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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, so we all know that John Cena probably ends up coming out on top in around 90% of his feuds, and that's essentially the reason he gets the bad rap that he does, for example the fact usually at least 30% of the crowd is booing him at all times.
This is pretty much fact at this point, and less of an opinion.

So on the post-Wrestlemania RAW something came to me during that 6 man tag (which was awesome by the way, kudos to Rowan and Harper for proving me wrong about their in ring work, and Sheamus for just owning the crowd hating on him) where the Wyatts were cheered heavily in favour of Cena's team, although they would've been cheered regardless of Cena simply because it's post Wrestlemania.

It lead me to thinking about John Cena's challengers. I can't remember many times he's been in true face vs face feuds, the only few that jump to mind are HBK at Mania 23, Bobby Lashley shortly after and the D-Bry match last Summerslam, arguably against Rock aswell, although I Saw him as a heel there, though i'm not claiming those are the only ones.
This leads me to the point that most of Cenas feuds tend to be with either the big heel in the company at the time (CM Punk, Orton, Batista, etc.) or up and coming heels.

We usually get annoyed because he wins the feuds and belittles the mid-carders we enjoy, a notable recent example is Sandow.

The reaction Wyatt has been getting recently I believe can be attributed to two things, the first is obviously Brays exceptional mic work and ability to tell a story. The second is that he's put in a feud with Cena, which automatically makes him more likeable to anyone who's sick of the Cena Schtick.

Now this feud is still going on, and after tonight, i'm effectively going to say it's 1-1. I don't know who wins the last match in this presumable best of three yet. But essentially, this has lead me to believing that John Cena beats the majority of heels because of the reactions they get against him, the crowd pops for the 'bad guy' over the face of their company; meaning Cena has to win the feud to keep his credibility.
Essentially, I believe heels lose to Cena because they seem to end up getting humungous fan support while they're working against Cena.

Any opinions on this thought, disagreements?
 

· a Stupid Idea from Bad Creative
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I get what you are saying, but its really just a long-winded way of saying:

Heels are pushed to be fed to Cena, b/c he is the face of the company and always needs to look strong, in the minds of WWE management.

And in essence WWE management is right, that heels in pro-wrestling are there for the faces to look strong, but where its wrong with Cena, a feud with the "top face" is not supposed to totally kill your character as it does with Cena, it is supposed to be a good thing for a heel character to feud with the top face, it means they have made it. But with Cena. it has become a "kiss of death" so to speak with a lot of the heels.

This has ALOT to do with Cena NEVER loses, the heel is supposed to actually look strong in the feud and even win a couple matches, before the face finally overcomes. In the Cena feuds, Cena wins the first match and the rematch (if there is even one) and the heel is made out to look like he doesn't even belong in Cena's league. Now as of late I have seen a change in this pattern somewhat (but it was with Orton, who is at a level that needs no rub from Cena) up until this feud with The Wyatts, where Cena won the first match at WM. Hopefully the WWE doesn't have this Cena/Wyatts feud go the route Cena feuds have in the past or there is a danger of the Wyatts ending up like Nexus.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I get what you are saying, but its really just a long-winded way of saying:

Heels are pushed to be fed to Cena, b/c he is the face of the company and always needs to look strong, in the minds of WWE management.

And in essence WWE management is right, that heels in pro-wrestling are there for the faces to look strong, but where its wrong with Cena, a feud with the "top face" is not supposed to totally kill your character as it does with Cena, it is supposed to be a good thing for a heel character to feud with the top face, it means they have made it. With Cena it has become the "kiss of death" in some regards, for most.
Yeah, I really put down more than I intended to, but I wanted to make sure I didn't come off as a troll by essentially saying "Cena beats up the bad guys cos they're more popular than him lol" but I guess that is actually what i'm implying with this.

You hit the nail on the head with that last paragraph, feuding with Cena should be a sign that you're ALMOST there, one more little hurdle and you're in the same class as the big boys. But instead it tends to be the fall of a career, some of which end up stabilizing eventually, others have all but ended as a result. It's really kind of sad that something that should make future stars, ends up hurting them far more often than helping them. The last Heel to get anywhere off a feud with Cena is Sheamus it seems(although Bray does look promising so far.)
 

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I'm really loving the whole Kayfabe surrounding John Cena that they've built up in minds of the Marks. The dude could lose fairly constantly(and he tends to), and these guys still claim he gets fed heels to bury simply because their chosen wrestler that lost to Cena didn't have what it took to get to the next level.

Bray lost to Cena at WM, tell me.. is he buried :p.
Cesaro lost to Cena on Raw, tell me.. is he buried :p.

Cena is a litmus test in the current product. A Gatekeeper. How you look against him and whether your character is ready determines whether or not you're ready for the big time. Whether you lose against him is irrelevant. Sandow got plowed into the dirt because they didn't feel his character would work and fit-in at the top level. So either you retune the package with some minor modifications in the midcard, or you blow him up while you look for a new way to sell him. They chose the latter.

It had nothing to do with John Cena personally. But if you can't look good against the big dog(and once again.. win/loss doesn't matter), pushing you forward is pointless.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm really loving the whole Kayfabe surrounding John Cena that they've built up in minds of the Marks. The dude could lose fairly constantly(and he tends to), and these guys still claim he gets fed heels to bury simply because their chosen wrestler that lost to Cena didn't have what it took to get to the next level.

Bray lost to Cena at WM, tell me.. is he buried :p.
Cesaro lost to Cena on Raw, tell me.. is he buried :p.

Cena is a litmus test in the current product. A Gatekeeper. How you look against him and whether your character is ready determines whether or not you're ready for the big time. Whether you lose against him is irrelevant. Sandow got plowed into the dirt because they didn't feel his character would work and fit-in at the top level. So either you retune the package with some minor modifications in the midcard, or you blow him up while you look for a new way to sell him. They chose the latter.

It had nothing to do with John Cena personally. But if you can't look good against the big dog(and once again.. win/loss doesn't matter), pushing you forward is pointless.
It's fair to say John Cena loses fairly often now (even that is a bit of a stretch, by the way) but for years, he took maybe a single loss that mattered each year. There are an extraordinary amount of heels that've worked against Cena during his almost ten year run as the face of the company, and you can count the heels that actually got over from working with him on one hand.

Edge - Edge got over because of Cena initially, this one I will give to Cena. Edge later himself put this down to making sure his character had no redeemable qualities, essentially meaning the crowd had no choice but to cheer Cena.

CM Punk - CM Punk reached the absolute peak of his popularity when he feuded with Cena to set up the summer of Punk storyline as it's been referred to. Although Cena I don't feel deserves credit for this one, Cena's character is so unlikeable by this point that people sided with Punk over him and Punk ended up turning face almost immediately after simply because people would rather cheer Punk over Cena.

Sheamus - Sheamus got over Cena by winning the WWE belt from him, that's pretty much all there is to it, nothing about Cena actually got Sheamus over, it was more the sheer shock of this random 'rookie' dethroning the superhuman champion.

I'd like to write a list of every single Cena feud where the Heel has come out far worse off than he was going in to it (believe me, there are a LOT coming to mind right now) but that's not really productive.
You need to understand when I say Cena, I mean the character. I am in now way insinuating that the crowd siding with the heels he's against is Cena the persons fault, its the fault of WWE booking throughout the years.
 
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