Wrestling Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Joined
·
1,948 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I heard that Vince denued this.

But I remember @validreasoning mentioned once that WM26 low buyrate was because of UFC having a big ppv before WM26.

So was there a competition between the two in terms of business standpoint? If yes then who was winning during this competition?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
I dont see how. Its apples and oranges. Maybe to the young impressionable mind that doesn't know wrestling isn't real yet.

But I dont see how someone that wants to watch wrestling would change their mind because a UFC event is on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,409 Posts
I dont see how. Its apples and oranges. Maybe to the young impressionable mind that doesn't know wrestling isn't real yet.

But I dont see how someone that wants to watch wrestling would change their mind because a UFC event is on.
There is a finite amount of people who will attend live UFC and WWE events and buy their shows on ppv. No question there was crossover between the groups.

Wrestlemania 26 was brought up and yes no question UFC show hurt it. UFC 111 headlined by GSP aired the night before Wrestlemania 26. According to Meltzer Wrestlemania had the lowest number of ppv buys in years in Canada for that event even despite Bret's return.

If you have a choice between two shows that cost $50-60 it's unlikely most homes buy both and probably every pro wrestling fan in Canada had some passing interest in GSP.
 

·
Used to be a Dreamer, Dreamin' of a Fire
Joined
·
6,183 Posts
Vince can deny it all he wants, UFC/MMA was probably the biggest reason WWE started targeting younger audiences (Not Linda's senate run, that just had good timing) because WWEs old bread and butter demo of 18+ males was being wholesale siphoned off by MMA. So yes there was competition. A lot of people note that WWEs spectacular fall in the early 2000s coincided with an MMA boom

Look at WWEs presentation of Brock, Ronda and Shayna and that should tell you all you need to know. Vince considers MMA to almost always be a bigger draw than wrestling

They're all "fight promotions". Trying to sell people on the same premise of hand to hand combat as entertaining competition. So yeah, while one is fake and one is real, there's still going to be competition
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,409 Posts
Vince can deny it all he wants, UFC/MMA was probably the biggest reason WWE started targeting younger audiences (Not Linda's senate run, that just had good timing) because WWEs old bread and butter demo of 18+ males was being wholesale siphoned off by MMA.
Agree this was one of the reasons. Many though.

So yes there was competition. A lot of people note that WWEs spectacular fall in the early 2000s coincided with an MMA boom
WWEs fall off in popularity was mid 2001 till 2004 before UFC starting getting hot in 2005 so I wouldn't say they are connected.

If WWE had continued on the 2001-04 path though in 2005-09 I can't imagine where WWE would be now. UFC would have ground them to dust most likely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,848 Posts
On PPV sure due to them having more big stars they could turn to back in the day. On TV not at all they blow UFC out of the water on TV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,409 Posts
On PPV sure due to them having more big stars they could turn to back in the day. On TV not at all they blow UFC out of the water on TV.

Now but remember when tuf beat raw back in 2009.
I don’t know why, two completely different types of entertainment.
How. Both are going after 18-49 male demo, booking shows in same venues in same cities. Both offer their live product for sale over ppv now streaming services.

You have crossover of wrestlers joining mma ie Brock, lashley, punk, swagger and top mma fighters becoming pro wrestlers like cain, rousey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,848 Posts
Now but remember when tuf beat raw back in 2009.
Yeah but that's an anomaly and had everything to do with Kimbo who was an internet star and crossover star. But something like that is the exception and not the norm of UFC TV ratings before or after that season (really after Kimbo lost his fight on the season)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
Now but remember when tuf beat raw back in 2009.


How. Both are going after 18-49 male demo, booking shows in same venues in same cities. Both offer their live product for sale over ppv now streaming services.

You have crossover of wrestlers joining mma ie Brock, lashley, punk, swagger and top mma fighters becoming pro wrestlers like cain,Ones fake with characters and storylines. The other is real to see who the best fighter is. Two different types of entertainment.
Now but remember when tuf beat raw back in 2009.


How. Both are going after 18-49 male demo, booking shows in same venues in same cities. Both offer their live product for sale over ppv now streaming services.

You have crossover of wrestlers joining mma ie Brock, lashley, punk, swagger and top mma fighters becoming pro wrestlers like cain, rousey.

Ones fake with over the top Characters and Storylines. The other is real to see who the best fighter is. They’re nothing alike entertainment wise.
 

·
Nah, I’m your king now.
Joined
·
4,125 Posts
On PPV sure due to them having more big stars they could turn to back in the day. On TV not at all they blow UFC out of the water on TV.
You know, that's a wonderful observation.

I never looked at it from that angle but that's absolutely true. I prefer UFC now because of the WWE's shitty decisions but the UFC can't seem to strike it gold with television programming.
 

·
it's a tarp!
Joined
·
4,712 Posts
It's competition at the moment because ESPN and others are looking for content and the UFC can offer all it's past PPVs.

It's direct competition for talent as combat orientated athletes have a clear choice between the two.

It's competition for TV, as WWE only ever got on FOX because the UFC walked away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,848 Posts
You know, that's a wonderful observation.

I never looked at it from that angle but that's absolutely true. I prefer UFC now because of the WWE's shitty decisions but the UFC can't seem to strike it gold with television programming.
I think the problem TV wise compared to wrestling is just simply down to they clearly can't trout out the big names weekly like wrestling can. UFC fight night cards typically are headlined by their equivalent of midcarders. Which clearly has its limitations viewing wise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,502 Posts
As they’ve managed to steal the pro wrestling playbook and the pro wrestling presentation, all while maintain that they’re real fighting and are appealing to adults and teenagers alike, I’d say yes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,688 Posts
It was their biggest competition for years, even if it was indirect competition. Why do you think they jumped on the first chance to sign Brock back when the opportunity became available? Most late 90's-early 00's fans of ECW eventually went to UFC/MMA, even the majority of the Attitude Era fans i'd say liked the concept of authenticity so that is why they went with UFC. Vince McMahon had the chance to buy StrikeForce and then shot the idea down because he thought MMA was a fad. The very same company that emerged from Boxing, thought that MMA was going to be a fad. You have to keep in mind that Jesse McMahon was originally a boxing promoter and noticed the emerging popularity of Wrestling back then so he switched gears. Had WWE gone into MMA it could have been viewed as fake, while ignoring the fact that several UFC fighters easily get pushed through the ranks such as Brock Lesnar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
Yes. MMA, especially UFC, is competition to WWE. Both are entertainment for many of the same demographics. It isn't about MMA and WWE being the same or not. Both show interesting characters who fight each other, with one being more real than the other.

Two questions... If it weren't for our current situation with COVID-19 would you want to watch Wrestlemania? If you could only watch one: Wrestlemania 36 or UFC 249 with Kabib Normangondov vs Tony Ferguson, which would you choose?
If the answers are Yes and UFC 249... then WWE and MMA are in competition.
 

·
rasslin
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
It was but UFC surpassed WWE long ago.

They are comparable in terms of demographics and how the events are presented. Both companies rely on compelling story lines and characters.


The only difference is UFC is real and WWE is fake. UFC has better characters and a better product because its legit fighting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,359 Posts
There's definitely crossover. At its core, both UFC/MMA and WWE are about the same thing, settling a conflict with a competition involving physical violence. It just so happens that one is scripted and the other is not.

It absolutely holds true for me. The first UFC event I ever saw was UFC 40, headlined by Ken Shamrock fighting Tito Ortiz. I knew Shamrock from his WWF days, so curiosity made me tune in. Later, I followed Brock Lesnar's career from WWE to the UFC. As for it being competition- I lost interest in WWE around 2009 because it got too lame and PG. So the money I used to spend on buying WWE PPVs, I was spending on UFC events instead.

One thing I've noticed, and it may not be a hard and fast rule, but true for the most part- wrestling fans are happy to acknowledge similarities and crossover between WWE and UFC. Hardcore MMA fans tend to lose their shit over it for whatever reason. Like, it's okay bro, we know the stuff in the Octagon is real and the stuff in the wrestling ring is fake. Chill a little.

I really enjoy both. Probably worth noting that the biggest star in MMA history- this is backed up by PPV numbers, so not fandom or recency bias- is Conor McGregor. He has all the highest selling PPVs in UFC history, except for one- UFC 100, which was headlined by, guess who, my buddy Brock Lesnar. McGregor's entire schtick is lifted from pro wrestling, even down to the way he walks. Prior to that, you had Chael Sonnen directly ripping off Superstar Billy Graham promos to drum up interest in his fight with Anderson Silva. And now we have more and more MMA fighters transitioning into pro wrestling, blurring those lines even more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,883 Posts
And yet, Vince won't listen to Shane back then, Shane had vision that UFC will become big hits and suggest his father to purchase or make investment but Vince think his product or his entertainment is still number one in USA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,409 Posts
And yet, Vince won't listen to Shane back then, Shane had vision that UFC will become big hits and suggest his father to purchase or make investment but Vince think his product or his entertainment is still number one in USA.
Two stories are muddled. Shane wanted to buy Pride circa 2005 which would have been complete waste of time. In 2009 Shane had talks about being a silent investor in UFC but nothing came of it. UFC was already huge with Lesnar as champion in 2009.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top