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Discussion Starter #1
When I think about wrestling from my childhood days, I immediately think of three organizations; three organizations that have disappeared; but yet are called upon today when the professional wrestling landscape looks grim. So what does that say about those three organizations - ECW, WCW and WWF? Professional wrestling was at it's peak during the era of these three companies because of competition between them. When one would raise the bar, the other had to follow suite or risk losing the ratings and subsequent failure. It was dog eat dog and we were the benefactors, us - the wrestling fans.

From reading this forum I'm surprised that so many people still debate over WWE when it is after all a glorified kids TV show today. There's much better wrestling out there to satisfy you besides World Wrestling Entertainment. They get most attention because it is the biggest mainstream wrestling promotion in the world. It was the first promotion I was exposed to on TV. I've been a wrestling fan for about 22 years and have followed countless promotions from all over the world. It amazes me that in 2010 people still debate over WWE when the simple fact is that WWE is not aimed at pro-wrestling fans. McMahon's multi-billion dollar company has far outgrown it's need to cater exclusively to us. We are not their target demographic anymore.

Vince is today, much more interested in catching the attention of the casual TV channel changer and the easily influenced and spell-bound child. The days of it being aimed exclusively at pro-wrestling fans is long gone. The last time he needed to cater to pro-wrestling fans exclusively and even listen a little to the opinions of pro-wrestling fans was back at the height of "The Monday Night Wars" when WWF had no choice but to give pro-wrestling fans what they wanted in order for the company to survive. With "The Monday Night Wars" won and no real competition on the same level, McMahon has changed his outlook and broadened his scope to other areas of the media. The core target audience for WWE today are those who like action movies and young kids (and their parents wallets). The pro-wrestling fan is now left out in the cold when it comes to WWE as it's not the primary emphasis of McMahon.

Pro-wrestling has become just one small part of the many parts the make up an "entertainment" show. The fact that people debate over how for example John Cena continually wins match after match is irrelevant. He is the Hulk Hogan of today. The mass media and entertainment world is now the focal point of WWE with pro-wrestling taking a back seat role. John Cena is the main strategy WWE has in their media/entertainment business model of today.

The WWE of today is not the WWF that a lot of us here grew up with and loved. The WWF, WCW and ECW are dead. Times have changed. Society has changed. World culture has changed. Peoples attitudes have changed. Big business has moved in. The corporate culture has, just like in many other facets of life, become the dominant force in the WWE today. WWE is now a stock market company and with that comes responsibility to shareholders and boards of management etc. To these people the bottom line is profit. So, today WWE views its wrestlers in terms of marketability and merchandising to the general public - a much larger audience and a much larger source of potential revenue than the smaller audience of purely pro-wrestling fans.

In the mainstream pro-wrestling industry today, pro-wrestling is not pro-wrestling anymore. Pro-wrestling is big business with a huge corporate model behind it. To view WWE in terms of pro-wrestling alone is not possible anymore. There are many more factors involved in decision making and storyline/angle booking than just merely pro-wrestling. To think of WWE as a pro-wrestling company anymore and to debate it in terms of pro-wrestling alone is redundant. There is a much bigger picture involved. Vince is an excellent business man, but he's killed professional wrestling and our love for what it once was. There is still pro-wrestling out there in the indies but the market is being flooded with WWE that we don't get to see them...and one wonders if the love for professional wrestling, the sport, has died because of WWE.

Paul Heyman said it so perfectly when he lashed out @ Vince McMahon on an episode of Smackdown during the alliance angle, so much so that I won't explain it here..instead I'll post it up for you to listen to the man himself. Perhaps it was a work, I'm almost sure it was but I have to applaud them for allowing Paulie to say the truth and he did, he said the truth while sticking to the angle. He really was a genius. Vince stole everyone else's ideas.


I just want to mention this last thing. I am not a mark of any company, but trust me, WWE watchers...you guys DO NOT want TNA to go away. If Impact folds, then you will be treated to even lower standards of programming. Competition is the only thing that can make this industry great because it's scripted.

I think Vince has become too powerful. Any competitors he has had he has run them out of business. From a business perspective he has excelled. It won't be long before he uses his muscle to do the same to TNA. I hope that TNA exist as a healthy competition that can only make the WWE better. In the coming years, a new challenger arises. Not from a professional wrestling standpoint but that of the Mixed Martial Arts. The UFC is destroying WWE in ratings and PPV buy-rates. I believe MMA are the only one's capable of running WWE out of business and for those that don't consider wrestling and MMA in competition, need only do some research to come to their own, intelligent, conclusion. ;)
 

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Won't read any of it - your title says it all. Vince McMahon made wrestling. Wrestling would still have been in bingo halls and backyards, or at its very pinnacle: at TNA's current level, had it not been for him.
 

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I didn't even read two sentences before deciding that you have no idea what you are on about and Vince McMahon infact made Wrestling.

Wrestling wouldn't have been on TV if it weren't for Vince & Andre ( I read in a book Andre came to him and told him about this idea for TV ) but overall Vince = Wrestling for the past three decades.
 

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DAVID OTUNGA's Personal Assistant
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oh cool, the weekly Vince McMahon destroyed all that is good thread.

i'll pass.
 

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These days I find beauty as depressing as years be
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When I think about wrestling from my childhood days, I immediately think of three organizations; three organizations that have disappeared; but yet are called upon today when the professional wrestling landscape looks grim. So what does that say about those three organizations - ECW, WCW and WWF? Professional wrestling was at it's peak during the era of these three companies because of competition between them. When one would raise the bar, the other had to follow suite or risk losing the ratings and subsequent failure. It was dog eat dog and we were the benefactors, us - the wrestling fans.

From reading this forum I'm surprised that so many people still debate over WWE when it is after all a glorified kids TV show today. There's much better wrestling out there to satisfy you besides World Wrestling Entertainment. They get most attention because it is the biggest mainstream wrestling promotion in the world. It was the first promotion I was exposed to on TV. I've been a wrestling fan for about 22 years and have followed countless promotions from all over the world. It amazes me that in 2010 people still debate over WWE when the simple fact is that WWE is not aimed at pro-wrestling fans. McMahon's multi-billion dollar company has far outgrown it's need to cater exclusively to us. We are not their target demographic anymore.

Vince is today, much more interested in catching the attention of the casual TV channel changer and the easily influenced and spell-bound child. The days of it being aimed exclusively at pro-wrestling fans is long gone. The last time he needed to cater to pro-wrestling fans exclusively and even listen a little to the opinions of pro-wrestling fans was back at the height of "The Monday Night Wars" when WWF had no choice but to give pro-wrestling fans what they wanted in order for the company to survive. With "The Monday Night Wars" won and no real competition on the same level, McMahon has changed his outlook and broadened his scope to other areas of the media. The core target audience for WWE today are those who like action movies and young kids (and their parents wallets). The pro-wrestling fan is now left out in the cold when it comes to WWE as it's not the primary emphasis of McMahon.

Pro-wrestling has become just one small part of the many parts the make up an "entertainment" show. The fact that people debate over how for example John Cena continually wins match after match is irrelevant. He is the Hulk Hogan of today. The mass media and entertainment world is now the focal point of WWE with pro-wrestling taking a back seat role. John Cena is the main strategy WWE has in their media/entertainment business model of today.

The WWE of today is not the WWF that a lot of us here grew up with and loved. The WWF, WCW and ECW are dead. Times have changed. Society has changed. World culture has changed. Peoples attitudes have changed. Big business has moved in. The corporate culture has, just like in many other facets of life, become the dominant force in the WWE today. WWE is now a stock market company and with that comes responsibility to shareholders and boards of management etc. To these people the bottom line is profit. So, today WWE views its wrestlers in terms of marketability and merchandising to the general public - a much larger audience and a much larger source of potential revenue than the smaller audience of purely pro-wrestling fans.

In the mainstream pro-wrestling industry today, pro-wrestling is not pro-wrestling anymore. Pro-wrestling is big business with a huge corporate model behind it. To view WWE in terms of pro-wrestling alone is not possible anymore. There are many more factors involved in decision making and storyline/angle booking than just merely pro-wrestling. To think of WWE as a pro-wrestling company anymore and to debate it in terms of pro-wrestling alone is redundant. There is a much bigger picture involved. Vince is an excellent business man, but he's killed professional wrestling and our love for what it once was. There is still pro-wrestling out there in the indies but the market is being flooded with WWE that we don't get to see them...and one wonders if the love for professional wrestling, the sport, has died because of WWE.

Paul Heyman said it so perfectly when he lashed out @ Vince McMahon on an episode of Smackdown during the alliance angle, so much so that I won't explain it here..instead I'll post it up for you to listen to the man himself. Perhaps it was a work, I'm almost sure it was but I have to applaud them for allowing Paulie to say the truth and he did, he said the truth while sticking to the angle. He really was a genius. Vince stole everyone else's ideas.


I just want to mention this last thing. I am not a mark of any company, but trust me, WWE watchers...you guys DO NOT want TNA to go away. If Impact folds, then you will be treated to even lower standards of programming. Competition is the only thing that can make this industry great because it's scripted.

I think Vince has become too powerful. Any competitors he has had he has run them out of business. From a business perspective he has excelled. It won't be long before he uses his muscle to do the same to TNA. I hope that TNA exist as a healthy competition that can only make the WWE better. In the coming years, a new challenger arises. Not from a professional wrestling standpoint but that of the Mixed Martial Arts. The UFC is destroying WWE in ratings and PPV buy-rates. I believe MMA are the only one's capable of running WWE out of business and for those that don't consider wrestling and MMA in competition, need only do some research to come to their own, intelligent, conclusion. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Vince McMahon didn't make wrestling, he STOLE every idea from other promoters, maybe if you read the actual OP and watched the vid, you'd understand what a tyrant he's been.
 

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Man Who's Got a Machine Gun
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Vince McMahon didn't make wrestling, he STOLE every idea from other promoters, maybe if you read the actual OP and watched the vid, you'd understand what a tyrant he's been.
He never stole any ideas. He gave those ideas better form and execution. Hardcore wrestling is known because of WWF, not ECW. ECW just get mentioned as the originators. He hasn't been a tyrant. He has been a good allocator. All those ideas would have been wasted, had he not applied them.
 

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What everyone else said. Without Vince, wrestling wouldn't have the exposure that it's enjoyed for nigh on 30 years. If you want an up-to-date example of the good McMahon does for wrestling, then look at one Bryan Danielson. Like many a real wrestler before him, working their asses off around the world and competing in the indies for rep and little more in terms of monetary gain, they now get to enjoy a very comfortable living. This is what encourages many more people to lace up their boots and bust their own ass in the ring.

To say wrestling is dead is to insult those very promotions that ARE still around, those that seemingly uphold the standards of the sport that you crave.

ROH
AJPW
NJPW
NOAH
Dragon Gate
EVOLVE

I could go on and on. Wrestling is alive. You just have to open your mind.
 

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Why do people act as if it's only WCW and ECW bought? Didn't he also buy out AWA, USWA and all those other territories?

Also I agree with everyone that Vince made wrestling what it is today.

The only thing Vince did to kill "wrestling" not the word wrestling i.e. the art of grappling, is the Attitude Era. I'm one of the few Attitude Era haters here, cause IMO every bad thing we see in wrestling today is as a result of the Attitude Era. But hey, Vince just moves with the times and it works. Despite me hating the brawlfests and over the top storylines of the Attitude Era there were guys like Angle, Benoit and Guerrero who made up for it with their wrestling skills.

Vince just moves with the times and people need to understand that. ECW=dead. WCW=dead. Attitude Era=dead. And if you can't understand that, just shut the fuck up. For those of us with quarter of a brain that suffers from alzheimer's, we understand that PG is the trend today and if you feel you're doing Vince so much by not watching, then go ahead. The truth is Vince doesn't give a fuck what you think. You're just one person.

The ignorant jackasses on this forum who don't want to accept the fact that the wrestling audience hasn't lost anything to MMA, should shut the hell up too. There was a report by Bryan Alvarez that simply states in 2000 RAW had 4.8 million viewers and in 2010 they have 4.6. Does that sound like a major jump to MMA, if they have jumped to MMA. Also 78% of the WWE audience is over 18, which is close to what the 18+ audience was back in Attitude Era. It frustrates me how people act as if only adults watched the Attitude Era. As if 100% of the audience was adults. I'm sure you had 80% adult audience back then.

MMA is like what boxing was in the 90s. People need to understand that people rather watch legit sports than fake sports. No one gives a fuck bout wrestling. If you wanna use the Attitude Era as proof that people once cared try again. Like I said read the report. Sure wrestling was featured everywhere back then, but isn't today as well? 7 eleven cups, Ziggler was on some show the other day, Cena at the KCA awards, Make A Wish.

I could go on and on, but I'm a user on this forum that's in the minority. I don't use immature excuses and bash everything a company does because it's cool or PG or whatever else people say on these damn boards.
 

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These days I find beauty as depressing as years be
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If it wasn't for Vince, the original ECW would have been long gone because you cant pay the bills with holy shit chants.
 

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Vince made wrestling.... then killed it

the problem is that vince should have took his money and went home in 2002, and leave it to someone who knows hat they are doing and would be more than happy to do his job
 

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What a fucking disappointment. I thought this was a thread about how Vince buttraped the territories. But instead its just another Killing WCW/ECW/Vince hates wrestling thread.

As for TNA. Competition is indeed good. And an alternative is needed. But if the alternative is TNA, a promotion 70 times worse than WWE and constantly rehashes old garbage, then maybe I dont want the alternative.
 

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When I think about wrestling from my childhood days, I immediately think of three organizations; three organizations that have disappeared; but yet are called upon today when the professional wrestling landscape looks grim. So what does that say about those three organizations - ECW, WCW and WWF? Professional wrestling was at it's peak during the era of these three companies because of competition between them. When one would raise the bar, the other had to follow suite or risk losing the ratings and subsequent failure. It was dog eat dog and we were the benefactors, us - the wrestling fans.

From reading this forum I'm surprised that so many people still debate over WWE when it is after all a glorified kids TV show today. There's much better wrestling out there to satisfy you besides World Wrestling Entertainment. They get most attention because it is the biggest mainstream wrestling promotion in the world. It was the first promotion I was exposed to on TV. I've been a wrestling fan for about 22 years and have followed countless promotions from all over the world. It amazes me that in 2010 people still debate over WWE when the simple fact is that WWE is not aimed at pro-wrestling fans. McMahon's multi-billion dollar company has far outgrown it's need to cater exclusively to us. We are not their target demographic anymore.

Vince is today, much more interested in catching the attention of the casual TV channel changer and the easily influenced and spell-bound child. The days of it being aimed exclusively at pro-wrestling fans is long gone. The last time he needed to cater to pro-wrestling fans exclusively and even listen a little to the opinions of pro-wrestling fans was back at the height of "The Monday Night Wars" when WWF had no choice but to give pro-wrestling fans what they wanted in order for the company to survive. With "The Monday Night Wars" won and no real competition on the same level, McMahon has changed his outlook and broadened his scope to other areas of the media. The core target audience for WWE today are those who like action movies and young kids (and their parents wallets). The pro-wrestling fan is now left out in the cold when it comes to WWE as it's not the primary emphasis of McMahon.

Pro-wrestling has become just one small part of the many parts the make up an "entertainment" show. The fact that people debate over how for example John Cena continually wins match after match is irrelevant. He is the Hulk Hogan of today. The mass media and entertainment world is now the focal point of WWE with pro-wrestling taking a back seat role. John Cena is the main strategy WWE has in their media/entertainment business model of today.

The WWE of today is not the WWF that a lot of us here grew up with and loved. The WWF, WCW and ECW are dead. Times have changed. Society has changed. World culture has changed. Peoples attitudes have changed. Big business has moved in. The corporate culture has, just like in many other facets of life, become the dominant force in the WWE today. WWE is now a stock market company and with that comes responsibility to shareholders and boards of management etc. To these people the bottom line is profit. So, today WWE views its wrestlers in terms of marketability and merchandising to the general public - a much larger audience and a much larger source of potential revenue than the smaller audience of purely pro-wrestling fans.

In the mainstream pro-wrestling industry today, pro-wrestling is not pro-wrestling anymore. Pro-wrestling is big business with a huge corporate model behind it. To view WWE in terms of pro-wrestling alone is not possible anymore. There are many more factors involved in decision making and storyline/angle booking than just merely pro-wrestling. To think of WWE as a pro-wrestling company anymore and to debate it in terms of pro-wrestling alone is redundant. There is a much bigger picture involved. Vince is an excellent business man, but he's killed professional wrestling and our love for what it once was. There is still pro-wrestling out there in the indies but the market is being flooded with WWE that we don't get to see them...and one wonders if the love for professional wrestling, the sport, has died because of WWE.

Paul Heyman said it so perfectly when he lashed out @ Vince McMahon on an episode of Smackdown during the alliance angle, so much so that I won't explain it here..instead I'll post it up for you to listen to the man himself. Perhaps it was a work, I'm almost sure it was but I have to applaud them for allowing Paulie to say the truth and he did, he said the truth while sticking to the angle. He really was a genius. Vince stole everyone else's ideas.


I just want to mention this last thing. I am not a mark of any company, but trust me, WWE watchers...you guys DO NOT want TNA to go away. If Impact folds, then you will be treated to even lower standards of programming. Competition is the only thing that can make this industry great because it's scripted.

I think Vince has become too powerful. Any competitors he has had he has run them out of business. From a business perspective he has excelled. It won't be long before he uses his muscle to do the same to TNA. I hope that TNA exist as a healthy competition that can only make the WWE better. In the coming years, a new challenger arises. Not from a professional wrestling standpoint but that of the Mixed Martial Arts. The UFC is destroying WWE in ratings and PPV buy-rates. I believe MMA are the only one's capable of running WWE out of business and for those that don't consider wrestling and MMA in competition, need only do some research to come to their own, intelligent, conclusion. ;)
:lmao: at you thinking impact is competition

and vince MADE pro wrestling.. idiot
 

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Vince made wrestling.... then killed it

the problem is that vince should have took his money and went home in 2002, and leave it to someone who knows hat they are doing and would be more than happy to do his job
I have to agree, he made wrestling, but then killed it. His drive for money has led to the downfall of wrestling, all he cares about is how much money is made, not what the product is like. If the kids are getting cena tshirts then thats job well done

The thing is I find it hard to hate the guy, as said he made it. He gave us years upon years of a great product, sadly that couldn't continue, but the peak of wrestling couldn't be possible without that man
 
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