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Young Bucks have been in this "will they or won't they" turn heel space for like a year, but I think they have always been technically face in AEW until now.
 

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Indeed. This is their first heel turn in AEW, everything before it was a tease. They played the shades of grey role for a while last year and flirted with a turn, but the FTR feud reestablished they were babyfaces.

AEW has abandoned the clear babyface and heel roles in some cases.

To use D&D terminology, WWE would have Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful Good, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil and Lawful Evil. AEW has all of those plus Lawful Neutral, True Neutral and Chaotic Neutral.

Death Triangle for example are somewhere in the Neutral zone and depending on their opponents' alignment, their attitude shifts.

You can argue the pros and cons of this, but it is what it is.
 

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Speaking of Big Show, they really weren't lying when they said he was mainly being brought in to be a commentator on YouTube. He's only been on Dynamite for like a minute total. (although, this minute did kind of snowball to ruin Christian's debut for a lot of people)
 

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Lol, get that D&D shit out of pro-wrestling. All due respect to people who play, those are just different forms of being a face or a heel. That game is designed to be intricate.

Personalities can be complex without being complicated. Heels used to be much more varied and interesting back in the day. Back when guys used to work like a different type of heel when situation called. All that has been lost for weird mood-swings and alignment changes, haha.
 

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Indeed. This is their first heel turn in AEW, everything before it was a tease. They played the shades of grey role for a while last year and flirted with a turn, but the FTR feud reestablished they were babyfaces.

AEW has abandoned the clear babyface and heel roles in some cases.

To use D&D terminology, WWE would have Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful Good, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil and Lawful Evil. AEW has all of those plus Lawful Neutral, True Neutral and Chaotic Neutral.

Death Triangle for example are somewhere in the Neutral zone and depending on their opponents' alignment, their attitude shifts.

You can argue the pros and cons of this, but it is what it is.
They were kicking announcers in the face last year and you're talking about they weren't heels come on man lol. That's not a shade of gray, that's a heel.

It's okay to just say AEW is flip flopping folks alignment randomly versus this reach of the writing is good enough to have neutral alignment characters. Death Triangle were clearly just presented as faces when Pac came back to reunite the Lucha Brothers, then now Pentagon randomly went heel on Cody and the whole group back to heel tonight.
 

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There’s no “shades of grey” for a character that super kicks tony schiavone.
Exactly lol, there's a limit you can work tweener before it's just clear heel territory. Even when Rock would fuck with Michael Cole or The Coach he'd joke on them. But he wasn't giving them Rock Bottoms and throwing money at them like they were strippers
 

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I've barely ever heard anyone say 'The Young Bucks turned heel in 2020". To turn heel officially, it has to be clear cut and they'd ultimately start entering through the other tunnel (watch them come through it next week). That's why I said they flirted with the idea and AEW has thrown a lot of red herrings out (such as Cody teasing a heel turn and new Horsemen-style group) and strayed from the old tropes of pro wrestling storytelling.

While the Bucks were teasing a return to Bullet Club roots, they were in a program with full-on heels FTR and cast as the babyfaces. After superkicking Marvez, they did an interview on the 9/23 Dynamite where they literally said they never should have attacked Marvez, but had been going through a lot of shit (relationship with friends, losing tag title opportunities) and Matt said they would do better. They continued to be abrasive, but ultimately stayed towards the babyface side.

They flirted with the turn but they never turned heel, that was made pretty clear since they were feuding with FTR at the same time and FTR were the heels.

I stand by the shades of grey thing. AEW has some traditional babyfaces (ie. Best Friends) and heels (ie. MJF), but since the very start have strayed away from the traditional roles with a number of wrestlers. Whether it works or not, alignments for some are flexible and attempt to mirror real life where people can be good and can be bad.

This has been their ethos since the start:

 

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At least Big Show has some basic level of wrestling ability to go with his turns. Nothing these flabby balding gymnasts have done thus far has made me interested in them.
 

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I've barely ever heard anyone say 'The Young Bucks turned heel in 2020". To turn heel officially, it has to be clear cut and they'd ultimately start entering through the other tunnel (watch them come through it next week). That's why I said they flirted with the idea and AEW has thrown a lot of red herrings out (such as Cody teasing a heel turn and new Horsemen-style group) and strayed from the old tropes of pro wrestling storytelling.

While the Bucks were teasing a return to Bullet Club roots, they were in a program with full-on heels FTR and cast as the babyfaces. After superkicking Marvez, they did an interview on the 9/23 Dynamite where they literally said they never should have attacked Marvez, but had been going through a lot of shit (relationship with friends, losing tag title opportunities) and Matt said they would do better. They continued to be abrasive, but ultimately stayed towards the babyface side.

They flirted with the turn but they never turned heel, that was made pretty clear since they were feuding with FTR at the same time and FTR were the heels.

I stand by the shades of grey thing. AEW has some traditional babyfaces (ie. Best Friends) and heels (ie. MJF), but since the very start have strayed away from the traditional roles with a number of wrestlers. Whether it works or not, alignments for some are flexible and attempt to mirror real life where people can be good and can be bad.

This has been their ethos since the start:

The problem with this is it's inconsistent.

On one hand you're saying FTR we're heels for attacking The Rock & Roll Express and The Bucks

On another hand you're saying the Bucks attacking announcers and interviewers are starting the brawl at the number picking thing aren't heels.

But yet on another hand your putting more weight on which tunnel the enter from, versus actual actions like kicking an interviewer in the face lol.

AEW doesn't have shades of gray yet at least. The whole we don't want to have typical heels and faces sounds good in promotion and selling yourself to fans who think WWE insults their intelligence. But the reality is they go with very clear cut heel and face roles, minus the few flip floppers on the roster. There's no shades of gray when IC comes out and apologizes. There's no shades of gray with QT Marshalls turn. There's no shades of gray in the Bucks joining with Moxley.

The majority things presented as shades of gray and not traditional face and heel are the bad or stupid things. Something like Page & Omega and The Bucks from around last year is shades of gray and not traditional heel and face roles. But Archer and Death Triangle randomly being all over the place isn't complex character work, it's utility character work. They put them wherever they want as a fill in.
 

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The plain truth is that they fucked up the FTR build by also putting the Bucks in the Hangman/Kenny build.
One build needed the Bucks to be clear cut babyfaces and the other needed them to flirt with Kenny Omega growing bullshit. Those two needs clashed hard and eventually they had to revert and try to wrap some bullshit excuse to try to give a clear babyface motive for the FTR match with the "if we lose we stop challenging for it" thing.

I hope they stop with the wishy-washy nonsense now. The Bucks are better and have most interesting challengers as heels. They really can't garner sympathy to themselves. They have a manic annoying sidekick energy to them.
 

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I know what AEW are trying to do but it doesn't work. It either doesn't make sense or is too nuanced. Attacking referees and an announcer is heel. I suppose it could be argued their kicks are lightweight, but then how the hell are winning matches lol. Attacking 63 year old Tony is just full on heel.

They could have portrayed their anger and aggression by having them stop after smashing a phone. A believable action a good script i.e announcer can get mileage out of. But Khan had to go into Russo territory and do the erratic melodrama.

At least they've rectified their role. Still, doesn't show Tony Khan as booker of the year imo.
 

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I've barely ever heard anyone say 'The Young Bucks turned heel in 2020". To turn heel officially, it has to be clear cut and they'd ultimately start entering through the other tunnel (watch them come through it next week). That's why I said they flirted with the idea and AEW has thrown a lot of red herrings out (such as Cody teasing a heel turn and new Horsemen-style group) and strayed from the old tropes of pro wrestling storytelling.

While the Bucks were teasing a return to Bullet Club roots, they were in a program with full-on heels FTR and cast as the babyfaces. After superkicking Marvez, they did an interview on the 9/23 Dynamite where they literally said they never should have attacked Marvez, but had been going through a lot of shit (relationship with friends, losing tag title opportunities) and Matt said they would do better. They continued to be abrasive, but ultimately stayed towards the babyface side.

They flirted with the turn but they never turned heel, that was made pretty clear since they were feuding with FTR at the same time and FTR were the heels.

I stand by the shades of grey thing. AEW has some traditional babyfaces (ie. Best Friends) and heels (ie. MJF), but since the very start have strayed away from the traditional roles with a number of wrestlers. Whether it works or not, alignments for some are flexible and attempt to mirror real life where people can be good and can be bad.

This has been their ethos since the start:

Come on now, you are better than this. “To turn heel officially?” Lol, who made that rule. And I heard LOTS of people saying it last year. Come on.
 
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