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No one in that documentary claimed he was innocent. He was a human being though. A human with obvious mental issues. There is no excuse for what he did, but that's not what the documentary was. It was his friends and loved ones trying explain/understand what happened.

Benoit was a murderer, there's no denying that. But Benoit was also a man who suffered from mental illness. You can't expect people who knew him for decades to just stop loving him
 

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If you just put what he did down as him being a monster then youll never understand and see the signs in future. Not condoning what he did but people like him need to be shown to be human because, well they are and we as society need to see the causes to prevent in future.
Every murderer is human it doesn't mean that we should accept that the may have had problems as part of the cause of them doing something abhorrent.

He murdered his family and that makes him a fucking monster. Diminished capacity or otherwise.
 

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No matter what was affecting him mentally he still murdered his family and that makes him a fucking monster. Diminished capacity or otherwise.
Correct, he did become a monster. He was not always a monster. What created that monster is important and is being more and more understood by scientists. The documentary made clear that a good person became a monster which is the ultimate tragedy in all this.
 

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anyone who think Benoit is innocent.
Still to watch part #2, but does anybody claim Benoit didn't do it?

I can see the rationale behind the Benoit they knew, who he used to be etc, isn't the same person..... but I'm gonna be stunned if someone says "I don't believe he did it".
 

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Did you watch part 2? Also nothing wrong with "humanizing" him. the point of the doc was to show how this man who by many of his family, friends, peers said was a good man, how did he turn out to do this horrible act. Many can't believe he did it.
 

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Still to watch part #2, but does anybody claim Benoit didn't do it?

I can see the rationale behind the Benoit they knew, who he used to be etc, isn't the same person..... but I'm gonna be stunned if someone says "I don't believe he did it".
Yeah, no one in the program said he did not do it. It was just the shock of someone they knew for decades having the capability of doing it.
 

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What sucks is that we will never know why he did it. We can speculate all we want about Drugs, steroids, rage whatever but we will never know why it happened and what actually happened. We just know why he did it. A husband getting into a fight with his wife, then him murdering her sounds realistic and I can see the scenario playing out in my head (I watch a lot of Forensic Files). Seen many cases like this before, but him killing his son made no sense to me. Why would he do it? A real tragedy is that we will never know why.
 

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Correct, he did become a monster. He was not always a monster. What created that monster is important and is being more and more understood by scientists. The documentary made clear that a good person became a monster which is the ultimate tragedy in all this.
No, the ultimate tragedy is that he killed two fucking people who did not deserve that fate. The silver lining in it is that he saved everyone a fuck ton of time and offed himself too.
 

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No, the ultimate tragedy is that he killed two fucking people who did not deserve that fate. The silver lining in it is that he saved everyone a fuck ton of time and offed himself too.
The important difference is many murderers are naturally psychopaths. It took something physical to make Benoit a murderer. That is an important difference and thankfully will help people going forward by being studied and understood. No one is excusing his actions, only studying and understanding the causes.
 

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That was an abomination. They spent too much time trying to humanize a fucking child murderer. Fuck Vice Fuck Jericho Fuck Chavo and fuck anyone who think Benoit is innocent. Fucking abysmal.
????

You're an idiot. No one said he was innocent, and no one humanized what he did.
 

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The important difference is many murderers are naturally psychopaths. It took something physical to make Benoit a murderer. That is an important difference and thankfully will help people going forward by being studied and understood. No one is excusing his actions, only studying and understanding the causes.

The vast majority of murderers are regular people who were pushed too far(more than are psychopaths). It's called a trigger. There can be any number of things that trigger a person and results in a change in personality. The reason why he murdered two people doesn't change the fact that he's a murderer.
 

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Yes, many murderers are psychopaths. Many murderers are also regular people who were pushed too far. It's called a trigger. There can be any number of things that trigger a person and results in a change in personality. The reason why he murdered two people doesn't change the fact that he's a murderer.

There is no concrete scientific proof that CTE, roid rage etc. inherently cause people to become homicidal.
In this specific case we do know though. Brain damage causes personality changes and his brain was shown to be very damaged. There is concrete scientific proof of that. Not all brain damage causes the same effects, but some brain damage causes what happens here. That much is clear. Of course the reason does not change the fact they were murdered, but understanding the reason is likely to prevent future murders. That is my point.
 

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In this specific case we do know though. Brain damage causes personality changes and his brain was shown to be very damaged. There is concrete scientific proof of that. Not all brain damage causes the same effects, but some brain damage causes what happens here. That much is clear. Of course the reason does not change the fact they were murdered, but understanding the reason is likely to prevent future murders. That is my point.

You aren't going to prevent future murders like that because you cannot predict how a person's personality will change due to brain damage. Which is the fucking point of what I have been saying all along. Yes, he had brain damage. Yes, brain damage can cause personality changes. There is no way to prove that it caused him to become homicidal. It's a potential change but not provable. Attributing his actions to his having brain damage without a way to unequivocally prove that is ridiculous and just stupid.

My cousin was in a car accident (a really bad one) when he was 12. Suffered a serious head injury caused him to be in a coma for 10 days. Spent the next 18 weeks in the neurology ward at Sick Kids in Toronto and while his personality did indeed change he became passive, timid and had regressed to the intelligence level of a second-grader. He had to relearn a whole lot of things in his life. Over time he caught most of the way back up but has trouble remembering things, is prone to blackouts, see's spots, and at times see's nothing but white. He didn't become a fucking murderer.
 

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You aren't going to prevent future murders like that because you cannot predict how a person's personality will change due to brain damage. Which is the fucking point of what I have been saying all along. Yes, he had brain damage. Yes, brain damage can cause personality changes. There is no way to prove that it caused him to become homicidal. It's a potential change but not provable. Attributing his actions to his having brain damage without a way to unequivocally prove that is ridiculous and just stupid.
Are you claiming no people who have suffered brain damage become homicidal? You would be going against all experts if that is your claim and I would like to see your evidence. You absolutely do prevent future murders by preventing brain damage. A SUBSET of brain damage victims have their personalities altered in a way to cause them to be more likely to lose restraint and kill. Benoit obviously did not become a permanent raging psychopath. He did not suddenly snap and start killing everyone he could. He was able to send texts and communicate after he killed his family.

I am not sure I understand your argument though. There is no way to prove people with brain damage become homicidal? I would say the homicides are at least circumstantial proof. And again, this is not just one person's opinion. The scientists who actually study this stuff agree. I guess I am just not seeing your motive for arguing against the evidence. Are you trying to say he was just naturally evil? What would you say caused him to do this?
 

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Are you claiming no people who have suffered brain damage become homicidal? You would be going against all experts if that is your claim and I would like to see your evidence. You absolutely do prevent future murders by preventing brain damage. A SUBSET of brain damage victims have their personalities altered in a way to cause them to be more likely to lose restraint and kill. Benoit obviously did not become a permanent raging psychopath. He did not suddenly snap and start killing everyone he could. He was able to send texts and communicate after he killed his family.

I am not sure I understand your argument though. There is no way to prove people with brain damage become homicidal? I would say the homicides are at least circumstantial proof. And again, this is not just one person's opinion. The scientists who actually study this stuff agree. I guess I am just not seeing your motive for arguing against the evidence. Are you trying to say he was just naturally evil? What would you say caused him to do this?
You're using this SUBSET as concrete proof that Benoit's actions were caused by his brain damage. There are also SUBSETS of people with brain damage who DON'T become MURDERERS. You can't prove that Benoit was one or the other is what I'm saying. There can be many other factors that can cause someone to lose control of their actions. The only "proof" you have that his brain damage "caused" him to become homicidal is that he in fact had brain damage and he did kill his family. The problem with your argument and everyone that is making that same "definitive" connection is that you are ignoring the fact that a plethora of other factors could cause someone to lose control and perpetrate such a heinous crime. Not all brain injuries are the same and not all brain damage leads to violence.

You can't predict how brain damage is going to affect a person's behaviour so you can't prevent murders attributed to brain damage. Also you can't lock someone up because they might kill someone unless they have a pattern of behaviour that is cause for concern criminally or psychiatrically.
 

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I have mixed feelings about the documentary.

I will start with WWE. Vince is not some fascinating study of human psychology. He is an unscrupulous money grabbing crook who looks to make money off anything without any sense of moral reproach. Just look at what he did when Brian Pillman, Owen Hart and Eddie Guerrero died. He created that tribute show not to honor the ones who passed away but because it might generate interest in his shows that would translate to more money in his pocket. He could care less about how and why they passed away. He distanced himself and the WWE from Benoit because it was evident that steroids played a huge role in the incident and that it would be easy to prove that their "Wellness Policy" is a farce and a joke because Benoit as well as others were passing them despite clearly being on steroids and drugs. His lawyers must have informed him that as soon as the toxicology reports come out, this fact would be proven. It would be clear as day that Vince was and is still running a steroid outfit.

There is no loyalty among the WWE wrestlers. They all just look out for themselves and will protect Vince because thats the guy who is paying them. There is no sense of morality in either of them because most of them are doing illegal drugs as well. Just look at what happened when Owen Hart died. His widow was looking for justice and turned to Owen's friends and none of them had the decency to even return her calls (including "Mr. Locker Room Leader" the Undertaker). They all supported Vince despite knowing that Vince was and is responsible for Owen's death. Here, it's the same thing. Not a single person from the WWE returned numerous attempts made by Michael Benoit, Nancy's sister Sandra or Benoit's kids except Chris Jericho and Chavo Guerrero. And that has more to do with them as individuals than WWE.

As always, WWE especially Vince are full of sh**.

The fact that Michael Benoit, Martina Benoit and Meghan Benoit were not involved in this documentary is strange and speaks volumes.

This whole Benoit CTE and having a brain of an 85 year old man with Alzheimers is horse sh**. A man with Alzheimers is not capable of doing the kind of things that Chris Benoit was doing; performing in the ring, traveling all over the world, killing his wife and child, leaving Bibles next to their bodies, using the computer on researching how to kill himself, communicating with WWE officials, sending text messages, creating safe passage for whoever would discover the bodies by putting the dogs in the pool area, etc.

Chris Benoit's story is being made more elaborate and confusing than it needs to be. He was a steroid user since he was a teenager. He also was a spousal abuser. His domestic spousal abuse against his wife led to her murder. He had a long history of doing this. He beat her, smashed her car windows/glass, destroyed other property. He had a history. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he did the same with his ex-wife. Just look at how defensive Jericho, Sandra, and to a small degree Vickie got in that part of the documentary. Jericho especially was very well aware of spousal problems between Benoit and Nancy and suspected him, which was why he declined to be part of the tribute show. The people close to him or people who lived near him like Regal all knew and chose to do nothing. Just look at Nancy's text messages in Benoit's phone. She pretty much confirms what we all know about the "Wellness Policy" and that Chris was still on them and referenced his history of spousal abuse. Now where do steroids come into the picture? Chris was abusing Nancy with that steroid strength. Everybody reacts to steroids and growth hormones differently, and with Chris, it was that temper and rage.

Which brings us to what happened that night. Nancy and Chris got into it, and she had enough of his verbal and physical abuse. She finally told Chris that she was going to divorce him this time. Benoit's first marriage ended poorly and he was paying alimony and child support. He didn't want to do the same to Nancy and Daniel. This triggered rage in Benoit who killed her in a crime of passion. Why would Benoit kill Daniel? I think Daniel witnessed his mother's murder at the hands of his father. Chris didn't want Daniel growing up with that memory even if he got convicted and Daniel was living with someone else. He drugs him and then kills him in his sleep.

David Benoit regarding his father as a hero in any sense of the word isn't right. He should see a psychologist who can help him. No one should idolize a man who beats his wife let alone kills her and his defenseless son.

The documentary was decent, but it dragged and it was very obvious that not everyone was very open or telling the truth especially certain people who were close to Benoit and Nancy.
 

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Correct, he did become a monster. He was not always a monster. What created that monster is important and is being more and more understood by scientists. The documentary made clear that a good person became a monster which is the ultimate tragedy in all this.
He was not a monster. Monsters do not exist.

Humans do exist however and have proven throughout history they are capable of doing "monstrous" things.

If someone does something so bad that the other person cannot comprehend why they did it then they must be a monster, whether literally or figure of speech, rather than just accept that humans are complex.

Just my take.
 

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You're using this SUBSET as concrete proof that Benoit's actions were caused by his brain damage. There are also SUBSETS of people with brain damage who DON'T become MURDERERS. You can't prove that Benoit was one or the other is what I'm saying. There can be many other factors that can cause someone to lose control of their actions. The only "proof" you have that his brain damage "caused" him to become homicidal is that he in fact had brain damage and he did kill his family. The problem with your argument and everyone that is making that same "definitive" connection is that you are ignoring the fact that a plethora of other factors could cause someone to lose control and perpetrate such a heinous crime. Not all brain injuries are the same and not all brain damage leads to violence.

You can't predict how brain damage is going to affect a person's behaviour so you can't prevent murders attributed to brain damage. Also you can't lock someone up because they might kill someone unless they have a pattern of behaviour that is cause for concern criminally or psychiatrically.
I am still waiting to hear your theory on why he did it then. It is not a definitive argument that brain damage is why it happened, it is just called following the evidence. Fires can happen for many different reasons but if you find out there was a gas leak you do not say there is no evidence the gas leak caused this specific fire because fires can start other ways. That makes no sense. Gas leaks also do not always result in a fire, but they always come with a potential for danger. All brain damage is bad. Some brain damage to some parts of the brain cause people to act irrational. There are a lot of reasons for people to lose control and kill people, however when you look at this specific case you can clearly see evidence for one reason. You want to ignore that because it could have been something else? Sorry sir, I know it looks like your wife died from a gun shot wound, but there is a chance she died from a heart attack from seeing the gun before it even was fired so we really will never know for sure.

Again, you seem to be arguing against all the experts who actually study this stuff. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What evidence do you have? We have the brain damage he suffered on record.
 

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Are you claiming no people who have suffered brain damage become homicidal? You would be going against all experts if that is your claim and I would like to see your evidence. You absolutely do prevent future murders by preventing brain damage. A SUBSET of brain damage victims have their personalities altered in a way to cause them to be more likely to lose restraint and kill. Benoit obviously did not become a permanent raging psychopath. He did not suddenly snap and start killing everyone he could. He was able to send texts and communicate after he killed his family.

I am not sure I understand your argument though. There is no way to prove people with brain damage become homicidal? I would say the homicides are at least circumstantial proof. And again, this is not just one person's opinion. The scientists who actually study this stuff agree. I guess I am just not seeing your motive for arguing against the evidence. Are you trying to say he was just naturally evil? What would you say caused him to do this?

I can't say what fucking caused him to murder his family. I'm not him I didn't know him so I can't even begin to know what his motivations were. I am not however, going to latch onto a convenient explanation that conceivably could be used as a means of justifying his actions. He's a piece of shit who in cold blood murdered his family. End of fucking story.
 
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