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I watched Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin's match from King of the Ring 1997 on YouTube and found it hugely underwhelming.

I barely watch wrestling anymore, though, and when I do it's only old clips so maybe I'm unqualified to comment. Just thought I'd gauge other people's reactions to it.
 

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it's a tarp!
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I have my top seven all time favorite wrestlers pretty much fixed now.

But there was a time when Bret was my all time favorite wrestler.

Not that it matters to anyone, but I'm just saying.
 

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Bret and Davey Boy arguably had much better chemistry than Davey did with Shawn and it shows in the end results. That being said, there's guys Shawn worked with that had far better matches with him than Bret (most namely Scott Hall and Undertaker). A lot comes down to individual styles and storytelling and the aforementioned chemistry. And the reality is as much as their rivalry welcomes a comparison, they are just stylistically so different that each is going to be a better fit for certain opponents no matter what.
 

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Bret was a great wrestler and had lots of great matches against guys with different styles. His match against Austin at Mania 13 is my favorite of all time. There’s just one problem. While he was a big star internationally, he didn’t draw in the US. Because of that I don’t think he was a great champion. And now he comes across as a bit of a downer or just really full of himself.
 

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Bret and Davey Boy arguably had much better chemistry than Davey did with Shawn and it shows in the end results. That being said, there's guys Shawn worked with that had far better matches with him than Bret (most namely Scott Hall and Undertaker).
Undertaker for sure. Hall is an interesting one, since the two best HBK/Razor matches were both ladder matches. I actually really liked the two PPV Bret/Razor matches (at the 1993 Royal Rumble and King of the Ring), but I can't recall a traditional HBK/Razor match that was noteworthy. I think both had great chemistry with Hall.
 

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Undertaker for sure. Hall is an interesting one, since the two best HBK/Razor matches were both ladder matches. I actually really liked the two PPV Bret/Razor matches (at the 1993 Royal Rumble and King of the Ring), but I can't recall a traditional HBK/Razor match that was noteworthy. I think both had great chemistry with Hall.
Shawn and Razor's only PPV matches were ladder matches, so we don't have a ppv match between the two under normal rules to compare.
 

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Undertaker for sure. Hall is an interesting one, since the two best HBK/Razor matches were both ladder matches. I actually really liked the two PPV Bret/Razor matches (at the 1993 Royal Rumble and King of the Ring), but I can't recall a traditional HBK/Razor match that was noteworthy. I think both had great chemistry with Hall.
It's kind of a forgotten one but they had a pretty solid match on RAW in summer 1994. It stuck out at the time for me because Shawn was mostly acting in kind of a manager role for Diesel during the entirety of his IC Title run and that match was a rare example of him working a match on TV. During his heel run, Shawn could sell those Razor Ramon punches like nobody else.
 

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Shawn had better matches with Taker and Razor.

They both had great matches with Bulldog, Owen and Nash.

HBK wins overall.
 

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Shawn had better matches with Taker and Razor.

They both had great matches with Bulldog, Owen and Nash.

HBK wins overall.
A gimmick match doesn't really count.
And Bret Hart had a lot better matches with Curt Hennig and 123-kid. It's suprising how bad Shawn's match against Curt Hennig Is actually.
 

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A gimmick match doesn't really count.
Of course it does. If anything, it counts more as the workers have to use the gimmick to tell the story. Some of the worst matches ever have been competent enough workers trying to find their way around some goofy stipulation match they were thrown in. I think if one thing was learned by Undertaker and Bossman doing Hell in A Cell at Mania, it was that you need more than just Undertaker and a cool cage to get that type of match over.

It's suprising how bad Shawn's match against Curt Hennig Is actually.
"Bad" is an overblown reaction to say the least. If anything it was a good match that people were expecting to be great based on the talents involved.
 

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Of course it does. If anything, it counts more as the workers have to use the gimmick to tell the story. Some of the worst matches ever have been competent enough workers trying to find their way around some goofy stipulation match they were thrown in. I think if one thing was learned by Undertaker and Bossman doing Hell in A Cell at Mania, it was that you need more than just Undertaker and a cool cage to get that type of match over.



"Bad" is an overblown reaction to say the least. If anything it was a good match that people were expecting to be great based on the talents involved.
People saying gimmick matches don't count are just coping and trying to a make a case for their guy. WWE went heavy on gimmick matches leading up to and during the AE. So all those matches don't count? That's blasphemous! Those same guys wouldn't use the same logic and say Bret-Austin WM13 doesn't count because that was a gimmick too (no holds barred submission match). Or Bret-Owen 94 Summerslam in a cage. Does that not count? That line of argumentation is just insane.

93 HBK wasn't prime HBK yet. He was the same age Bret was in 1985, think about that. Yet we don't dig through Bret's mid 80's matches and expect them to hold up to his prime 90's matches.
 

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People saying gimmick matches don't count are just coping and trying to a make a case for their guy. WWE went heavy on gimmick matches leading up to and during the AE. So all those matches don't count? That's blasphemous! Those same guys wouldn't use the same logic and say Bret-Austin WM13 doesn't count because that was a gimmick too (no holds barred submission match). Or Bret-Owen 94 Summerslam in a cage. Does that not count? That line of argumentation is just insane.
Correct. Some of Bret's best performances were in gimmick matches. He also names a gimmick match (his "I Quit" bout with Backlund at Mania 11) as one of his least favorite performances of his career and you can definitely see how it is a case of the gimmick not working. Gimmicks are tricky.

93 HBK wasn't prime HBK yet. He was the same age Bret was in 1985, think about that. Yet we don't dig through Bret's mid 80's matches and expect them to hold up to his prime 90's matches.
I would say he was more than capable of having a great match with Perfect, it just didn't work out that way for a multitude of reasons. As I said before, it was far from a bad match, it just wasn't the classic match people were likely hoping for as the payoff for a long-term feud between the two most athletic workers in the company at the time. I'd still put it highly on the list of top Perfect matches in that post-back injury babyface run.
 

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Bret Hart was easily the best champion between 92 and 97 and its not really close. HBK is second in 96 but male fans hated him like they did Cena, the company went in the toilet when they moved away from Bret to Hogan/Luger in 93 and Diesel in 95. Bret was getting the biggest reactions in the mid card in 93 and was tied with HBK and Taker in 95. Part of Hart's probelm was he never got to go over the top 80's stars on the big statge except for Piper, when he beat Flair the match wasn't televised as there was no Raw back then, Hogan refused to job to him at Summerslam 93 and Warrior was fired but wouldn't have played ball anyway, only Savage was willing to and offered to put over Hart at WM 9 to pass the torch to him but Vince lost faith in Randy in late 92 and reduced his in ring role big time after the 92 Survivor Series. He beat a green and not main event ready HBK at Survivor Series 92 and very green Razor at the Rumble in 93 when neither guy was considered a main event guy by the fans. Vince had Yoko win the Rumble so fans would see Hart as an underog going into WM 9 and when Bret won the fans would buy into him as the top guy but Hogan intervened and changed the finish so he could leave with the belt.
 

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Bret's 93 King of the Ring win in 93 was makeup from Vince to him, Hogan wasn't supposed to wrestle Yoko again, he was supposed to lose to Hart at Summer slam 93 but reneged, that is why Hart hates Hogan to this day. Yoko as champion bombed badly and Luger wasn't over, Vince was going to put the belt on Luger at Summe4rslam 93 but guys threatend to quit as they felt Hart deserved the title. Diesel only won the belt in 94 because Hogan signed with WCW and that is it, had Hogan stayed gone, Hart would have main evented WM 11. Diesel bombed badly as champion and business was awful unless he was wrestling Bret or HBK. When HBK was turned face the night after WM 11 the plan was for HBK to beat Diesel at WM 12 for the title but Diesel was bombing so badly that Vince was leaning toward Bret after Summerslam and made up his mind for good after the awful Diesel vs Bulldog match at Winter Combat. Hart was never supposed to get the tile back he only did because Vince viewed HBK beating Bret as bigger than HBK beating DIesel and he was right.
 

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When Hart left WWF in 96 after WM 12 male fans left in droves because of HBK's character, he was drawing decent on house shows but overseas he wasn't close to the draw Bret was in Europe. If Bret goes to WCW in 96, WWF dies as fans were starting to turn on HBK in the fall of 96, Sid was unreliable and Vader was considered stiff and out of shape by Vince. Austin only got over because Bret handpicked him for Survivor Series, Bret made Austin a main eventer in that match and even his victory over Austin was considered a fluke as he beat him because Austin wouldn't let go of the million dollar dream. Bret was supposed to win the 97 Rumble last eliminating Austin, then he would put his title shot on the line in Feb 97 beat Austin again, then beat HBK for the belt at WM 13. Vince changed his mind when Russo figured out the finish, Austin then won and Bret was supposed to win the fatal four way number one contender ship and then beat HBK at mania but HBK balked and then Vince decided to have HBK lose to Sid on Thursday night raw but HBK forfeited the title. Bret wanted to defend the title at WM 13 against Austin but Vince went with Sid vs Undertaker in arguably the worst main event in WM history. People left in dorves during the WM 13 main event and when the buyrate came back low, Viince got rid of Sid and had planned for a Hart vs AUstin rematch at WM 14 for the title with Austin finally beating Bret. When hBK and Bret fought the night after KOTR 97 Vince knew he had to make a choice, he could have released HBK and let him go to WCW but kept him because HBK was 8 years younger and making 50% of what Bret was making. Bret and the Hart foundation were depushed significantly after Summerlsam 97.
 

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HBK, Diesel. Yokozuna, Austin, Lawler, Bulldog and Owen Hart all had the best matches of their career with Bret Hart.
 

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Bret' matches with Diesel in 95 are far better than Diesel's match with hbk at WM 11, his matches with Mr Perfect are far better than HBk'S, his matches with Bulldog are better than HBK's , same with Owen and Austin. HBK had better matches with Razor but those were ladder matches, HBK's first ttile shot came at Survivor Series 92 when he had not even been a single's wrestler for a year and had been an ic champ for less than one month, Razor had been in the company for less than 6 months when he fought Bret at the RUmble in 93, same with Yoko at WM 9.
 

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Bret would have been a much bigger draw if the 80's stars weren't so selfish and refused to put him over, Warrior would have never put Bret over, Hogan refused, Flair was hurt and not viewed by the WWF audience as a star like he was in WCW. Savage wanted to put Bret over at WM 9 for the title but when Warrior got fired Vince when with young guys and lost faith in Savage, after Survivor Series 92 Savage was relegated to an announcer. Savage knew Bret and Hbk were the future and wanted to put bret over at WM 9 and then have HBK retire him at WM 10 but Vince nixed it.
 

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Bret' matches with Diesel in 95 are far better than Diesel's match with hbk at WM 11, his matches with Mr Perfect are far better than HBk'S, his matches with Bulldog are better than HBK's , same with Owen and Austin. HBK had better matches with Razor but those were ladder matches, HBK's first ttile shot came at Survivor Series 92 when he had not even been a single's wrestler for a year and had been an ic champ for less than one month, Razor had been in the company for less than 6 months when he fought Bret at the RUmble in 93, same with Yoko at WM 9.
You are the worst kind of mark.
 
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