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SGT. AT ARMS
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The Undertaker without any of the fancy lights, smoke and theatrics? You mean his first three years in the company?

EDIT: Neeeeeevermind, @MonkasaurusRex got there first. Guess I should learn to read.
And which version do you prefer, all the smoke and lighting and pyro? or him just walking out with nothing? which one is more generic? sure he got over due to how he was booked and the character but you have to know once he got the lights going out, the smoke, the pyro etc it added to his character tremendously and made him more of a star.
 

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Honestly, I don't think Kross is ruined. But what does a loss exactly mean in WWE? Take a look at Bobby Lashley in early-mid 2020. Losing to Aleister Black at Mania he kind of had a streak of losses before hand and after until MVP picked him up and repackaged him. Could the same be expected for Kross? Kross is still officially an NXT guy, and is their champion. Give him some time to actually be officially on the Raw roster and he might be treated like a bigger deal. He did lose to Jeff Hardy with his feet on the ropes. Still a dumb booking decision, but it could've been worse.
 

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And which version do you prefer, all the smoke and lighting and pyro? or him just walking out with nothing? which one is more generic? sure he got over due to how he was booked and the character but you have to know once he got the lights going out, the smoke, the pyro etc it added to his character tremendously and made him more of a star.
I've never seen someone deliberately miss a point by as wide a margin as you have. It has nothing to do with which is more "generic" or which people prefer and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that he got over WITHOUT the smoke and mirrors. Don't get me wrong nobody is saying that it didn't add to his character(and even bringing it up is a desperate attempt to move the goal posts) of course it did but it wasn't the REASON he was over. You can enhance an act with flourishes like that but he still has still has to get over beyond them and honestly there's no better way to get over beyond the tricks and frivolities than to not have them. People connected with Undertaker, his act, and his booking not some smoke and blue lights. People act like taking Kross' entrance and girl away ruined him/is going to ruin him, that's not a good sign. It's actually a devastating indictment of his potential as a performer.
 

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Well Kross isn't exactly good and never really has been. Like I said in another post he was the second most interesting guy in a tag team with Moose before Moose figured out who he was as an act and levelled up. That's not high praise because pre crisis Moose was boring as hell at that point. The only thing Kross figured out was that hot girl plus overly contrived entrance and being twice the size of everyone I work with mean people think I'm kind of good.

Also, Jeff Hardy isn't in my top twenty favourite guys in WWE so we can put that "Hardy Fans" shit to bed right now. I'm not even saying it was good booking to have Kross lose like that it just isn't the end of the world. Hell be fine, he'll get to bounce Jeff Hardy around for 7 minutes at SummerSlam and all will be right with the world. I mean that still leaves you with a boring dude who looks about as intimidating as Shelton Benjamin but Shelton can't "mean mug" for close ups so at least Kross can do that.

Dominant, he's supposed to be dominant, what would give anyone that idea? All he does is beat up guys half his size and he doesn't even SQUASH them. If he was dominant and a monster he doesn't go fifteen minutes with Johnny Gargano it goes three and Gargano gets thrown around like a rag doll and gets(if he's lucky) a quick near fall on a roll up and maybe a quickly shrugged off attempt at GarganoEscape that's it. There's this thing that Roddy Piper used to say about overly long promos but it applies to matches too "never take 10 minutes to say what you can in 2." If the goal is to get people to think that Kross is some unbeatable monster his matches go three minutes not fifteen. They didn't even commit fully to making him a dominant monster in NXT and people expected him to dominate guys on the main roster that doesn't make sense at all.
Your opinion is your opinion but if wwe shared it then they shouldve never pushed him to begin. What you dont do is confine someone that you're putting all this time behind to the midcard by giving him such a ridiculous loss in his debut and no, going 50/50 with Hardy aint gonna allow him to bounce back, it just puts him on that level in fans mind.

Theres a reason why they're relying on Cena and goldberg to headline ppvs and fans are begging for Becky when vinces so-called face of the womans division is wrestling. They cant build up their new recruits for shit.
 

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Your opinion is your opinion but if wwe shared it then they shouldve never pushed him to begin. What you dont do is confine someone that you're putting all this time behind to the midcard by giving him such a ridiculous loss in his debut and no, going 50/50 with Hardy aint gonna allow him to bounce back, it just puts him on that level in fans mind.

Theres a reason why they're relying on Cena and goldberg to headline ppvs and fans are begging for Becky when vinces so-called face of the womans division is wrestling. They cant build up their new recruits for shit.
I'm not saying that it was a good decision, I'm just saying that if you believe that one match, one night, and one tiny insignificant moment ruins a person's career then you have no idea what you are talking about. Lots of people don't start out as the top star and have to lose some matches and spend time in the mid card before they are ready for the main event. It doesn't happen instantaneously, more often than not it takes time sometimes a significant amount of time. It took Shawn Michaels four years as a singles act to become WWF Champion and he had some garbage feuds and matches and had to lose titles and matches along the way, Drew when he came back and was called up to the main roster after being NXT Champion and fairly dominant in his run as well wasn't thrown right into the main event nor was he squashing guys right away he was Dolph Ziggler's heavy and time passed and he eventually got his opportunity took his shot and was pushed to the top of the card(a place where he has spent the better part of the last 16 months). Bobby Lashley came back and other than a little bit of almost getting a title shot in 2018 waited 3 years to become a full fledged main event guy and had to feud with guys like Elias who was never anywhere near a World Title in the interim. If the company likes the guy and people.seem.tombe of the impression that they do he will get opportunities. Night on is not the end of the world just because he lost a match and doesn't have his stripper looking gf fondling him.
 

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WWE booking 101


I really have to hand it to you guys who continue to give WWE a chance week after week. They literally brainwash their audience by dangling and booking guys close enough to their full potential only to pull the plug almost every time. It keeps some of you hooked like crack and they don't have to pay all of their top guys main event money at the same time. Just keep them close to their potential so their fans tune in to see the seesaw up and down booking.

It's actually funny how predictably bad this company is. As a fan, you're already pre-programmed to anticipate them fucking something up. Yet people wanna make jokes and call out TNA/Impact every chance they get for trivial shit.

I used to feel bad for fans of the WWE. I used to be a huge fan and never thought I would walk away. I now just laugh and appreciate when they do something dumb just so I can read the meltdowns. They still produce some good stuff once in a while but so does every other company. They' don't deserve my support anymore and haven't gotten it for a long time.

Laughable
 

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So you've never seen wrestling pre-1994 have you? Undertaker didn't have the fancy lights and smoke until YEARS into his time in WWE and he managed to get over pretty damn well and not look like a generic CAW from WWF Warzone.

If you NEED a fancy entrance to get over you aren't really over. Take a look at the biggest stars Cena, Hogan, Rock, Austin, Flair, Savage, Lesnar, etc. All had pretty damn basic entrances and that's because they didn't need the tricks. They were just dudes who got over.
Undertaker had a bunch of bells and whistles pre-match to get him over even pre 19994. The bell tolling, Paul Bearer with the urn, putting jobbers in bodybags after the match. Now imagine if you took away all of that, and just had Mark Calaway come out to the ring.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that some guys have gimmicks that get over, and other guys can be embellished version of themselves to get over. Over is over, whether it's a gimmick or yourself.
 

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Bubba Ray was PISSED! 😂

Oh you mean he looks generic if you take away all the cool shit from his entrance and have him just walk? well who the fuck wouldn't look generic if that was done to them? If they took away Undertakers fancy lights and smoke and just had him walk without any of his theatrics i'm sure he'd look very generic too.
Survey says...no.
104611
 

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Oh you mean he looks generic if you take away all the cool shit from his entrance and have him just walk? well who the fuck wouldn't look generic if that was done to them? If they took away Undertakers fancy lights and smoke and just had him walk without any of his theatrics i'm sure he'd look very generic too.
No he looks fucking generic even with his entrance. Look at his main event entrance there’s nothing special about it. OG Undertaker never had smokes and light, his music and presence alone made him unique. Even if you take all the fancy stuff away, Undertaker still has presence. He’s close to 7ft as well. American Badass Undertaker was him in real life. Heck Lesnar doesn’t need an entrance and he still stands out.

There is nothing imposing about Kross, he’s just another guy in the roster. In NXT when he’s surround by skinny fat midgets he stands out in the small venue, but when in the big stage he has no presence.
 
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All this feud is going to do is get Jeff Hardy over, lol. Either the fans will get behind him because they'll be pissed at Kross squashing him, or they actually have Jeff go over and give him some momentum. WWE has something on their hands with this feud, but it isn't with Kross, its with Jeff.

Friendly reminder that Jeff Hardy made his debut on WWEs TV in 1994 and is only 43. Absolutely insane.
Jeff Hardy is already over
 

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No he looks fucking generic even with his entrance. Look at his main event entrance there’s nothing special about it. OG Undertaker never had smokes and light, his music and presence alone made him unique. Even if you take all the fancy stuff away, Undertaker still has presence. He’s close to 7ft as well. American Badass Undertaker was him in real life. Heck Lesnar doesn’t need an entrance and he still stands out.

There is nothing imposing about Kross, he’s just another guy in the roster. In NXT when he’s surround by skinny fat midgets he stands out in the small venue, but when in the big stage he has no presence.

Undertaker, Lesnar, Cena, Angle pretty much any top guy really didn't need a flashy entrance even prime Triple H only had flashing lights it wasn't some huge production.
 

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I'm not really a fan of the guy and for me he's a mid card act at best but come on even I know to make him lose on his debut match against a washed up Jeff Hardy is a terrible booking decision and that's why WWE are losing their viewers.
 

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So they had to retape a promo for Kross because the fans kept chanting hardy during it for the aug 3rd episode of nxt
Should have left it in. They could have used it as a means to enrage him further before TakeOver. Nobody in WWE knows how to book for shit. Especially when the transition is between RAW/SD and NXT. It's just pretend the other doesn't exist on both ends and hope to God everyone else does too. You can at least kind of get away with it on RAW/SD because they have a significant portion of their audience that doesn't pay any attention to NXT the other way around doesn't work because as evidenced by the crowd's reaction and the need to reshoot the angle shows that a more than sizeable portion of NXT's fanbase also watch the main shows.
 
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