Was pairing up with Cesaro a bad move for Swagger?

5076 Views 80 Replies 37 Participants Last post by combolock, Apr 6, 2014

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Discussion Starter · Apr 3, 2014

It might be to early to tell, but I'm gonna have to say in the long run yes. After they disband it will be clearer to tell, but I really don't think their pairing has benefitted him and his career. Now, if they had had the tag titles I would say yes, especially if it was a successful and exciting reign, but we're obviously not getting that.

Another thing I'd like to point out is what happens after the Real Americans disband. It's obvious Cesaro is the more over and popular of the two both with the fans and the WWE, but logic would tell us that a Cesaro vs Swagger feud could be amazing to see in the ring. However, I seriously doubt the WWE has any intention of really letting these two go at each other. Which goes to my next point, I think it's very possible that Swagger could end up at the bottom of the card after Cesaro squashes him. Which, obviously, is not good.

Initially and even now I enjoy them as a team and they've exceeded my expectations, even if the RAs will never be properly utilized. However, I think it could prove to be the nail in the coffin of Swagger's relevance/career at this point. Cesaro's basically, in my eyes, sucked any possibility out of Swagger really getting anything thrown to him in the future (although it's obviously not on the fault of Cesaro whatsoever). This isn't to say I don't like or enjoy Cesaro, I do as much as any member of the IWC, but it's obvious who I like and value more.

So what about you guys? How do you think Cesaro's influence has/will affect Swagger's career? What's next for Swagger? What's next for Cesaro? Has Swagger benefited or suffered because of Cesaro?

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Discussion Starter · #4 · Apr 3, 2014

Jmacz said:
I think Swagger was dead in the water anyways. He failed to get much of a reaction after his push last year, I doubt that they have much confidence in him now.

His only hope now is that they let him continue to pair with Zeb, but something tells me he'll jump ship with Cesaro when they break up. Not hating, just being honest.

I do agree he wasn't doing much of anything, but in the same light he was still getting the proper boos and whatnot and yes, even We the People chants (they obviously weren't as vocal as they are now, but they did exist before Cesaro. I could find examples if people are interested).
Hopefully he does remain with Zeb, but if Colter decides to go back in retirement he might have to change his gimmick a little.

Catsaregreat said:
Yup it saved his career. Swagger is a bum who would be dancing with Emma and Santino if it wasn't for Zeb and Cesaro.

Highly doubt they'd ever put him in that dumb of a gimmick. No offense to Santino or Emma, but he's light years ahead of them in ring skill. The WWE would never waste him that badly.

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Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 3, 2014

Z. Kusano said:
They needed something consistent for Cesaro to develop. Look at it this way, a lot of the big stars over the years had tag team runs before hitting the big time

While obviously Cesaro's gonna be a big star (hopefully). I'd be even more pissed about Swagger's mistreatment in the RAs if Cesaro DOESN'T have a big push/career because it means Swagger's burial was pointless.

El Capitano said:
Not really, Swagger suffered from getting the DUI before Wrestlemania. However, teaming up with Cesaro allowed him to be apart of a great team that was never allowed to show their potential to be tag team champions. There is nothing wrong with him stepping aside and allowing Cesaro to move up the card. The one thing that is good is it will give him something interesting to do feuding with Cesaro otherwise he would just be floating around in midcard hell like the rest of the midcard

Except the RAs will get the Rhodes Scholars treatment and we'll never see a decent feud between them. Seriously, when was the last time a tag team disbanded and a good feud resulted? Don't worry, I'll wait. The fact the WWE doesn't value or ever properly use Swagger and the fact they can forever hang his DUI over his head further proves he won't benefit from their feud in any shape or form. It'll be a squash match on RAW at best.

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Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 3, 2014

Kaze Ni Nare said:
At least he gets to be a part of something at the moment, no knock on Swagger because he's good in the ring but pretty bland compared to what the WWE seems to be looking for. They've misused more talented guys in the past so this isn't too bad for Swagger at the moment. Swagger's one of those guys that will never be huge in a place like WWE were ring skill & technical prowess are not a high priority.

I've talked to multiple people on different sites/threads/forums and many have said he would have been better off working for a Japanese promotion. I don't know if that's true or not, though, because I'm not sure what Japanese promotions look for in talent.

Y'know, I get he's never gonna be big which is fine with me, but it's the fact that it seems like after the RAs his only purpose will be jobbing and it's annoying as heck.

Vic Capri said:
I don't think so. This is the only time Swagger will be cheered in his career so he might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

- Vic

It's not him being cheered, save for the Royal Rumble, it's Cesaro mainly. Curious to see if people will still chant "We the People" when he's on his own or not.

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Discussion Starter · #16 · Apr 3, 2014

swagger_ROCKS said:
No, this is the best thing for the both of them. No matter how you slice it (and I'm a HUGE fan) Swagger was messing up a bit when he got his HUGE push for his career. he got the DUI, and he accidentally kicked Ziggler in the front of his face with the end of his boot and caused WWE to lose out on a classic for ER.

For Cesaro and Swagger as a team have probably had the greatest IN ring year in 2013. Both wrestle better matches solo, but both have helped each other a lot this year, Cesaro more so because he's really getting over.

I'm not doubting that they've certainly done the best, if not better, with their tag team than anyone expected. Swagger's gimmick helped Cesaro to actually matter immensely, and Cesaro has helped said gimmick get over with the crowd.

I'm thinking of more in the sense of the long run if this team will hurt Swagger's career or not. I should've been more specific, tbh.

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Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 3, 2014

Bad News Ambrose said:
Nope, it was actually one of the best things for Swagger, it kept him from being irrelevant. It is just a shame that the RAs never got the tag team titles.

You hate Swagger so I assume you'd be just as content with Cesaro getting a bigger single's title once they disband.

Let's be real here, majority of people don't give a damn about the Real Americans, they like Cesaro's swing and Zeb's mic skills.

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Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 3, 2014

Bad News Ambrose said:
That does leave one to worry about what will happen to Swagger once the RAs disband and they decide not to pair him with Zeb.

He's getting buried after they disband either way, so he'll end up a heel Ryder or on the same level as someone like Sandow is, I'd imagine. Lol, still don't get why you care.

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Discussion Starter · #23 · Apr 3, 2014 (Edited)

Jmacz said:
I remember him getting cheer's, but that could also be because Del Rio was getting just as bad if not worse reactions than Swagger but we will never know.

I just see him staying in the midcard for the rest of his career. Will always be the heel that takes pins in #1 contenders matches and stuff like that. If they split the titles I could see him maybe feuding with a face over the title again.

It's a shame he didn't get over with Zeb as a heel initially. I thought that was a really good gimmick.

He did get over as a heel, lol. I don't get WHERE you guys are getting that he didn't get reactions, he DID. Sure, he didn't get face reactions as a heel like Cesaro is now, but it's not like he came out to crickets or something.

He's OBVIOUSLY getting heel reactions there, as he should have been.

However, the only realistic thing I hope he can eventually get out of his career is a face turn. I'm purely curious as to how the crowd would react and how Swagger would go about it. Imho, he's a natural face, I have no idea why he's always been booked as a heel save for the fact he has an asshole-ish jock look to him.

New World Order. said:
I seriously think Swagger was lucky to be tagging with Cesaro and at least apart of something. If he wasn't, he would be thrown to the side like 90% of the guys in the battle royal are. Being on a legitimate tag team is a better spot than most imo.

In theory, maybe, but in practice the RAs are on the pre-show, Swagger will no doubt be the one pinned, and if there is any storyline development we can be positive it will be at the expense of Swagger for the sake of Cesaro's push.

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Discussion Starter · #27 · Apr 3, 2014

Scotty Cuzz said:
I don't think it was necessarily a bad move for Swagger because I doubt he would've gone anywhere as a singles competitor anyway. He may have had a meaningless IC championship run (although I seriously doubt it and I'm being optimistic on that one), but he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the WHC, especially once they gave the belt to Cena back in October.

He may have had a chance when he first came back with Zeb back in Febraury, but then he fucked himself over with the drug charge anyway. Tbh, I think pairing up with Cesaro had more potential for him than staying a singles competitor because he and Cesaro work well off of each other and Swagger's athleticism and ability really shine when he was tagging. These guys shoud've got a nice tag team run.

Which is where my problem is. In the long run, I think it's very possible that Swagger will suffer more from being in the tag team then he has benefitted. If they would have had a tag title run it would have been something, or even a decent feud after the disbandment, but we'll see neither. So, will it be worth it in the end? I seriously doubt it.

swagger_ROCKS said:
Well, I've said it before, but I'm pretty sure WWE can rely on Swagger to put on a good solo match with someone, like he was doing in 2012 and 2011. If they ever book the US or IC title nice again, he can probably have some angles there. Long run, I think more people have grown to appreciate Swagger in the ring more, in 2013.

When they wanted to test DB's aggression, this happened.

And just being a good in ring opponent for stars

I agree with every point except your last one. People don't appreciate Swagger anymore than they did in 2012 or prior. If anything, he's been limited in the ring so he doesn't outshine Cesaro, which is why RAW surprised me because he looked good, but was pinned in the end anyways.

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Discussion Starter · #29 · Apr 3, 2014

Scotty Cuzz said:
I think he'll be pretty much in the same position once they break up as he would've been as a singles competitor. It's a shame because Zeb does a hell of a job as a mouth piece, but the crowd really doesn't seem to gravitate toward Swagger alone. Maybe it's the lisp, maybe it's the fact that he's a huge muscular guy with great wrestling ability, maybe it's just that they book him like shit. I don't know what it is, but I think he would've gotten lost in the card in the meantime just like every other midcarder has since Mania 29.

I honestly think it's a combination of everything you listed, tbh. Of course he would have lost, but I almost wish he could have had another stand off with Rusev at the Battle Royal to set up an eventual feud for them (man do I want this feud) instead of him being shoved into a crappy multiman tag where he'll get no good spots and eat the pin.

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Discussion Starter · #31 · Apr 3, 2014

KuroNeko said:
He'll be in the position that Kofi, Sandow, Titus are in. Not a jobber but not really midcard either, he'll be there to get squashed by faces and vice versa with no storyline or anything.

Basically, he'll move into what I call the "Filler-Card".

Which sucks. You already know how much I despise WWE's midcard and lower booking.

Personally I think it would be cool if Cesaro won the IC title and Swagger the US title and compete in singles matches while remaining a team. They could talk about how they're the champions of the Unites Stated and Everywhere else.

That would be awesome, imho. But we all know the WWE will never let Swagger hold a single's title again. Heck, they won't even let him get a tag title reign with one of the most over guys right now!

I hope Swagger doesn't get down to Sandow level...it's one thing to lose, it's another to be humiliated in stupid segments.

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Discussion Starter · #33 · Apr 3, 2014

Arrogantly Grateful said:
Actually, you'll be surprised in regards to Santino and Emma, Emma of course is in very early days of her career but seems to have a pretty good rep for her ring work from NXT and before so, Santino however is actually a really good wrestler shadowed by a silly gimmick (kinda the same thing that happened to The Mountie).

Look at Santino here, he's real good.

Although I do hear where you're coming from in regards to Swagger being in that gimmick, it's just that often really great wrestlers do get stuck with these gimmicks and it does over shadow their wrestling skill, as people don't take the gimmick serious and they don't actually wrestler as a serious competitor the way they would say like Alexander Rusev with his gimmick.

Oh yes, I've heard of Santino's prowess and I know exactly what you mean. I should have been more clear about what I meant as in the fact Santino, with what his gimmick is, does not require impressive in ring ability. Swagger's entire presence and the first 5 or so years of his career was based around how good he is in the ring. Emma is pretty good as it comes to divas, but like you said she is early on in her career.

I just can't see Swagger ever being in a full on goofy/ridiculous gimmick unless he turns face and even then, I can't see them having him dance like an idiot and really appealing to little kids in the way Santino and Emma might.

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Discussion Starter · #37 · Apr 3, 2014 (Edited)

Rick_James said:
I honestly think the biggest nail was his DUI.... I do think the WWE should've given him a break considering how well the gimmick was going though, it appeared they were going full steam with everything and then he gets busted, if he didn't, I don't think he'd be tag teaming with Cesaro right now. That being said, Cesaro is definitely getting the spotlight, but Swagger's gimmick is one of the best on the show right now, it's going to get stale sooner or later though.

I agree that the DUI certainly has not helped, but I think WWE is just going to hang it over his head forever, literally. I have no doubt in my mind that's the reason he and Cesaro have not gotten a tag title reign regardless of how over their unit appears to be. I think that Cesaro overshadowing him so drastically, however, has killed any chance of him ever having a beneficial/relevant place on the roster for the rest of his career, though.

Kinda find it forever f'd up that this is his first and only legal offense and it will haunt his career forever and no one will let it go while you got dudes who have done roids and coke and who have failed the health examinations and everyone is hush hush over it because they worship said wrestlers.

KuroNeko said:
I could see it happening. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Swagger and Zeb turn into jokes like 3MB where people like Santino come out and make jokes, humiliate and squash them.

WWE has such a stacked midcard but they're too lazy to care about anything other than the Main Event scene.

fpalm
I wish you were wrong, but you're 100% right.

Pinyapplesuckas said:
this is his last or second to last chance in the wwe.

if whatever he does next(if even given the chance) doesnt amount to anything, i see him gone from the wwe. they've done as much as they could do with him and they are lucky that The Real Americans even took off with him as a member.

i like Jack to a degree, but theres just nothing about him that stands out and makes me want to invest in him every week

I partially blame the WWE for this, though. Crap booking really isn't gonna help a dude out, is it?

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Discussion Starter · #42 · Apr 4, 2014 (Edited)

ErickRowan_Fan said:
I reckon Swagger has picked up some intensity to his work from Cesaro so in the long run it will benefit him.

He might have a patriot gimmick run in the plans at some point which could be something that works out for him, so any experience he gains before being given another opportunity will help him make the most of it.

I really don't think in the long run it will benefit him, though. Crappy booking for the sake of Cesaro looking better and being overshadowing by him kills any credibility he had coming into the Real Americans. I don't know anyone who has come to like Swagger more since he joined the RAs. They just like the RAs for the sake of Cesaro.

Haidys said:
I vote Jack Thwagger as WOAT poster. Fucking embarrassing to even be on the same planet as this thickhead.

Yeah, you can shove your b/s where the sun doesn't shine. This thread is not for you and your whiny little attitude.

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Discussion Starter · #44 · Apr 4, 2014

The Rabid Wolverine said:
To me, Swagger is the PERFECT example of what is wrong with how WWE currently runs their business and promotes their wrestlers. I can guaruntee you, people back stage and in creative see him and say "he can't talk, he has no charisma, he isn't superstar material, blah blah blah" and all that other bullshit. What ever happened to doing your best to hide a performers flaws, and accentuating the positives? Swagger is one bad ass worker in the ring, and what's more, he just LOOKS like a fucking wrestler. He's not face of the company, WWE champ material, but that in no way means he's useless and can't contribute. He's the perfect guy to have in your mid to upper mid card putting on kick ass matches week in and week out. WWE was smart to pair him with Colter, as I have felt for a while all Swagger needed was a manager and a consistent mid card push to be successful.

Swagger fucked up early in the year last year. No question about it and I'm not excusing it. But to me, punishing a guy ON SCREEN for failings OFF SCREEN is the most asinine, bass ackwards way of running a business I've ever heard. In the NFL, if the starting Qb gets a DUI, does his coach bench him for the rest of the season? Helllll no. He pays his fine, maybe gets suspended a game or two if he's a second time offender, then moves on. That's how it should be in the WWE. If you fuck up off camera, you should get fined or if it's bad enough, suspended for however long. Burying a guy on camera for speaking his mind or getting a DUI is just so stupid, it hurts the fans and it hurts the product. The other problem Is, if Cena ever got a DUI, would he get buried on camera? No way in hell. Their enforcement of their ridiculous policies is based only on how much management likes you.

Getting back to your main topic, I think the RA's have been great for both Swagger AND Cesaro. I don't feel when the RA's break up that it will have any impact whatsoever on how Swagger will be used going forward. It's just entirely up to management and what plans they have for him. Swagger has done everything he possibly could to make this team a success. If there is even an ounce of common sense left in Vince's head (which I'm starting to doubt) he will have to see Swagger has overachieved this past year since getting into trouble.

If I were management going forward, I'd break the RA's up whenever they decide the time is right, have a good feud between Swagger and Cesaro over two PPV's with Cesaro going over as the up and coming face, and then have Swagger stay heel, stay with Coulter, keep his "Real American" gimmick going, and have him be my IC champ. That's the best role for him, keep him on television defending the title 2-3 times a month, and use him to get the other faces ready for the top of the card (like say, Roman Reigns?)

Those are my thoughts.

Wish I could add into this, but I can't. This is a perfect post. Especially love your point on the fact Swagger is being punished beyond what's necessary. And man, a legit feud between he and Cesaro would be A+.

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Discussion Starter · #46 · Apr 4, 2014

NJ88 said:
It's hard to tell to be honest.

What was Swagger doing before The Real American's, he was with Colter, but I don't remember him doing much of...anything. Pairing up with Cesaro got them both a bit of attention and now they're one of the most entertaining parts of RAW or Smackdown, they win a fair bit too. I think as a tag team they still have some miles to go, I would love to see them win the tag titles and have a run with them at least before disbanding.

When they split it's a little more difficult. Being WITH Cesaro is benefitting him right now, but Swagger may become even more lost once they split. I assume Cesaro will turn face and end up getting the push out of the tag team which may render Swagger lower down the card than he was before they teamed. On the other hand, another heel singles role might be good for Swagger and they might give him (along with Cesaro) another shot.

This is legitimately my main concern. It literally doesn't seem feasible, with the way WWE has always booked Swagger and their incompetence with other talent, I really think in the long run this will just screw him over. Who cares about a decent tag team he was in for 8 months when he's a jobber for the next 2 or 3 years?

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Discussion Starter · #52 · Apr 4, 2014

youmakemeleery said:
The only reason anyone seems to care about the Real Americans right now is because of how boss Cesaro is. Swagger will go back to being the ultimate jobber once Cesaro drops the deadweight.

Cesaro could be a great face, but I would be excited to see him become the next Paul Heyman guy. That would make my fucking day.

I am not trying to be a dick to swagger, but the the fact Cesaro is getting them over shows me why he is the future and Swagger is not. Alot of times they will put guys who want to be top stars into crappy pairings like this to see if they can still get it done even in a bad situation. I think of the random pairings of Daniel Bryan and Kane, Punk and Kofi.

Anyway, to answer OP's question, this was not a bad move for Swagger, because Swagger was already going no where. This pairing has gotten him some attention and he will always have been part of Real Americans, but sadly, he will never be remembered.Some people just aren't capable of being WWE main eventers and Jack Swagger is one of them.

I get your point, but yeah you're being a dick to Swagger, point blank, lol.

You're insinuating the Cesaro is talent and Swagger is not, which is, well wrong. I appreciate your input anyways.

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Discussion Starter · #54 · Apr 4, 2014 (Edited)

Mr Shadow said:
Nope, nobody gives a shit about Swagger.Swagger is even lucky to be paied up with Zeb Colter.Otherwise,his boring,generic ass would be jobbing or working in some local high school gym while flipping burgers on the side

Nobody gives a shit about Swagger? So I'm not a real person, lol?

Boring? Debatable.

Generic? Show me another 6'7 guy on the roster with his build that can move as quickly as he can, has his mat wrestling skills, and is able to work a good match with individuals of any size or style. I'll wait.

Flipping burgers on the side and working at a high school? Hardly, he has a degree in business and already had a job lined up to work for an insurance company in Texas before he signed with the WWE.

Swagger was paired with Zeb from the bat because he has potential and, even now, the WWE values him. I'd say that's a pretty good thing, especially considering Cesaro getting paired with Zeb was a fluke because, low and behold, the WWE had no plans or desire to use Cesaro for anything important.

You can, y'know, add in your opinion without adding in flat out false filter comments.

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Discussion Starter · #56 · Apr 4, 2014

Rick_James said:
People hate on Swagger but I personally enjoy the guy when he's not given the jobber treatment. I think his gimmick was *way* too close to Kurt Angle's, but ever since he had the revamp he's been a lot more interesting. If they ever try the face turn idea with these guys, the Hogan one that I always mention lol, I think they'd be quite popular.

Dude, I'd be all for the face turn you've suggest. It's dream booking, though, the WWE would never do it. There's nothing wrong with having a patriotic gimmick. Besides, fools don't even like Swagger so it doesn't matter whether his gimmick is similar to Angle's or not, they'll boo and hate on him regardless.

He legitimately can shine when he's given proper treatment, I mean his ECW matches were amazing and his return matches in 2013 were phenomenal. I'd have to say, though, crappy booking aside he's stepped his game up the past couple months, even if he's limited due to Cesaro's push. I still can't get over his EC match with Big E, especially the Hogan big boot/leg drop. :mark:

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Discussion Starter · #59 · Apr 4, 2014 (Edited)

Mr Shadow said:
1.Actually no one cared for Swagger why do u think they paied him up with an old man for?Before that, he wasnt since Brodus Clay squashed him xD

2.Boring, Hella boring. No Charisma,NO personality,Looks like a retard,stuuters,Looks like an orge in the ring,boring matches.

3.He's 6'4 not 6'7..Drew Mcintyre would wrestle circles around this jobber.NOBODY has a physique like Drew. When I see Swagger leap on top rope or do a suicide plunge off the 3rd rope, then I would be impresses..

1. No, I like him. Other people like him. Even if one person likes him, someone cares for him, so you're wrong.

2. Has a personality, every human being does. He doesn't look retarded, he looks like a person, he doesn't stutter, he has a lisp.

3. You just tried to say Drew Mcintyre is better than Swagger, your opinion is irrelevant.

Also, lmfao, Swagger's mugshot is good for something

He's exactly 2.00 M which is closer to 6'6 than 6'4. Also, Mcintyre is not 6'7 himself. If anything, he and Swagger are the same height. Bro, please stop being so wrong, it's embarrassing.

Pappa Bacon said:
People are short selling Swagger here. Guy can work, is a legit powerhouse. He is the perfect guy for a manager. He should reform a new Varsity Club when he splits with Cesaro. Swagger has an aura of this guy is legit in the ring. He's not super charismatic but you can look at him and tell he can fuck shit up. They need to allow him to use more suplexes. Real Americans has done two things, it kept Jack on TV with something the fans tuned into after his bust and drop in the card, as well as elevating Cesaro.

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I especially like your point about him being perfect for a manager. The fact he's managed to stay relatively relevant for so long without one is testament to the fact his mic skills are not THAT bad and his character was good enough for at least a midcard. And I agree, let him show off more of his powerhouse abilities along with his grappling. Just cause he has freakishly long arms doesn't mean that's all he's good for. That's my one hope with the RAs disbanding, he'll actually, y'know...be able to do more in the ring without having to be a safety cushion for Cesaro.

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