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Discussion Starter #1
Sup peepz?

So my thread is basically about what I mentioned in the title, tweener do get over the best in wrestling. And it has been proving.

Sure, there has been some huge faces getting amazing reactions (Hulk Hogan, The Rock etc), but there's also been a few tweeners with amazing reactions, why? I tell you why.

Let's take a look at what a tweener really is:

- In WWE there's something called a face (fan favorite), and a heel (unpopular). Then there's the one in the middle, the tweeners, and a tweener is when a guy is doing things on his own, when he's wrestling, earning money and winning championships for himself, but on the other hand, he can be cheered by the crowd. A tweener doesn't bash the audience, but he don't suck up to them either.

Stone Cold, The Undertaker, Kane and Triple H were/is all tweeners. IMO Kane and Undertaker has always been tweeners (except Taker in 2002 and Kane in 2004). And whenever Triple H is not a fully heel, he's a tweener. (He was a face in 2006 though). And Stone Cold has been a tweener all his career, except when he turned on the WWF and joined the alliance, that made him a fully heel.

My point is the reactions these four men got in the attitude era, and still gets today are amazing, I believe most fans dig tweeners, they're my favorite kind of wrestlers, sure I like some heels and some faces too, but tweeners is better IMO.

- Your thoughts about all this?
 

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Stone Cold was a bad ass face. He loved the fans and was basically doing what we all wanted to do in our lifes (our dreams?)

Constantly getting fan interaction to get cheers and a buzz going = face. 'Give me a hell yeah' etc.

I still have to go with the Faces getting over the most in general. Be it badass or baby.
 

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You're generally right. A great example of it currently is Randy Orton.
I do agree that in this day in age people prefer heels and tweeners, if you like, much more than a face thrown down our throats.

It's funny how times change.
 

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There's a difference between tweeners and badass faces like Austin.
 

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Yeah, your kinda right.

Stone Cold
Randy Orton
The Rock
The Undertaker
Chris Jericho even gets cheers sometimes

They could all be labeled tweeners, but the biggest of the lot is definetly Stone Cold. He would stun face and heel alike and get cheered. Give the crowd the finger and still get cheered! he was God like at one stage.

Now days tweeners tend to be more face like. They still retain the badass side but refrain from insulting the audience, which is a pure heel tactic to garner heat.
 

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It's got absolutely shit-all to do with Tweeners.

It's that Wrestling is the only entertainment industry in the world, except for kiddie cartoons, that still writes its scripts to be as Black and White as possible, which makes most stories shallow and uninteresting.

You want interesting stories, you need depth in your characters. That means heels have to be convincing, and have to be able to connect with the audience in some way or another (even if its negatively). Faces can't be the pillars of perfection, or else they'll be boring and predictable, so they need flaws. The moment you start adding extra layers to your characters, and the more realistic they become, the greyer they get.

Only in the wrestling industry is a "tweener" considered something special. Everything else caught on to the same trick 20 years ago, and to them it's called the norm.
 

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It's got absolutely shit-all to do with Tweeners.

It's that Wrestling is the only entertainment industry in the world, except for kiddie cartoons, that still writes its scripts to be as Black and White as possible, which makes most stories shallow and uninteresting.

You want interesting stories, you need depth in your characters. That means heels have to be convincing, and have to be able to connect with the audience in some way or another (even if its negatively). Faces can't be the pillars of perfection, or else they'll be boring and predictable, so they need flaws. The moment you start adding extra layers to your characters, and the more realistic they become, the greyer they get.

Only in the wrestling industry is a "tweener" considered something special. Everything else caught on to the same trick 20 years ago, and to them it's called the norm.
Awesome post. That's exactly why Orton's 'IED' character last year was so damn interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
You're generally right. A great example of it currently is Randy Orton.
I agree, even though he sucks. Look how the crowd is reacting to him? In 2004-05, even 06 and probably 07, the crowd was like "Who? He still got a job?". Now he's the most popular guy on the RAW roster, and he's not even a face. When he's talking, he's not sucking up to the fans.

And to the Austin references, even though he had a catchphrase called "Give me a hell yeah", I wouldn't call it sucking up, he just connected IMO.
 

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I agree, even though he sucks. Look how the crowd is reacting to him? In 2004-05, even 06 and probably 07, the crowd was like "Who? He still got a job?". Now he's the most popular guy on the RAW roster, and he's not even a face. When he's talking, he's not sucking up to the fans.

And to the Austin references, even though he had a catchphrase called "Give me a hell yeah", I wouldn't call it sucking up, he just connected IMO.
How over Orton currently is isn't simply down to being tweener. If it was, Kane would've been getting the same reactions for a couple of years now. Orton's goes a lot deeper than that, with the development of his character and such.

Also, Austin DID play to the crowd, so that would make him a 'badass' face.

Oh and one last thing, stop typing in bold to try and make yourself feel self-important. It's annoying to read and isn't exactly easy on eyes at 2am.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
How over Orton currently is isn't simply down to being tweener. If it was, Kane would've been getting the same reactions for a couple of years now. Orton's goes a lot deeper than that, with the development of his character and such.

Also, Austin DID play to the crowd, so that would make him a 'badass' face.

Oh and one last thing, stop typing in bold to try and make yourself feel self-important. It's annoying to read and isn't exactly easy on eyes at 2am.
I've done it for years, not gonna stop now. Sorry, just because you tell me to, doesn't mean I'm gonna do it. ;)

Anyways, Kane is popular, but not as popular as Randy is, which I don't mind, but how do Randy really go deeper? He's that twisted viper, who can strike at any time. If Randy is in WWE 10 years from now, and still has the same gimmick, he will get the same reactions as Kane is getting now.
 

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I've done it for years, not gonna stop now. Sorry, just because you tell me to, doesn't mean I'm gonna do it. ;)

Anyways, Kane is popular, but not as popular as Randy is, which I don't mind, but how do Randy really go deeper? He's that twisted viper, who can strike at any time. If Randy is in WWE 10 years from now, and still has the same gimmick, he will get the same reactions as Kane is getting now.
How can you not only possibly predict that but then use it as a valid point?
 

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What I mean is that Kane has had the same gimmick since he debuted. So of course he's not getting the reactions he got in 1998-2002.
No, it's also down to him being booked as a 'glorified jobber' and not doing anything relevant until this Undertaker storyline. The best parts of his career have been when he's booked strongly.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
No, it's also down to him being booked as a 'glorified jobber' and not doing anything relevant until this Undertaker storyline. The best parts of his career have been when he's booked strongly.
Yes of course, and if Kane really wanted to, he would probably be a 6-time world champ today. But he likes to put people over, and I respect him for that.
 

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Yes of course, and if Kane really wanted to, he would probably be a 6-time world champ today. But he likes to put people over, and I respect him for that.
Yeah so then your point about it being due to his gimmick he has been stale was pretty much wrong then?
 

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Hulk Hogan is the most over person in the history of the business and he was white meat, baby face.

Bang goes the theory.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yeah so then your point about it being due to his gimmick he has been stale was pretty much wrong then?
Well I never found Kane stale. He still ain't, I've always been a fan. I have no problem with how his career has turned out, but he's too good to only have won 2 world titles. Randy Orton is stale though, it's a good gimmick, but it's the wrong person who's playing it.
 
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