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Discussion Starter #1
You get successful like a John Cena..well, Rob Van Dam was super over from mid 2001 to late 2002, and he got buried by Triple H. He didn't win the WWE Championship til 2006

Diamond Dallas Page was over when he first debuted in June 2001 but was squashed by the Undertaker in like 10 minutes.

Shelton Benjamin back in early 2004 really got over when he beat Triple H but the WWE didn't do anything with it except for having Triple H destroy him when they could have done sooo much more!

Christian at his hottest back in mid 2005, he could have had a nice smooth feud with John Cena, and it would have done wonders for him.

It's all WWE's fault with their lack of star power with the exception of Cena, Orton and Punk. They had plenty of chances to get a ton of young talent over but they never did! It still baffles me to this day!

My point is, Triple H was wrong and when you get "over" with the crowd, you all of a sudden some how turn in to a Cena, no..you are stabbed in the back, backstage. It's sad and it really held back a ton of careers.

Well, that's my opinion. I may be wrong, I don't know.
 

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The Fringe Lunatic
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Thats just the way it is. I mean no matter how many signs there are and how many shirts he sells, Zack Ryder will never be midcard let alone main event. Backstage politics are a big thing.
 

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You dont get it.

Punk was asking for John cena's push from day one. He literally means "I am more talented than cena and so I deserve more than cena."

Triple h simply countered "To get the john Cena push in the WWE , you have to get the john cena reaction from the crowd that cena got back in 2003."

Cena in 2003 did not need "Insider references" "break kayfabe" to get over. This is what HHH meant.

Understand the promo first dumbasses. RVD , shelton benjamin were some of the biggest draws right?

Punk SES promos were so boring after jeff quit , how can you say he was over? Does Cody rhodes deserve the "John cena push" just coz of his boring undashing heel promos every week?
 

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HOES MAD
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RVD was unreliable, especially during his WWE title reign three years later.

DDP was getting their in age and wouldn't have been a believable World champion anyways when you had Taker, Austin, and Rock there still.

Benjamin was always going to be a spot monkey and relied on spots later in his career to get over, despite not even winning the Money in the Bank match one time. Plus, he's black.

I'll agree with Christian, though. Even though it was clear WWE had him on midcard autopilot and went to TNA to get better and be better.
 

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Whats BS is that didnt HHH try to bury Booker T and RVD when they were getting popular, over with the crowd(Booker and RVD were the two most popular on RAW in 2002/2003 and what happened to them. They both can draw, but were never given real chances to during that time.

HHH vs Punk is funny, cause Punk is on the rise and HHH is known for burying dudes so....
 

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I just found it funny HHH mentioned Mick Foley. From what has been said, Triple H hated Foley and always talked bad about him to Vince and the rest of creative.
 

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#WoodwardOut #LUHG
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i lol'd at the guys that paul had sent to SD back in the day to "prove themselves".
 

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The wrestling business is all about backstage politics at the end of the day, and honestly, in most businesses too. OP is absolutely right to point this out.
 

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You dont get it.

Punk was asking for John cena's push from day one. He literally means "I am more talented than cena and so I deserve more than cena."

Triple h simply countered "To get the john Cena push in the WWE , you have to get the john cena reaction from the crowd that cena got back in 2003."

Cena in 2003 did not need "Insider references" "break kayfabe" to get over. This is what HHH meant.

Understand the promo first dumbasses. RVD , shelton benjamin were some of the biggest draws right?

Punk SES promos were so boring after jeff quit , how can you say he was over? Does Cody rhodes deserve the "John cena push" just coz of his boring undashing heel promos every week?


Cena's character broke kayfabe just not in the same manner as Punk has. The things Cena was saying back then about Taker on the mic were extremely fresh, and Cena made it work. Cena was dissing Taker about taking all the fame back 8 years ago. HHH saying if you are over with the crowd made the whole thing feel cheap, and that's a kind of line that can kill the company over time. People want to feel the atmosphere of entertainment, not like simple minded fans who don't get the point of why they are at the arena. It's no different than calling wrestling fake. You are not supposed to acknowledge the fans the way he did, and I think it's a point in the direction of an obvious heel turn for HHH.
 

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I just found it funny HHH mentioned Mick Foley. From what has been said, Triple H hated Foley and always talked bad about him to Vince and the rest of creative.
Really? I can't think of anyone who Triple H has wrestled more in his career tbh, they feuded several times
 

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The wrestling business is all about backstage politics at the end of the day, and honestly, in most businesses too. OP is absolutely right to point this out.
Life is about politics. We call it "drama" out in the "real world" though. The WWE is no different than any other workplace on the planet. Do you know how many people I've seen be "held back" because my boss didn't think they had "it." A lot. I've seen people with great skill be laid off because they weren't like by the right people.

It's not WHAT you know... its WHO you know. And the wrestling business is no different.

If you think these backstage politics are maddening you should see some gossip sheets for Broadway actors. Holy shit, the WWE pales in comparison to that.
 

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#FunFact™
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Matt Hardy in 2005, Booker T in 2003, RVD in 2003, CM Punk in 2006. These guys all got huge reactions at that time in their careers. How long did it take them to get to the top? Matt Hardy, never, Booker T, 3 years, RVD, 3 years, CM Punk, 2 years. It's not getting over that gets you on top. It helps, but it's what the guys in the back decide is what is final.
 

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I just think people take what Punk and HHH say way too seriously. I'm sure they believe some of what they say, but most of it is exaggerated or lies. It seems like they are trying to debate each other, but they're really not. Both are still playing characters. Them breaking the fourth wall makes them seem like they are being realistic, but it is just trying to camouflage how big of a work it all is.

By the way things have been set up angle, it seems be going into one of two directions:

1. HHH really is an evil heel mastermind. He stole control of the company from Vince, robbed both Cena and Punk of the title, and plans to beat down Punk with help from his buddies at NOC.

2. He is what Punk claimed he was in June and is simply a dofus who has married into the WWE. Guy screwed up at Summerslam, has let the clearly evil Johnny Ace screw around, put his trust in people who shouldn't be trusted, and has just been tricked into putting his job on the line in a match where Punk can easily cheat to win.
 

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Problem with punk is that his whole argument is based on wrestling being fake.
In real life it wouldn't matter if you are big,small,musclar,lean etc If you win matches and get over boom you are a main event star.
But pro wreslting is fake, and a persons look is a big factor in who is pushed.

Yes foley got the strap, but never the ball to run with.
Same for mysterio same for miz.
Hart and Shawn where just a consequence of the steroid scandal.

Triple H's response was a kayfabe response. A bullshit response because we know to some extent the politics that keep some people down and others at the top.

Punk can't win this argument, because it's not fair since he can't rebuttal the games response without breaking the ultimate kayfabe of them all.
 

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you can get very over with the crowd but if people in the back dont see you as a star then who cares

so hhh said a bunch of BS

what about mvp?
 

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i like Triple H and the way he runs stuff! he is an evil yet smart guy and can please the crowd!
 

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You get successful like a John Cena..well, Rob Van Dam was super over from mid 2001 to late 2002, and he got buried by Triple H. He didn't win the WWE Championship til 2006
If you're suggesting RVD should have won the WWE championship in his first year full-time with the company you are absolutely out of your mind. Besides, he went on to become the first guy ever to hold the WWE and WHC simultaneously. So what if it took him a few years? It took HHH a few years to become a main eventer in WWE too. You should spend a few years paying your dues.


Diamond Dallas Page was over when he first debuted in June 2001 but was squashed by the Undertaker in like 10 minutes.
Maybe the match could have been a little longer, but your crazy if you think DDP should have beat Taker.


Shelton Benjamin back in early 2004 really got over when he beat Triple H but the WWE didn't do anything with it except for having Triple H destroy him when they could have done sooo much more!
The problem is that he was really only over when HHH was jobbing to him. He wasn't over when he was wrestling anyone else.
 

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RVD was unreliable, especially during his WWE title reign three years later
i dont think so! he held his own pretty well
 
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