at least) the Boston Red Sox signing Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Mike Mussina and Jorge Posada when they were all in their prime away from the New York Yankees. Sure I'd seen them a million times before, but now they're playing for the home team.
 
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I wasn't overly excited when the Radicalz came over in 2000, I was familiar with all of them from WCW, but I wasn't a big fan, but Jericho had my interest right from the get go. I was a fan of his in WCW and was excited to see what he could do in the main event scene.
 

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Pffttt... It can be argued that no one noticed when Jericho left. He had a following, but The Rock was right. While the Rock was winning Championships, Jericho was getting beat by Juventud Guerrera. Jericho's debut was amazing and WWF did a great job of establishing him. However, due to the way he was booked in WCW, they didn't lose anything to their show.

When the Radicalz jumped, well the same can almost be said for them. Beniot had won the title, so losing him was a big deal - BUT that win was swiftly swept under the rug and he was stripped of the title due to a referee error. Eventually it didn't matter because he never showed up on Nitro with the belt. These guys were putting on great matches, but were never the stars of Nitro and therefore I don't think it really hurt WCW. This is mainly because I don't believe WCW were ever going to push them... not even the newly crowned Champ Beniot - he was probably the transition to get the belt on Russo's best friend Jarrett. Which eventually happened when Russo returned with the New Blood storyline.
 

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Kowalski's Killer said:
I was team WWF all the way to the point where if Raw was preempted I still wouldn't watch Nitro.

The way I felt about it could best be described as the feeling you get when your favorite sports team signs a megastar away from their rivals. Jericho and the Radicalz coming over would be like(for me at least) the Boston Red Sox signing Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Mike Mussina and Jorge Posada when they were all in their prime away from the New York Yankees. Sure I'd seen them a million times before, but now they're playing for the home team.
Great analogy! I was excited about the WCW talent coming over and getting a chance to shine on the WWF stage. One reason that Owen's passing sucked. There could've been great matches involving him, Jericho and the Radicalz.
 

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Pffttt... It can be argued that no one noticed when Jericho left. He had a following, but The Rock was right. While the Rock was winning Championships, Jericho was getting beat by Juventud Guerrera. Jericho's debut was amazing and WWF did a great job of establishing him. However, due to the way he was booked in WCW, they didn't lose anything to their show.

When the Radicalz jumped, well the same can almost be said for them. Beniot had won the title, so losing him was a big deal - BUT that win was swiftly swept under the rug and he was stripped of the title due to a referee error. Eventually it didn't matter because he never showed up on Nitro with the belt. These guys were putting on great matches, but were never the stars of Nitro and therefore I don't think it really hurt WCW. This is mainly because I don't believe WCW were ever going to push them... not even the newly crowned Champ Beniot - he was probably the transition to get the belt on Russo's best friend Jarrett. Which eventually happened when Russo returned with the New Blood storyline.
The reasoning for that was, in the event Benoit has a change of heart, they can ignore it. If he doesn't, they have an out. I remember Sullivan saying he specifically told Sid to get his foot under the bottom rope in case Benoit walked out.

As far as their future goes, I'm optimistic with them under Russo, based on the excitement Saturn & Eddie expressed in shoot interviews when he came in, as they credited him with giving them a chance. I do recall (and something that tends to go unnoticed) Benoit becoming more prominent once Russo came in, as he went from being in a mid card feud with Malenko to a main event title match a month later. And this is the period where Russo is easing back the old guard and pushing younger talent. So, if he doesn't lose the book or isn't constantly being undermined by Sullivan & Graham, they had the potential to get more in the next 12 months than what they got in that same window in the WWF, based on what was already being done, as well as Bill Busch's desire to put the belt on Benoit (although the reasoning could be questioned).

The way their departures hurt WCW was in that they were the workhorses. Aside from maybe Rey, there was no one else in that company that would go out every night and work as hard as those four, in an attempt to prove they deserved more. From a product standpoint, when you've conditioned the fans for the past four years that at least one of these guys is guaranteed to tear the house down every time they work and you suddenly no longer have that, it's going to hurt. Maybe not to the extent of being catastrophic but it's certainly a noticeable change.

At the very least, it hurt WCW more than it helped WWF because, let's be honest, they didn't need any of them.
 

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I watched WCW before and was plenty familiar with Benoit, Jericho etc, but it was definitely still exciting seeing them come over. Part of the appeal beyond just the potential match ups, was the idea that these guys were gonna be given the spotlight they deserved in the WWF and wouldnt be in Hogans et al's shadow (Of course it didnt necessarily turn out that way for all of them in the end)

On a personal level, the Radicalz arrival was one of the biggest nails in the coffin for WCW as far as my interest went. The WWF had already been delivering better "moments" and storylines for a while at that point but WCW had still had the better midcard and better in ring action thanks in large part to those four. Jericho leaving had already been a huge blow and once those 4 were gone too that was it, the WWF was then doing EVERYTHING much better than WCW, and it stayed that way to the end of the MNWs.

What makes 2000 WWF so great is how compared to previous AE years the roster had way more depth and the in ring work was more consistently good across the card. The influx of WCW and ECW talent played a major role in that obviously.
I think the WWF had a better mid-card before those guys came along. The WWF mid-carders had great characters like X-Pac, who was the most popular member of DX at the time and he was Rock's first PPV title defense after Survivor Series at Capital Carnage, Val Venis, New Age Outlaws, Goldust, "The Black Hart/Nation" Owen Hart, Ken Shamrock, Al Snow, "Don't Piss Me Off" Jeff Jarrett, Taka Michinoku showed he had a funny side to him in Kaientai, The Brood, The Godfather, Marc Mero, Big Bossman etc. Those guys in WCW were great but can you really say they were a better mid-card division just based on them being workhorses and putting on good matches cause that was the only thing most of them had going for them. When Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn and Malenko arrived, only Benoit and Guerrero got over and I would say they got over more on their characters than their ring work, Guerrero with his comic side and relationship with Chyna, Benoit with his viciousness and aggressiveness turned up more. Even in 2000, people really didn't care about ring work. Besides it's not like those previous AE mid-card guys couldn't go in the ring and deliver good matches. Recently I watched some Attitude Era shows back from those years and watched a bunch of good matches from the mid-card division like X-Pac vs. D-Lo, D-Lo vs. Venis, Owen vs. X-Pac, X-Pac vs. Jarrett, Owen vs. Edge, Taka vs. Christian, Snow and Scorpio vs. Too Much, Snow vs. Mero, Shamrock vs. Rock, Shamrock vs. Mankind, Shamrock vs. Owen, Owen vs. Triple H, Bradshaw vs. Vader, Snow vs. Bossman etc. Could go on really. The Radicalz did make great additions to the mid-card division but I think the mid-card division was great as it was already and the WWF would've beat WCW without them or not cause they just had a better, more hungry, more motivated, more co-existing team than WCW.

The reasoning for that was, in the event Benoit has a change of heart, they can ignore it. If he doesn't, they have an out. I remember Sullivan saying he specifically told Sid to get his foot under the bottom rope in case Benoit walked out.

As far as their future goes, I'm optimistic with them under Russo, based on the excitement Saturn & Eddie expressed in shoot interviews when he came in, as they credited him with giving them a chance. I do recall (and something that tends to go unnoticed) Benoit becoming more prominent once Russo came in, as he went from being in a mid card feud with Malenko to a main event title match a month later. And this is the period where Russo is easing back the old guard and pushing younger talent. So, if he doesn't lose the book or isn't constantly being undermined by Sullivan & Graham, they had the potential to get more in the next 12 months than what they got in that same window in the WWF, based on what was already being done, as well as Bill Busch's desire to put the belt on Benoit (although the reasoning could be questioned).

The way their departures hurt WCW was in that they were the workhorses. Aside from maybe Rey, there was no one else in that company that would go out every night and work as hard as those four, in an attempt to prove they deserved more. From a product standpoint, when you've conditioned the fans for the past four years that at least one of these guys is guaranteed to tear the house down every time they work and you suddenly no longer have that, it's going to hurt. Maybe not to the extent of being catastrophic but it's certainly a noticeable change.

At the very least, it hurt WCW more than it helped WWF because, let's be honest, they didn't need any of them.
I dunno, I've heard Mike Graham in a shoot interview talk about how he was handed the minute to minute ratings for their shows and he said the viewers would flip to another station when Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn, Malenko would come on but viewers would stay for the main event guys like Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Sting etc. They were great workhorses but it sounds like their departures really didn't hurt the product at all especially workrate-wise. I just don't think people really cared about ring work back then like they do now.
 

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I dunno, I've heard Mike Graham in a shoot interview talk about how he was handed the minute to minute ratings for their shows and he said the viewers would flip to another station when Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn, Malenko would come on but viewers would stay for the main event guys like Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Sting etc. They were great workhorses but it sounds like their departures really didn't hurt the product at all especially workrate-wise. I just don't think people really cared about ring work back then like they do now.
I can believe that...if it came from anybody but Mike Graham.

Because based on everything he said about them, I don't put it past him (more than Sullivan) that he would purposefully present them in a way to prompt viewers to change the channel, as a way of proving "they can't draw a dime", which is along the lines of what Saturn & Eddie have said.


I do recall Sullivan mentioning in an interview that when they left, he knew they were in trouble because they were the workhorses. I'm not saying people cared about ring work then as much as they do now but that doesn't mean they didn't care at all. The fact that those guys ever got over in WCW indicates there was interest in that aspect of the product. My point is, for fans that had become conditioned to expect that, it's a noticeable void left when it's no longer available.
 

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I hated when these guys started coming over to WWF. It was really Jericho showing up that killed WWF for me and I stopped watching wrestling right around that point. I was just never a fan, didn't find him very likable.

But watching now so many years later, I think its really cool seeing those guys come over into WWF. Making the roster even more stacked.

It was just difficult for me at the time of it happening.
 

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I was team WWF all the way to the point where if Raw was preempted I still wouldn't watch Nitro.

The way I felt about it could best be described as the feeling you get when your favorite sports team signs a megastar away from their rivals. Jericho and the Radicalz coming over would be like(for me at least) the Boston Red Sox signing Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams, Mike Mussina and Jorge Posada when they were all in their prime away from the New York Yankees. Sure I'd seen them a million times before, but now they're playing for the home team.
Everything you said applies to me, except I'm a Yankee fan so it would be like the Yankees signing Manny, Ortiz, Padroia, Varitek, and Schilling lol
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I don't like that Jeter, Rivera Yankee analogy at all. I get what you mean but in no way was Y2J and those midcard guys going to WWF as big if Jeter signing with Boston, I'd say the WCW's equivalent to the Yankees losing Jeter, MO, Posada etc to Boston, would be like DDP, Sting, Goldberg hopping over to the WWF if you wanna look at it that way.

More, I'd say Jericho was like David Wells going to Boston in 2005. Kind of pissed you off he'd wind up there because he was liked as a Yankee (PG in 98) but not that big of a deal.
 

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I think when the Radicalz came to the WWF in 2000 that was the final nail in the WCW coffin. Jericho jumping was big too but not as big as 4 of WCW's biggest assets going at 1 time.
 
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