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He was not a monster. Monsters do not exist.

Humans do exist however and have proven throughout history they are capable of doing "monstrous" things.

If someone does something so bad that the other person cannot comprehend why they did it then they must be a monster, whether literally or figure of speech, rather than just accept that humans are complex.

Just my take.
Fair enough. I did not mean he literally became a monster. His damaged brain caused him to lose control for a finite amount of time. He clearly realized he did something wrong afterwards based on the actions he took afterwards. True psychopaths would not behave in that way.

I can't say what fucking caused him to murder his family. I'm not him I didn't know him so I can't even begin to know what his motivations were. I am not however, going to latch onto a convenient explanation that conceivably could be used as a means of justifying his actions. He's a piece of shit who in cold blood murdered his family. End of fucking story.
It is not convenient. It is a conclusion based on scientists and doctors who study this stuff. It is not magic being pulled out of the air. Just saying he is a killer and saying end of story helps no one in the future. Studying causes helps future people. It amazes me I have to actually argue this point.
 

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I have mixed feelings about the documentary.

I will start with WWE. Vince is not some fascinating study of human psychology. He is an unscrupulous money grabbing crook who looks to make money off anything without any sense of moral reproach. Just look at what he did when Brian Pillman, Owen Hart and Eddie Guerrero died. He created that tribute show not to honor the ones who passed away but because it might generate interest in his shows that would translate to more money in his pocket. He could care less about how and why they passed away. He distanced himself and the WWE from Benoit because it was evident that steroids played a huge role in the incident and that it would be easy to prove that their "Wellness Policy" is a farce and a joke because Benoit as well as others were passing them despite clearly being on steroids and drugs. His lawyers must have informed him that as soon as the toxicology reports come out, this fact would be proven. It would be clear as day that Vince was and is still running a steroid outfit.

There is no loyalty among the WWE wrestlers. They all just look out for themselves and will protect Vince because thats the guy who is paying them. There is no sense of morality in either of them because most of them are doing illegal drugs as well. Just look at what happened when Owen Hart died. His widow was looking for justice and turned to Owen's friends and none of them had the decency to even return her calls (including "Mr. Locker Room Leader" the Undertaker). They all supported Vince despite knowing that Vince was and is responsible for Owen's death. Here, it's the same thing. Not a single person from the WWE returned numerous attempts made by Michael Benoit, Nancy's sister Sandra or Benoit's kids except Chris Jericho and Chavo Guerrero. And that has more to do with them as individuals than WWE.

As always, WWE especially Vince are full of sh**.

The fact that Michael Benoit, Martina Benoit and Meghan Benoit were not involved in this documentary is strange and speaks volumes.

This whole Benoit CTE and having a brain of an 85 year old man with Alzheimers is horse sh**. A man with Alzheimers is not capable of doing the kind of things that Chris Benoit was doing; performing in the ring, traveling all over the world, killing his wife and child, leaving Bibles next to their bodies, using the computer on researching how to kill himself, communicating with WWE officials, sending text messages, creating safe passage for whoever would discover the bodies by putting the dogs in the pool area, etc.

Chris Benoit's story is being made more elaborate and confusing than it needs to be. He was a steroid user since he was a teenager. He also was a spousal abuser. His domestic spousal abuse against his wife led to her murder. He had a long history of doing this. He beat her, smashed her car windows/glass, destroyed other property. He had a history. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he did the same with his ex-wife. Just look at how defensive Jericho, Sandra, and to a small degree Vickie got in that part of the documentary. Jericho especially was very well aware of spousal problems between Benoit and Nancy and suspected him, which was why he declined to be part of the tribute show. The people close to him or people who lived near him like Regal all knew and chose to do nothing. Just look at Nancy's text messages in Benoit's phone. She pretty much confirms what we all know about the "Wellness Policy" and that Chris was still on them and referenced his history of spousal abuse. Now where do steroids come into the picture? Chris was abusing Nancy with that steroid strength. Everybody reacts to steroids and growth hormones differently, and with Chris, it was that temper and rage.

Which brings us to what happened that night. Nancy and Chris got into it, and she had enough of his verbal and physical abuse. She finally told Chris that she was going to divorce him this time. Benoit's first marriage ended poorly and he was paying alimony and child support. He didn't want to do the same to Nancy and Daniel. This triggered rage in Benoit who killed her in a crime of passion. Why would Benoit kill Daniel? I think Daniel witnessed his mother's murder at the hands of his father. Chris didn't want Daniel growing up with that memory even if he got convicted and Daniel was living with someone else. He drugs him and then kills him in his sleep.

David Benoit regarding his father as a hero in any sense of the word isn't right. He should see a psychologist who can help him. No one should idolize a man who beats his wife let alone kills her and his defenseless son.

The documentary was decent, but it dragged and it was very obvious that not everyone was very open or telling the truth especially certain people who were close to Benoit and Nancy.
Damn they should of gotten you on the show. You know everything apparently
 

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Fair enough. I did not mean he literally became a monster. His damaged brain caused him to lose control for a finite amount of time. He clearly realized he did something wrong afterwards based on the actions he took afterwards. True psychopaths would not behave in that way.

What is this fascination you have with the term psychopath? Do you somehow believe that only psychopaths commit heinous crimes? The vast majority of murders aren't committed by pyschopaths. Not all psychopaths are murderers or even criminals. People do irrational, shocking or horrendous things for any number of reasons. Stressors and just how they affect a persons behaviour are unpredictable.

There are three men all of their wives are cheating on them. Man #1 finds out, gets mad and kills his wife. Man #2 finds out becomes depressed and commits suicide. Man #3 finds out and files for divorce. One stressor, three reactions and three results. Not one of them is a psychopath or inherently evil just men reacting to a situation.

It is not convenient. It is a conclusion based on scientists and doctors who study this stuff. It is not magic being pulled out of the air. Just saying he is a killer and saying end of story helps no one in the future. Studying causes helps future people. It amazes me I have to actually argue this point.

There is no science that can prove that Benoit killed his family because of his diminished capacity only that aggression or impulse control problems are examples of many possible symptoms of brain damage. There may well come a day when scientists and doctors can pinpoint and predict how a person will behave due to brain damage but we are not there or even close to being there.
 

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What is this fascination you have with the term psychopath? Do you somehow believe that only psychopaths commit heinous crimes? The vast majority of murders aren't committed by pyschopaths. Not all psychopaths are murderers or even criminals. People do irrational, shocking or horrendous things for any number of reasons. Stressors and just how they affect a persons behaviour are unpredictable.

There are three men all of their wives are cheating on them. Man #1 finds out, gets mad and kills his wife. Man #2 finds out becomes depressed and commits suicide. Man #3 finds out and files for divorce. One stressor, three reactions and three results. Not one of them is a psychopath or inherently evil just men reacting to a situation.
Right, people react to different things or even the same initial thing for different reasons. The whole point is to identify why they reacted in the way they did. The way you can understand why they did is to look at the evidence. Finding out the differences between the three men in your example is the key to understanding why what happened did happen right? You said you are not him so you have no idea why he did what he did. Is that how society works? If you are a police officer and you enter a crime scene and your response is "well I am not the person who did this so I have no idea how it happened" that would be an obvious ridiculous response. We have science. Scientists study this stuff. What is the point of ignoring the evidence we have in this specific case? Why do you want to throw your hands up and basically say "well, people kill other people for lots of reasons, who really knows?" It makes no sense.

I mention psychopaths specifically because they feel no remorse. Benoit knew he had committed a horrible crime. I only brought up psychopath to show he clearly was not one.

There is no science that can prove that Benoit killed his family because of his diminished capacity only that aggression or impulse control problems are examples of many possible symptoms of brain damage. There may well come a day when scientists and doctors can pinpoint and predict how a person will behave due to brain damage but we are not there or even close to being there.
They cannot prove it 100%, but in this black and white universe you seem to live in you have to be able to prove something 100% or it means nothing. You have to follow the evidence. This is how almost all crimes get solved.
 

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They cannot prove it 100%, but in this black and white universe you seem to live in you have to be able to prove something 100% or it means nothing. You have to follow the evidence. This is how almost all crimes get solved.
I never said it meant nothing and at no point did I ever say it wasn't a contributing factor to what happened. All I ever said was that there is no way to prove that brain damage caused him to kill his family and that there is any number of reasons that aren't brain damage that could have just as easily caused him to kill his family.

I was however openly taking issue with the fact that YOU are so willing to accept that brain damage definitively caused his murdering his family and blatantly ignoring that there may have been any other motivation behind it.

In fact, his brain damage has only ever been cited as a possible motive. The truth is nobody knows why he did it and we never will.


BTW it isn't my job nor concern why he did it. I don't care why. NOr is it my place to speculate one way or the other. Which is why I won't.

Also on the subject of studying the human brain the more information we have the better without a fucking doubt. I'm 34 and in my life have suffered 11 diagnosed concussions. I seem to be fine and my most recent scan was clear so that is good news but I do have a vested interest in the continued pursuit of knowledge of the brain and brain trauma.
 

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I never said it meant nothing and at no point did I ever say it wasn't a contributing factor to what happened. All I ever said was that there is no way to prove that brain damage caused him to kill his family and that there is any number of reasons that aren't brain damage that could have just as easily caused him to kill his family.

I was however openly taking issue with the fact that YOU are so willing to accept that brain damage definitively caused his murdering his family and blatantly ignoring that there may have been any other motivation behind it.

In fact, his brain damage has only ever been cited as a possible motive. The truth is nobody knows why he did it and we never will.


BTW it isn't my job nor concern why he did it. I don't care why.
You do not care why?? This whole tragedy caused industry-wide change. Unprotected chair shots banned. Concussion protocols. Those things matter and help to prevent future pain. Of course we will never know 100% for sure and there could have been multiple reasons but they could not "just as easily" have caused it. These things are not equally weighted. I am very willing to follow evidence. I would be irrational if I said I believed brain damage was the primary factor if they tested his brain and found no damage. They tested it and it did. If there are other factors the onus is on you to provide evidence of those things. We have evidence of one thing, so it is the likely cause. Not 100%, but likely. It is called the preponderance of evidence. I am not ignoring anything. I welcome any new evidence for motive to come to light. There has been none so far.
 

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I was miserable watching and reliving this horrific tragedy that almost killed my fandom when it happened all those years ago.

I too am happy David and Sandra have re-connected.
 

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This is potentially similar to the issue of Aaron Hernandez, medically speaking. CTE has been proven to be a major contributor to the degeneration of tissue within the prefrontal cortex (or the frontal lobe). This brain region has been implicated in planning complex cognitive behaviour, personality expression, decision making, and moderating social behaviour. High sociopathic anti-social behaviour is linked to an under-active prefrontal cortex. What does this mean for Benoit? Well, it means at the very least that the relationship between his rage, and his cognitive ability to control the outcome of that rage, is majorly impacted by the damage in the frontal lobe of his brain. Imagine a time in your life that you just saw red. Remember how difficult it was a the time to temper that anger. That small urge in the moment to just punch someone. It's fleeting. Only lasts for a few seconds, but it's real and every experiences it at some point. Now, picture someone like Benoit, who's deterioration means that the window of violent urge lasts for at least 50% longer on each occasion. How much more likely they are to have a violent outburst and how much less likely they are to be able to control it.

In one sense, yes, you can ultimately blame him for the actions he did take. Everything is ultimately responsible for their own actions, regardless of their various shortcomings; that being said, it'd be foolish to treat him as any other person when his brain tissue deterioration impacts him way more than the average person.

It's easy to judge when you have a sound mind that hasn't suffered that level of permanent damage. It's easy to throw the monster label instead of facing the determinable nuances of what causes or makes more probably cause for certain people to act a certain way. Not everyone is on an even standing ground.
 

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Benoit was severely brain damaged. He probably had a ton of disorders. He likely flew in and out of bouts of uncontrollable rage, and he completely snapped and killed his family. He didn't even kill his dogs, he couldn't have been that much of a heartless monster, if he was he would have killed them too. The guy just lost it and did something horrible. I don't think the man intended to kill his family, nor do I think he was always a monster. The combination of steriods, brain damage from chair shots and bumps, alcohol and pills, and no time off from the road is what likely created this monster.

The guy couldn't even get time off after Eddie died. Vince McMahon truly is a carny scumbag.
 

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With their eyes duh...
Ok troll. Go look up posts from weeks ago and come up with a response. Check restrictions regarding broadcast rights and then come at me with a better response....you can do it, it will only take a few more weeks to copy someone else's answer. Now let me get back on topic.
 

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I wasn't aware that Chris tied Nancy's arms together with duck tape and broke her back. Jeez that's is just even more terrible. You need to take time to get all that stuff - I had assumed he 'just' strangled her in a few second rage

According to Dave Meltzer, the post mortem results on Daniel showed that he was killed in what was basically a crippler cross-face position. The injuries were literally consistent with Chris putting him in his finishing hold as the way to kill him. I guess they didn't want to talk about that on the show though. A little too graphic when it's a child. The knife under Daniel's bed was strange too, almost as if Chris contemplated using that as the method?
 

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Yeah. That's just fucking ridiculous to me.

I always believed he just snapped and choked her out. But Sandra's comments on Jericho's podcast changed that. She didn't go into detail though. Now we know.
 

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Not everyone who loses a friend becomes a killer.

Not everyone who has CTE becomes a killer.

Not everyone who has traumatic brain injuries and a sob story becomes a killer.

There are lots of people locked up who have worse life experiences and trauma than Chris Benoit. Do you give them the same veneration? Do you glorify them? Do you give them excuses? Or does Benoit get special treatment because he was a celebrity?

Chris Benoit didn't just snapped. He abused Nancy for a long time before he killed her.

Chris Benoit duct taped Nancy and she spent her last moments having her back broken because of the brutal amount of force Chris Benoit was applying to her back while strangling her.

He BROKE her back while he killed her.

Daniel likely listened while his mom died. There's no way he didn't hear her every time she pled for her life, there's no way he didn't hear her desperate, final struggles. There's no sugar coating this, people make weird, scary sounds when they're asphyxiating. There's no way Daniel didn't hear that. He might have seen it all with his own eyes. He also likely witnessed Chris carrying his mother's mangled body. Rolling it up in that carpet. He had to go to SLEEP with his mother's destroyed body laying just feet away in the hallway. We don't know if he could see her face, her eyes, her broken back. He had to sleep with her body nearby.

Your children are the only people on earth who trust you implicitly

The next day Chris decided it was Daniel's time to die. He put his son in a crippler crossface. Likely breaking every bone in his back, neck and face, delivering an excruciating and terrifying end to his son's life. Even accounting for xanax, it is very possible that Daniel felt every bit of pain at the end of his life.

Daniel had a whole life ahead of him. He deserves to still be here. Hell, maybe he had a wrestling career of his own ahead of him. Nancy Benoit deserves to still be here. Married to someone who didn't beat the shit out of her. Reminiscing on her own modest contribution to the entertainment industry. Instead, she spent her final moments in unbelievable torture. She died in pain and regret, likely regretting every single decision that she had made or didn't make leading to her demise at the hands of Chris Benoit.

Chris Benoit and his apologists can all fuck off. Fuck that piece of shit. If hell is real, he's there right now. And what's really sad is that... on top of how he psychologically tortured and mangled these two human beings.... he wasn't even that good
 

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Benoit was severely brain damaged. He probably had a ton of disorders. He likely flew in and out of bouts of uncontrollable rage, and he completely snapped and killed his family. He didn't even kill his dogs, he couldn't have been that much of a heartless monster, if he was he would have killed them too. The guy just lost it and did something horrible. I don't think the man intended to kill his family, nor do I think he was always a monster. The combination of steriods, brain damage from chair shots and bumps, alcohol and pills, and no time off from the road is what likely created this monster.

The guy couldn't even get time off after Eddie died. Vince McMahon truly is a carny scumbag.
i agree Vince does not even think about the welfare of his talent. I don’t think this is because he’s a bad Person. Just how he’s wired, when your running a hundred million dollar company.

Theirs no excuse for what Chris did. At all. But he’s no monster. Just like football players suffer from concussion. His brain damage. Clearly influenced his behaviour. The combination of the lifestyle of professional wrestling, his work ethic, his drug usage. Which included cocaine, steroids, roids etc. Clearly influenced his behaviour. After watching it well Done. No speculation. Just announcing the facts as they were at the time.

What people don’t understand is. Yes he had CTE. But not every case turns out like this. He was reportedly abusing Nancy for months. Whatever the factors. Drugs, Grief etc. Perfect Storm? I don’t know. But apologists do need to stop apologising on his behalf. He wrote a a suicide note. He was at least in some capacity. This was the final chapter, not a footnote.
 

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Not everyone who loses a friend becomes a killer.

Not everyone who has CTE becomes a killer.

Not everyone who has traumatic brain injuries and a sob story becomes a killer.

There are lots of people locked up who have worse life experiences and trauma than Chris Benoit. Do you give them the same veneration? Do you glorify them? Do you give them excuses? Or does Benoit get special treatment because he was a celebrity?

Chris Benoit didn't just snapped. He abused Nancy for a long time before he killed her.

Chris Benoit duct taped Nancy and she spent her last moments having her back broken because of the brutal amount of force Chris Benoit was applying to her back while strangling her.

He BROKE her back while he killed her.
Give yourself a championship for this post. Came in with the dagger.
 

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Not everyone who loses a friend becomes a killer.

Not everyone who has CTE becomes a killer.

Not everyone who has traumatic brain injuries and a sob story becomes a killer.

There are lots of people locked up who have worse life experiences and trauma than Chris Benoit. Do you give them the same veneration? Do you glorify them? Do you give them excuses? Or does Benoit get special treatment because he was a celebrity?

Chris Benoit didn't just snapped. He abused Nancy for a long time before he killed her.

Chris Benoit duct taped Nancy and she spent her last moments having her back broken because of the brutal amount of force Chris Benoit was applying to her back while strangling her.

He BROKE her back while he killed her.

Daniel likely listened while his mom died. There's no way he didn't hear her every time she pled for her life, there's no way he didn't hear her desperate, final struggles. There's no sugar coating this, people make weird, scary sounds when they're asphyxiating. There's no way Daniel didn't hear that. He might have seen it all with his own eyes. He also likely witnessed Chris carrying his mother's mangled body. Rolling it up in that carpet. He had to go to SLEEP with his mother's destroyed body laying just feet away in the hallway. We don't know if he could see her face, her eyes, her broken back. He had to sleep with her body nearby.

Your children are the only people on earth who trust you implicitly

The next day Chris decided it was Daniel's time to die. He put his son in a crippler crossface. Likely breaking every bone in his back, neck and face, delivering an excruciating and terrifying end to his son's life. Even accounting for xanax, it is very possible that Daniel felt every bit of pain at the end of his life.

Daniel had a whole life ahead of him. He deserves to still be here. Hell, maybe he had a wrestling career of his own ahead of him. Nancy Benoit deserves to still be here. Married to someone who didn't beat the shit out of her. Reminiscing on her own modest contribution to the entertainment industry. Instead, she spent her final moments in unbelievable torture. She died in pain and regret, likely regretting every single decision that she had made or didn't make leading to her demise at the hands of Chris Benoit.

Chris Benoit and his apologists can all fuck off. Fuck that piece of shit. If hell is real, he's there right now. And what's really sad is that... on top of how he psychologically tortured and mangled these two human beings.... he wasn't even that good
One of the finest posts I've had the privilege of reading. Awesome job, and I agree with every word stated.
 

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Vice did a BEYOND amazing job with this!!

It went toward some closure.

One thing that nags at me is physical abuse. Sandra said the one occasion. People on here say that there was multiple occasions. I paused and read all the texts from Nancy to Chris and she mentioned emotional and verbal abuse a couple of times, but never physical.

I didn't think I could love Jericho any more than I already did, but to know he was responsible for bringing David and Sandra, two people who obviously need each other, together after more than a decade...beyond unbelievable!! Kudos to Chavo as well.

On a side note, Malenko is heartbreaking. I could see him shaking in his interviews. Initially thought it was because of the emotion of the topic. Looked it up and saw he now has Parkinson's Disease.
 

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I saw this trending on YouTube and decided to watch It, very well put together documentary. Chavo and Jericho are the only ones I've heard speak on this situation extensively outside this documentary so it was definitely great to hear more of their insight.

It brought me to tears when Vickie was explaining the call from Vince informing her of Eddie's death. The craziest thing is Benoit and Eddie will forever be linked together. Everytime I think of one I think of the other. Two very sad situations in how there lives ended. Chavo, Sandra, and David will likely never heal from these traumatic events.
 
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